out of curiosity, fusel alcohol influencing

[bracconiere]

let's say i liked the taste of isobutyl alcohol, more then amyl alcohol....or any specific preference towards any particular fusel alcohol....

would there be a way to drive the brewing process more towards a specific one?

 

[day_trippr]

Running an ale yeast well over its recommended fermentation temperature range would be a good start, but if you're really looking for a fusel bomb, take a read of this, as there are many fermentation factors that can be optimized (or, in the other direction for most folks, minimized) for fusel production. Not sure about tuning for specific fusels, that's not something that's come up often here

Cheers!

 

[bracconiere]

good paper, i'm thinking leucine and proline are going in with cider right now......


(this is an expermiment to figure out why beer makes me feel better than hard alcohol, and if it's pssible to increase it)

 

[RPh_Guy]

Beer is more hydrating than harder stuff.

 

[Vale71]

Look here for the relative metabolic pathway (I picked isobutanol as an example):

http://www.ymdb.ca/compounds/YMDB00573

Then read up on the referenced literature (a subscription will probably be required) and try and figure out a way of influencing yeast metabolism. If you're successful you could even get published yourself.

 

[bracconiere]

Beer is more hydrating than harder stuff.

not sure if that's the case. i've tried booze watered down to the same ABV, still not the same as natural. i think some of these esters could be very weak opiates, kinda like the difference between a glass of milk or water....

 

[Vale71]

Beer has a diuretic index of about 1.2, meaning you'll "dispose of" 1.2 volumes of water for every volume of beer you drink. That's hardly what I would call hydrating.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Beer has a diuretic index of about 1.2, meaning you'll "dispose of" 1.2 volumes of water for every volume of beer you drink. That's hardly what I would call hydrating.

What's the diuretic index of a shot of whiskey?

Would you prefer I said "less dehydrating"?

 

[bracconiere]

i know beer is hydrating....i drink 8%, and after about 3-4 my urine runs clear...so it must be hydrating, just not why i think it feels better then watered down booze...

 

[hopjuice_71]

Thought you might be interested in this: https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/103/3/717/4564598.

TLDR - if you are already appropriately hydrated, drinking coffee or beer is no better or worse than drinking water for your hydration state.

Cheers

 

[Lefou]

Beer is more hydrating than harder stuff.

Precisely the reason why I drink the ultra-light lawnmower lager during the hot summer.
A nicely hopped lager or Pils will work well. I typically drop a handful of ice into a mug with slice of lemon or lime and it works extremely well with much less buzz.

 

[Vale71]

What's the diuretic index of a shot of whiskey?

Would you prefer I said "less dehydrating"?

Anything that makes you pee more water than what you took in drinking it is dehydrating, more so since a standard serving of whiskey is (hopefully) much smaller than a standard serving of beer. To claim this is the reason why beer will not give you a headache as easily as hard liquor is a bit misleading, wouldn't you agree?

 

[Vale71]

By the way, a friend of mine swears that he only gets a headache from beer on tap and not from bottled beer. His explanation: kegged beer has more CO2 than bottled beer and this is what is giving him a headache. I tried explaining to him that it's actually the other way around but he still wouldn't change his mind...

 

[bracconiere]

Thought you might be interested in this: https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/103/3/717/4564598.

TLDR - if you are already appropriately hydrated, drinking coffee or beer is no better or worse than drinking water for your hydration state.

Cheers

But drinking a lot of it must be hydrating. because when i get up on a day off and start drinking at 7am, my urine is dark yellow and smells....by 10am, it's clear and has no odor. isn't that the layman's hydration test?

 

[bracconiere]

Anything that makes you pee more water than what you took in drinking it is dehydrating, more so since a standard serving of whiskey is (hopefully) much smaller than a standard serving of beer. To claim this is the reason why beer will not give you a headache as easily as hard liquor is a bit misleading, wouldn't you agree?

i did say i drink my booze watered down to the same strength as my beer....

By the way, a friend of mine swears that he only gets a headache from beer on tap and not from bottled beer. His explanation: kegged beer has more CO2 than bottled beer and this is what is giving him a headache. I tried explaining to him that it's actually the other way around but he still wouldn't change his mind...

sounds like your friend has demons talking to him, in his head....lol (in other words, placebo effect)

edit: thankfully i'm one of the 20% that don't get hangovers...off of anything, i do remember some jailhouse wine the dope cook made, i turned it down. but it probably would have giving me a hangover...

 

[Vale71]

What's the diuretic index of a shot of whiskey?

Would you prefer I said "less dehydrating"?

This study clearly shows that beer is, compared to wine and spirits, definitely the most dehydrating drink and by a large margin.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5537780/

There is no final word on what the causes of a hangover might be, but it's almost certain it's a combination of factors and dehydration (which is always associated with alcohol consumption) is certainly among them. That's why it's advised to drink copious amounts of water when drinking large amounts of beer, but then you'll be spending most of the evening relieving yourself which is certainly not everybody's idea of a good time...

 

[davidabcd]

prefer I said "less dehydrating"?

I think you've hit the nail on the head.

 

[davidabcd]

I don't get an actual headache if I drink too much but I do feel crappy, in general, the next day. Could have been the whiskey. Might have been the gin. Could have been....

 

[bracconiere]

I don't believe studies....And to get this back on track, and laugh about my hobbies post...

that's what a ester of isobutanol and glycine an amino acid in protein would look like....is there some way i can naturally increase the content...(damn and i was trying to type better)

edit: if you can still find weaker than morphine opiates on the internet...they have the secondary at beta at a terminal, and a heavy carbon source about there, usually more...

edit #2: and isobutanol, a fussel alcohol produced from leucine digestion from yeast, and glycine would be present along with a bunch more amino acids...in acidic conditions, not sure how all the water would throw off the equilibrium reaction, but still....

 

[hopjuice_71]

This study clearly shows that beer is, compared to wine and spirits, definitely the most dehydrating drink and by a large margin.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5537780/

No, it doesn't show that. Urine output is not equated with dehydration. From the abstract: "AB [alcoholic beer] and NAB [non-alcoholic beer] did not differ at any time point (effect size: −0.02 mL p > 0.70). ..... In conclusion, only moderate amounts of stronger alcoholic beverages, such as wine and spirits, resulted in a short and small diuretic effect in elderly men." From the first paragraph of the discussion: "The main finding of this study is that moderate amounts of stronger alcoholic beverages (≥13.5%; wine and distilled beverages) provoke a short-term and small diuretic effect, whereas weaker alcoholic beverages, such as beer (5%), do not."

 

[RPh_Guy]

Yeah, looks like @Vale71 didn't even read the study he linked.

"AB [alcoholic beer] and NAB [non-alcoholic beer] resulted in a significantly lower urine osmolality and higher urine output compared to the other beverage, which indicates a better hydration status. This is most likely due to the larger fluid volume intake with AB and NAB consumption. This finding is also in line with previous research that shows that moderate amounts of low-strength alcoholic beverages can result in a net gain of water"


Whether the hydration issue is related to @bracconiere 's feelings or not, I don't know.

 

[bracconiere]

Whether the hydration issue is related to @bracconiere 's feelings or not, I don't know.

At least someone's still considering my feelings! lol, and like i said i don't trust studies, they quote them all the time on the news, and knew beer was hydrating via a piss test...But i've tried drinking booze watered down, 2 cups 65%, watered down to a full gallon. Which would be about 8%, same as my Brüt beer....Still doesn't feel good like a few beers. I'm not talking like shooting heroin here, just like how a glass milk makes you feel better than a glass of water difference....

 

[RPh_Guy]

But i've tried drinking booze watered down, 2 cups 65%, watered down to a full gallon. Which would be about 8% same as my Brüt beer....

It was a good idea to try that.
However, it's impossible to eliminate bias in this situation, so your experiment may be questionable. Our brains can easily play tricks on us.

Hops have a mild psychotropic effect. Maybe that's the underlying reason for the difference (if there is one)?
Cheap spirits may also have higher levels of toxins like methanol or aldehydes.

 

[bracconiere]

It was a good idea to try that.
However, it's impossible to eliminate bias in this situation, so your experiment may be questionable. Our brains can easily play tricks on us.

Hops have a mild psychotropic effect. Maybe that's the underlying reason for the difference (if there is one)?
Cheap spirits may also have higher levels of toxins like methanol or aldehydes.

Nah, Nah, Nah, I'm not a stoner...and only lightly hop my beer. I've both smoked weed and popped morphine pills...And, I am semi capable of thinking for myself and can usually find truth in the usual mind games....

(and my watered down booze is homemade),(so probably loaded with toxins! )

i added leucine and proline to my batch of cider, and i added leucine and glycine to my last boil of beer....I'll report back if it's more beery or not....

 

[RPh_Guy]

I am semi capable of thinking for myself and can usually find truth in the usual mind games

Bias can't be overcome without blinding, and blinding isn't possible in this situation.

 

[bracconiere]

Bias can't be overcome without blinding, and blinding isn't possible in this situation.

Not necessarily, i'll put my homebrew up against any dope cook, or crack dealer's drugs.....And yes, i'm special, at least that's what they tell me! lol

 

[bracconiere]

i don't know how to add photos to edits...

they also seem to have a ass sex fetish....

 

[RPh_Guy]

i don't know how to add photos to edits...

Click "more options" and it'll let you upload files

 

[bracconiere]

Click "more options" and it'll let you upload files

Thanks, I'll try that for the next time.

 

[bracconiere]

well i'm drinking some cider that i added leucine powder, and proline powder too.....it's kicking my ass.....trying leucine and alanine for my beer now....maybe i'll be able to not get any credit for inventing the next big thing, like Brüt IPA, or warm fermented beer!

edit: actually, i think this cider was glycine and leucine.....