Over Carbonation or Infection?

[Adk_Mailman]

I know this topic has been discussed here so I apologize for bringing it up again but this is driving me nuts and honestly I am ready to throw in the towel and just go back to drinking good beer and let others brew it. I have had the last 3 batches over carbonate in the bottles. But now I am thinking that infection is the more likely cause. I think this because I am quite sure I am not guilty of bottling too soon or using too much sugar.

For example my last batch was an Ipa that started out at 1.067 and finished at 1.013 and spent 28 days in the fermenter. I bottled 4.5 gallons. According to the calculator I needed 106 grams of corn sugar and that is exactly what I used. This particular batch is an absolute gusher at day 10. Honestly I don't know how they are not bottle bombs. To me that has to be more than just a little over carbonation.

So now I am looking at my cleaning and sanitizing. I use pbw for cleaning and starsan to sanitize. And thought I was doing a good job. I pay close attention to everything. I don't go crazy with taking readings. And if I dry hop I use a hop bag which I boil for 10 minutes and then spray with starsan before dropping it in the fermenter. I am very thorough about cleaning and sanitizing my bottles too.

It was suggested to me to throw out all plastic items just to eliminate that. So that is my immediate plan. I did take a close look at my bottling wand and noticed several hairline cracks. Is it possible this is the culprit? I have read that having cracks or scratches can be prone to attracting nasty little things. I am really hoping this is the problem. I should also note that I am using the Catalyst conical fermenter so I bottle directly from that. Thanks

 

[jurgenph]

how did you prime? are ALL bottles over carbed?

if anything, i'd say you didn't use enough sugar

how do the gushers taste?

try taking a gravity reading on a sample from one of them, to see is they are still sitting at around 1.013


J.

 

[Bigfly]

I had a problem like yours on several batches. It took me a while but I found there was a problem with my hydrometer. To eliminate it as a problem check it in water.

 

[Adk_Mailman]

I used the solution of corn sugar and boiling water. Boiled for about 8 minutes or so.

3.8 ounces wouldn't be enough for 4.5 gallon ipa?

I didn't bother tasting. By the time it was done gushing there was nothing left.

I didn't take a reading. I will try that.

 

[Adk_Mailman]

I had a problem like yours on several batches. It took me a while but I found there was a problem with my hydrometer. To eliminate it as a problem check it in water.

Well I am actually using a refractometer. And it is calibrated.

 

[Adk_Mailman]

Ok just took a reading and I am 1.002. And yes all bottles are over carbed. Forgot to answer that.

 

[GilSwillBasementBrews]

Well if you were at 1.013 at bottling and now at 1.002 you either a) caught an infection when bottling or, b) your beer wasn't fully finished fermenting when bottled. Given the time you let it do it's thing I'd tend to lean towards picking up something bottling or something in the bottles you filled.

 

[It_Hurts_When_IPA]

All I can think is that you may be getting stuck fermentations and your bottling process is churning your brew just enough to bring the leftover yeast back into activity, if that's even possible.
If not then you may have something airborne lurking in your home; 3 in a row is more than a coincidence.

 

[jurgenph]

Well I am actually using a refractometer. And it is calibrated.

is it safe to assume that your OG reading comes straight from the refractomerter, and all other readings post fermentation were converted measurements using a calculator?


J.

 

[Bigfly]

In my case I was getting very low finish readings. I found that the glue holding the paper scale inside the hydrometer let go allowing it to slip down and my readings were off 20 points.

 

[Adk_Mailman]

is it safe to assume that your OG reading comes straight from the refractomerter, and all other readings post fermentation were converted measurements using a calculator?


J.

That is correct.

 

[GrimBrewer]

What yeast are you using and at what temp did you ferment and then bottle?

I've not heard of any "normal" IPA yeast, us-05, or notty, going all the way to 1.002.

Try and just barely opening one bottle so that it can release gas without actually spewing out any foam and then let it sit for a while to degas. Otherwise open it in a big container and wait for the foam to settle so you can actually taste the beer and see if it taste "off".

 

[Adk_Mailman]

What yeast are you using and at what temp did you ferment and then bottle?

I've not heard of any "normal" IPA yeast, us-05, or notty, going all the way to 1.002.

Try and just barely opening one bottle so that it can release gas without actually spewing out any foam and then let it sit for a while to degas. Otherwise open it in a big container and wait for the foam to settle so you can actually taste the beer and see if it taste "off".

It was Omega Yeast British Ale I Yeast. I was at 68 degrees give or take a degree for the entire fermentation. Bottled at the same temp. I saw 1.002 after bottling. But I suppose that could be a miscalculation. I will try a reading again with another bottle.

I did try the degas thing with a previous batch that was over carbonated but I found myself doing that 4-5 times before it poured normally.It didn't taste too bad But it gets kinda frustrating. I will give it a shot with this one.

 

[GrimBrewer]

If the beer didnt taste off....then it just sounds like u over carbing. How long are you fermenting?

What was FG of your previous beers?

 

[eadavis80]

I had some gusher stouts. I tried the de-gassing thing where you slightly pop the cap, listen for the noise and then stop. I did it 3-4 times per day over 4-5 days and they were still gushers. It was more work than it was worth and while the beer tasted fine, to me it wasn't worth keeping so I dumped them. That batch had a stalled ferment of 1.030, but it was there for several days prior to bottling after it was in the fermenter for three weeks. However, when I took a gravity reading of the gusher it was down to where it should have been prior to bottling - 1.013, so there was an infection. However, if you've had this on three straight batches I'd guess some sort of bottle problem or bottling wand problem. Believe me - I know it SUCKS to have overcarbonated beer. Given your priming sugar amounts, I'd guess wand/bucket/siphon might be the issue. Good luck.

 

[GrimBrewer]

That batch had a stalled ferment of 1.030, but it was there for several days prior to bottling after it was in the fermenter for three weeks. However, when I took a gravity reading of the gusher it was down to where it should have been prior to bottling - 1.013, so there was an infection.

No that just sounds like your yeast went back to work. You bottling and moving the beer woke it up.

 

[eadavis80]

I don't know - it was in primary for 2 weeks and secondary for another so it had already been moved once with no change.

 

[ElmCityWobblyPops]

Honestly, I would say you are using a little too much priming sugar. 106grams is about 3.73oz, that is a little high for 4.5gallons.

I am only using a about 3.35-3.5oz for 5.5 gallons, and they come out decently carbed (2.3vols).

If I followed your amounts, for 5.5, I would be looking at about 4.5oz (127grams), which would be far too much. I did an oktoberfest last year, and instead of following my gut, followed some online listing of what the vols should be, it said almost 5oz for 5.5 gallons, and I cut it back to 4.5oz, and I still got gushers.

For 4.5 gallons, you would want about 2.86 oz or about 81grams for a standard 2.3vols.

 

[Kee]

Honestly, I would say you are using a little too much priming sugar. 106grams is about 3.73oz, that is a little high for 4.5gallons.

I am only using a about 3.35-3.5oz for 5.5 gallons, and they come out decently carbed (2.3vols).

If I followed your amounts, for 5.5, I would be looking at about 4.5oz (127grams), which would be far too much. I did an oktoberfest last year, and instead of following my gut, followed some online listing of what the vols should be, it said almost 5oz for 5.5 gallons, and I cut it back to 4.5oz, and I still got gushers.

For 4.5 gallons, you would want about 2.86 oz or about 81grams for a standard 2.3vols.

That's not enough sugar for a gusher, assuming the OP is confident that the volume of beer and weight of sugar is accurate. I always carbonate over 3 vols without problem, using much more sugar than the OP.

 

[Paulaner]

Get rid of the malt that you are using now and try using new malt and look up Fusarium which causes gushing in beer. Hopefully it's as simple as that.

 

[Agtronic]

There is no way this is an overpriming issue. 1) That is nowhere near enough sugar to cause gushers. 2) The FG is 1.002. Normal beer yeasts will not finish that low with an average gravity wort.

It really does sound like you're picking up something during bottling.

I can't say how I would go about ridding your system of such a bug, as it has never happened to me. But I would focus on that for sure!

Hope this helps in some small way.

 

[lawyerjim]

Omega Yeast British Ale I Yeast attenuates 70-80%.

I do not believe it could possibly go from 1.067 to 1.002 with that yeast and no infection.

 

[Riggs401]

Where are you storing these beers during carb? You should be around 60-70 degrees and out of direct sunlight. Basement floors are great in the summer.

If you use a plastic fermenter and you use an abrasive sponge, it may be putting scratches that can harbor bacteria. I use a glass car boy to take this out of the equation. It is also super important that you get a good mix with the corn sugar and beer. I used to pour the -sanitized- corn sugar solution into the bottling bucket, then siphon the beer into it so it whirlpools the mixture. If you don't have a bottling bucket... save your money and invest in kegging.

Also, you should be using a bottling brush to clean your bottles with pbw.

I also get those micro cracks in my siphons, but never had an issue.

 

[MizzouFermentationScience]

I don't trust the sugar readings. IMO 99% of infection freak outs on this site are false and you sound like you understand sanitation. I don't have experience correcting refrac readings with alcohol- day one I was taught that's a no no so I don't do it. I figure that I've used a hydrometer just about 100,000 times and it has never let me down, but even refrac before fermentation I treat as a ballpark estimate as there are many variables.
Try cooling down the bottles to 32 F before you crack them and give them a taste.

 

[SteveofPA]

Check your bottling wand, make sure you tear it appart and look for old trub that may have stuck in the spring. It happens. Make up a batch of sanitizer and put it in a spray bottle. Spray everything your touch and constantly spray your hands. Spray the fermentor lid before you open it. Spray everything. I ahve been brewing 15 years and only had one batch go bad in all that time. I produce about 9 batches a year.

 

[ElmCityWobblyPops]

That's not enough sugar for a gusher, assuming the OP is confident that the volume of beer and weight of sugar is accurate. I always carbonate over 3 vols without problem, using much more sugar than the OP.

Just going from personal experience. If I use much more then 3.5 oz for a 5.5gal batch of a beer at normal FG, I get gushers. My Oktoberfest was a FG of 1.015 (OG 1.069), I think it was the Tasty Brew bottle priming calculator, that said 5.3oz of corn sugar for my volume. And I cut that down to 4.5 (because I thought it too much), and still ended up with gushers. No infections or anything like that to cause it. Crack one and it takes about 20 mins to pour, you can pour a half glass and the head will slowly grow to fill the glass. Beer still tastes great, but you don't want to be in a hurry with it.

If he is using nearly as much sugar as I am, but in a gallon less beer, would be a good cause of it, but yes, getting down to 1.002, likely something else in conjunction.

 

[joelbear5]

Well I am actually using a refractometer. And it is calibrated.

I would suggest never using a refractometer after any alcohol has been produced. Stick to the hydrometer after fermentation.

 

[balrog]

@Adk_Mailman, my gushers were cause by crud in bottling bucket's spigot. Do you have one and have you disassembled to fully clean/sanitize?

 

[Riggs401]

I don't trust the sugar readings. IMO 99% of infection freak outs on this site are false and you sound like you understand sanitation. I don't have experience correcting refrac readings with alcohol- day one I was taught that's a no no so I don't do it. I figure that I've used a hydrometer just about 100,000 times and it has never let me down, but even refrac before fermentation I treat as a ballpark estimate as there are many variables.
Try cooling down the bottles to 32 F before you crack them and give them a taste.

Isn't 32 degrees freezing? From my experience, beers explode at this temp.

 

[lawyerjim]

Isn't 32 degrees freezing? From my experience, beers explode at this temp.

If it has alcohol in it, it won't freeze at 32.