Out dated yeast

[mwitt0780]

I just noticed that the the White Labs liquid yeast package we bought last week was past it's "Best if used by" date by nearly a month. Should we ask to exchange at our HBS or is yeast still usable for a honey porter?

 

[breez7]

If you just bought it I would def. be pissed. But I'm sure if you make a starter it will be fine.

 

[mwitt0780]

Bought it 4 days ago. Guess I learned to check the dates. Thanks for the advice.

 

[theredben]

If it was that old, I would have just asked for 1/2 off. Still good yeast, just not as good as fresh. Luckily when I buy liquid yeast (rarely) my LHBS has it usually <10 days old.

 

[mwitt0780]

All I saw was a use by date. Besides asking, how would you know how old the yeast is? Additionally how do i know how old the lme is?

 

[chaserchap]

Yeah, I'd just make a starter. That way you know if it's viable. If not, I'd go complain. If so, well, I'd still mention it.

 

[Gunfighter04]

I bought a 1 month past WLP380 last week at 1/2 off and just did a starter. about 24hrs in it came to life so I pitched it and my beer is happily brewing away in the primary now. I'd just have a backup plan. I generally keep a package of Nottingham in the fridge in case. I agree about the full price though, but I wouldn't give up on the yeast. Not like there's a self destruct mechanism in the vial.

 

[unionrdr]

All I saw was a use by date. Besides asking, how would you know how old the yeast is? Additionally how do i know how old the lme is?

My Cooper's cans have dot matrix printing on the bottom (the end you have to open). My last one says "09:10 best before 07/01/12 lager" as an example. Made September 2010,best if used by July 1st 2012. Yeast packets usually have a "julienne date" stamped on them. That basically means the date the yeast was packaged. For instance,the Coopers ale yeast I got with the can of LME had "32809" on it. That meant it was packaged on the 328th day of 2009. Def made a starter for that one! But I'll make starters from now on. It's really easy to do,& makes the ferment start faster & way stronger!

 

[boo boo]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/going-against-grain-dry-yeast-starters-129999/

 

[unionrdr]

^^^Good read! Thanx,jfowler1! Vindication at last! it supports my theory about dry yeast pitching. You at least want the yeast to be healthy. I say,be fruitful & multiply! I just make a starter out of 1 1/2C of hot water & 1/4C SDME. Put in a quick check thermometer,& cover with plastic wrap. When it comes down to the right temp for the yeast,pitch & stir,recover. Since it takes my electric stove so long to boil without a lid,even extract brewing takes 3-3 1/2 hours,which is plenty of time for the yeast starter to get nice & creamy. I pitched it into my last batch,for example,at 7:35pm. By 7:10am,the krausen was up against the lid of the fermenter! 'nuff said. :rockin: ***PS***6 days into primary(Sunday 2/27),I took a hydro sample,1.020,down from 1.044. Dark amber/copper tone now light golden/blush of amber. Improved malt flavor starting to show,Kent Golding flavor/aroma of a bit of lemon grass (the "grassy" smell mention by BJCP) with undertones of floral & fruity flavor & aroma as well. Most importantly,no off flavors whatsoever! So much for the old theory of starting dry yeast making it "unhealthy". Now that I've made an old dry Cooper's ale yeast (32809!) good again.I'm thinking of trying to wash it & save it. I knew those plastic fancy deli meat containers would come in handy!***

 

[mwitt0780]

We started the out of date White Labs yeast Saturday night around 7:00 o'clock by boiling a pint of water and mixing in 1/2 cup of light DME, cooling the mixture down to 80 F and adding the chilled liquid yeast. The mixture was moved to a sanitized flask and capped with an air lock. It sat in my basement under a paper bag for 24 hours without even a peep.

We added the starter to our wort last night at 8:00 o'clock and I haven't seen any life yet. While milling grains at the HBS I bought two packages of S-04 dry yeast just in case. Any thoughts on what if anything went wrong and whether we should pitch the dry yeast in three days?

 

[chaserchap]

You put the chilled yeast on the 80*F mixture? You're supposed to have gradual temp changes. I'm not a yeast expert, but that may have shocked them or something. I'd watch it for the three days and if you don't have anything pitch your dry yeast.

 

[0110x011]

Yeah, adding the chilled yeast to 80* wort isn't a good idea. The thermal shock stalls the yeast and produces some off flavors, attenuation issues, etc. You might not have any issues, but buying the us-04 was a good idea.

 

[unionrdr]

Maybe you should've brought the chilled yeast pack up to room temp 1st. Mine was in the top of the Cooper's can since the 328th day of 09! But I kept the LME can (with yeast sachet) & the bag of SDME in a dark corner of the pantry on the 2nd highest shelf. And I let my starter come down to 75F (about 24C) in a 1/2L Pyrex measuring cup (1 1/2C starter)on the counter for the 3 1/2 hours it took too get to the pitching point. Less shock that way,I guess? But it does seem like a lot of that yeast was dead,because it took 1 to 1 1/2 hours to start showing signs of life! At pitching time 3 hours & 35 mins later,I took off the plastic wrap,used my long handled spoon to stir it all up again,& dumped it in with a lil stiring to incorporate. Wanna get it all out of the measuring cup,ya know. Want all the cells I can get out of a small starter. I figured 1 1/2 cups was plenty for an OG of 1.044. Boy,was it ever!

 

[mwitt0780]

Yeah I realized that adding the refrigerated liquid yeast to 80F wort wasn't a great right after I did it. I'm guessing the S-04 should be brought to room temperature before pitching? Not planning on making a starter for it.

 

[unionrdr]

I did it with a Cooper's dry yeast,& will wash & reuse that. But yeah,always bring it up to room temp 1st. Don't let a lil screw up put off of making starters. Hell,if I can do it so well the 1st time out,imagine what you young folks can do!?

 

[mwitt0780]

From the nature of my questions you'd assume this was our first batch but we seem to find new ways to screw this up.

Imagine my delight after getting home from work and finding a foamed up air lock. This situation lends itself to asking whats the best way to handle an over foamed 5 gallon carboy. Should we be switching to clean sanitized air locks or leave it go? Guess the yeast was still good but we'll take a gravity reading before switching to the secondary.

 

[chaserchap]

Run a blow off tube into a Container of sanitized water. At least til your fermentation cools off, then switch back.