Order of Importance of Ingredient Upgrade

[tpitman]

Using something like a prehopped LME kit as a baseline, in what order would one make changes in ingredients for improvement in quality? For instance, would using liquid yeast strains make a more marked improvement in quality, say as opposed to moving to all grain? Does all grain make a significant improvement in actual quality, aside from the obvious advantage of being able to tailor the mix of grain to taste? Would using hops or hop pellets make more of a difference in quality, combined with an LME, versus using the liquid yeast versus a dry packet in the same LME?
I'm looking for a sequential path to quality, from a cheap kit brew forward, that doesn't entail running out and just buying a bunch of stuff without knowing the order of importance and what will make the biggest differences, while acknowledging that "quality" is subjective. Thanks.

 

[TTB-J]

I think you should go from pre-hopped kits to extract with specialty grain, it uses all the same equipment but will give you some great flavor upgrades from the simple steeping process you'll do with the grains. Try your hand at a liquid yeast starter, there are instructions for it all over these forums. Use the Mr. Malty pitching rate calculator to determine the right size of starter-pitching the right amount of healthy yeast is the single biggest "upgrade" you can make to your system.

All of that being said, temp control during fermentation is probably going to be a bigger factor in the overall quality of your brew. Take those healthy yeast and keep them at the right temperature, and they can make the lousiest kit taste pretty good!

 

[jsweet]

Generally speaking, the next two things you'd want to do are switch to using hops/hop pellets, and do some recipes that call for steeping specialty grains. You can actually get quite a variety of character out of all-extract brewing by using the specialty grains. After that, depending on what styles you like, you might consider experimenting with things like dry-hopping or adding other flavorings after primary fermentation.

As far as dry vs. liquid yeast, the difference in quality is not going to matter much right now (and some dispute that there even is a significant difference in quality), so use whichever you feel more comfortable with. The one huge advantage of liquid yeast is that it comes in a hell of a lot more styles. I am a n00b too, and I use Safale S-05 (a dry yeast) for pretty much everything, unless the style dictates otherwise, and then I buy the appropriate liquid yeast.

I am an extract brewer only, so anything I say about AG should be taken with a "grain" of salt (or barley?) There is some controversy over whether AG inherently tastes better than extract, with some saying that there are extract-y flavors and a telltale darkening in color that can't be avoided, and others swearing they have made award-winning beers with extract. What can't be denied, though, is that you get a lot more control over the final product when you are doing the mash yourself.

From what I have read, AG is not all that hard, but it requires a little more equipment and a little more time. I mostly am resisting making the jump because of the time aspect -- with two-year-old and three-month-old sons, even getting the 2 1/2 to 3 consecutive hours I need to prepare, brew, and cleanup from an extract brewing session can be hard to come by. (I was going to brew a DFH 60 clone last night, but the toddler just wouldn't go to sleep and by the time I was alone and ready to brew, it was 9:30PM and I decided to just can it for the night... I had already started sanitizing and everything! )

If you 1) are pretty good at cooking/following directions, 2) have the time, and 3) have the burning desire, then you can switch to AG at pretty much any time. If you aren't sure about any of the three, you'll be happy with extract for a long long time to come.

 

[unionrdr]

Well,here's what I did for an idea. I did the cooper's OS lager can I got with my micro brew kit with their brewing sugar to establish a baseline. Then,got an old can of OS lager,to which I added a 3lb bag of Munton's plain extra light DME. I did a hop tea with 1oz Kent Golding for 15mins, then proceeded as usual with cooper's kits. With the exception being a 1 1/2C starter for the old yeast. 4th week in primary I dry hopped with 1oz Willamette hops. The 1st brew was golden with a slight amber blush. Light malty fruitiness,with a little bittering. The 2nd brew was the color of Salvator doppel bock,with a buiscotti-like maltiness. Earthy/fruity flavor with lemon grass & spiciness under that at 3 weeks in the bottle. At 7 weeks or so,head/carbonation still very good,but hop flavors down to a sort of brightness,bittering at the end. Malt sort of a light toasty quality,so still pretty good. Closer to a doppel bock at that point.
This time,I did a 2.5G boil,all 3 lbs of Munton's plain light DME at the beginning of the boil. 1oz of US Perle hops at 20 mins,.5oz of Czech Saaz at 10mins. 10min steep of .5oz of Saaz,then added 1 cooper's OS draught can after that. Chilled down to 70F,added to fermenter with top off water. Pored all very briskly,stiring for a few mins to a froth. Got an OG of 1.046,pitched re-hydrated cooper's ale yeast to see hoe re-hydrating goes. It'll be in primary 2 weeks Sunday.
Next batch,I'm going to do basically the same,but add some steeping grains to the bill for flavor,color,etc. I think this was a pretty good progression. I'm learning a lot this way...

 

[Patirck]

I would tend to agree with the notion of going from pre hopped kits to:

Extract, pellet or leaf hops, dry or liquid yeast (start with dry unless you are making a wheat beer or belgian).

Partial mash - steeping grains and then the rest as extract above

All grain.

Before I would do any of this I would get the fermentation process down - get a cheapo chest freezer and an external temperature controller. You can find the chest freezer on craigs list for $50 or so - the temp controller (I use a ranco but there are others) are $50 - $70.

You can make some fine beer with extract (especially dry extract). There is so much more to deal with than mashing grains - boil process, chilling process, pitching the right amount of yeast. I think I could have waited on the all grain for a while and made some great beer with extract. I switch on my third batch and I am still learning.

 

[jwplessner]

Yep, move on to a kit with specialty grains and pellet hops and you will need no new equipment or knowledge for a huge rise in diversity in what you can brew. The instructions in higher quality kits give you what you need.

After that, if you want to read up a bit, go ahead and learn about hop calculations, grain calculations, and mash calculations. With a basic understanding of those topics, you can customize a very inexpensive mini mash process (you may just need a three dollar paint straining bag) to suit your equipment. That simple addition can give you a steep rise in process control as well as another rise in diversity.

 

[integrator]

Like mentioned above, I'd go extract with steeping grains. It's a pretty easy step.

Also, the fermenter comment was spot on. Fermentation is overlooked quite a bit. Controlling your fermentation temperature can have huge benefits. Sure a basement or closet might work, but I've tasted a lot of off flavors. I'm at a lhbs a lot, and a good numbers of beers people bring in have off flavors from fermenting too high/temp swings.

 

[steppenwolph]

As far as dry vs. liquid yeast, the difference in quality is not going to matter much right now (and some dispute that there even is a significant difference in quality), so use whichever you feel more comfortable with. The one huge advantage of liquid yeast is that it comes in a hell of a lot more styles. I am a n00b too, and I use Safale S-05 (a dry yeast) for pretty much everything, unless the style dictates otherwise, and then I buy the appropriate liquid yeast.

+1 on this. Unless there is a specific yeast variety that you want for a specific purpose that is only available in liquid form, dry yeast is the way to go. Its cheaper and more convenient. Pitch two packets of dry (for the price of one liquid yeast smack pack) in place of a starter and save yourself that hassle. Using the same variety of liquid yeast vs. the exact same dry yeast will make zero difference in the final beer. How much yeast you pitch will make a difference. Make sure to aerate well. I use dry yeast all the time. It is great stuff.

+1 on the extracts with steeping grains. You can get a great beer this way. Try a BIAB mini-mash or partial mash if you are feeling ambitious, with no more equipment than you have now, save for a large mash bag.

Getting away from the pre-hopped extracts and adding fresh hops (pellet or whole) will make a great upgrade in the quality of your beer. If you have a big enough boil kettle, a full volume boil is a great upgrade.

Thats enough of my $0.02 worth for now. Have fun with your brewing!

Cheers!