Onion/Garlic Hops

Homebrew Talk

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Pehlman17

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Mar 24, 2022
Messages
325
Reaction score
1,077
I’ve been trying to stay away from the drunken rants and go for a more sober nuanced approach to thoughts about modern beer. So here’s one for fun.

I hear quite often in interviews with brewers of hoppy beer these days the avoidance of “OG”, the dreaded onion/garlic aroma that can come from hops. I understand generally wanting to avoid these flavors in exchange for more of the fruit aromatics which brewers want to feature in hoppy beers. But from a culinary perspective it’s got me wondering. Does avoiding the OG altogether lead to a more one-dimensional beer? I want to say, yes it might. Can the OG thing, in the right amounts, contribute an umami quality to ipa? I think of mirepoix in cooking. Or things like fish sauce, and anchovies. While not the stars of most dishes, they play a pivotal role in adding depth, complexity, and richness. So I’m wondering when in the past few years I find myself disappointed with IPAs that drink more like a mimosa, could bringing back a little of the OG pungency be a good thing? I would think perhaps it might be worth investigating at least.
 
So, whenever I've looked at the hop profile wheels, I've always wondered what "onion/garlic" was since I have never seen a hop actually have anything in that field and I also couldn't remember ever tasting a beer that tasted anything like garlic or onions. I have looked it up online in the past, mainly with people saying "X hop sometimes tastes like garlic or onions" and it's always a hop that I've had before but never thought it tasted anything like garlic or onions.

Tonight, though, I tried a beer that is like an overload of garlic and onions. It's by a Korean brewery, so everything on the can is in Korean, and the imported label is in Japanese, which just says "hops" in the ingredients, so I have no idea what the hops are. Looking online people describe the hops as "citrus" and "tropical." I get citrus, but I don't get any tropical at all. The fact that no one online seems to mention garlic and onions makes me wonder if this even is garlic and onion hops and might just be something that spoiled inside of it. I wouldn't say it tastes "bad," but it's definitely not the kind of flavor profile I want from hops. I love citrus. I love tropical fruits. Spice. Earthy. Herbal. Floral. Pine. Berry. Stone fruit. Resinous. Fruit. And on and on. I love all those flavors. And while I love onions and garlic in food, I'm not a big fan of this onion and garlic flavor in hops. And this is coming from someone who puts massive amounts of garlic and onions in food I make and who has gone to a garlic-specialized restaurant multiple times where they have garlic cocktails and essentially garlic in every food they have and in most drinks they have (the wine they have does not include garlic, but their cocktails all have garlic in them). To be honest, this is kind of a perplexing flavor since it's so different from any other hop flavor I've ever had. Like, really? Garlic and onions... naturally... in hops?
 
Summit is the one that comes to mind. when it first came out they raved about 'tangerine' flavor... turns out about half the people taste tangerine. the other half of us get onion/beef broth... this also happens with other varieties of hops too. I think it comes down to taste buds are different and when some of these hops are harvested and how they are handled after the fact.
 
Centennial hops can have a downside that is all about garlic and onions. I was not a fan 😳
You've gotten garlic and onions from Centennial? It's one of my favorite hops, though I've never done a single hop version of it, mainly using it for bittering and flavor, typically paired with hops like Citra, Cascade, Columbus, and so on. Although I've always heard Centennial associated with "grapefruit," which I definitely get, I get way more flavors of pine and floral, though some grapefruit and lemon. I've never gotten anything like garlic or onions from it, though. Is it a quality of certain hops when they go bad? Like, if you use hops that haven't been stored properly?
 
Last edited:
I definitely by no means want those flavors to dominate. And I could be totally off in terms of what I’m actually picturing. I guess a better comparison would be like smelling really good weed. When there are a little bit of those stinky funky undertones it makes it so much more inviting and interesting. And the word “dank” does get thrown around with some IPAs. I certainly don’t want a beer to smell like straight-up onions, and maybe I’m totally looking in the wrong place. But I do generally find the IPA’s that have a touch of that weedy funk along with the fruit to be overall more complex and interesting, to my palate at least.
 
That Centennial can exhibit garlic/onion shouldn't be a revelation, there's something inherent to that strain makes them prone to those characters if left on the bines too long - or in "bad years" - that results in excessive DMTS (Dimethyl trisulfide). I grew Centennial for seven years and one year that was crazy hot at the wrong time the Centennial were simply unusable while the Chinook and Cascade were fabulous 🤷‍♀️

Cheers!
 
That Centennial can exhibit garlic/onion shouldn't be a revelation, there's something inherent to that strain makes them prone to those characters if left on the bines too long - or in "bad years" - that results in excessive DMTS (Dimethyl trisulfide). I grew Centennial for seven years and one year that was crazy hot at the wrong time the Centennial were simply unusable while the Chinook and Cascade were fabulous 🤷‍♀️

Cheers!
Guess I've lucked out in the beers I've brewed with Centennial so far. Or is it that hop growers are less likely to sell that year's harvest if it comes out like that?

I have gotten the "dank" "weed-like" character with Centennial a few times, which is something I don't dislike at all but is different from onion or garlic, albeit closer to it than its typical character I'm familiar with (and honestly I'd prefer it to taste how I expect and not like weed).

If I have tasted a commercial beer with that character (besides the one I mentioned that I had today that I don't know what hops it contained but had massive garlic and onion flavor), I imagine that character might have been disguised by other hops.
 
I definitely by no means want those flavors to dominate. And I could be totally off in terms of what I’m actually picturing. I guess a better comparison would be like smelling really good weed. When there are a little bit of those stinky funky undertones it makes it so much more inviting and interesting. And the word “dank” does get thrown around with some IPAs. I certainly don’t want a beer to smell like straight-up onions, and maybe I’m totally looking in the wrong place. But I do generally find the IPA’s that have a touch of that weedy funk along with the fruit to be overall more complex and interesting, to my palate at least.


I like a danky smelling hoppy PA or IPA, but I've associated that smell with weed vs onions/garlic. I agree with MaxStout as the onion/garlic thing seems more like a sign of spoilage. I threw out some older Crystal hops recently that seemed to had an cheesy (cheesy in a bad way) smell to it.

On the flip side of smells, I've always like that light struck "skunky" smell of a Heinken, yet I can drive passed a dead skunk that got ran over and just about vomit. Maybe's there is such a thing as too much of a good thing (if you call skunky smelling beer a good thing)?

In other news, I've been married for 20 years..........................
 
I like a danky smelling hoppy PA or IPA, but I've associated that smell with weed vs onions/garlic. I agree with MaxStout as the onion/garlic thing seems more like a sign of spoilage. I threw out some older Crystal hops recently that seemed to had an cheesy (cheesy in a bad way) smell to it.

On the flip side of smells, I've always like that light struck "skunky" smell of a Heinken, yet I can drive passed a dead skunk that got ran over and just about vomit. Maybe's there is such a thing as too much of a good thing (if you call skunky smelling beer a good thing)?

In other news, I've been married for 20 years..........................
Congrats!

Man, I got a 6 pack of Anderson Valley Hop Ottin probably like 10 years ago that smelled like straight-up Parmesan. I had always heard about the cheesy hop thing and boy did this one have it. (Barf). Something I hope I never have to experience again. That’s certainly not the sort of funk I’m looking for.
 
Congrats!

Man, I got a 6 pack of Anderson Valley Hop Ottin probably like 10 years ago that smelled like straight-up Parmesan. I had always heard about the cheesy hop thing and boy did this one have it. (Barf). Something I hope I never have to experience again. That’s certainly not the sort of funk I’m looking for.

Nailed it with the Parmesan reference. That's what mine smelled like but didn't think of it as Parmesan until just now.



Thank you for the congrats.
 
Could have been New Zealand WALHALLA HOPS citrus, garlic, grassy & herbal description fits?
They are on the same side of the pond to S. Korea.
 
Guess I've lucked out in the beers I've brewed with Centennial so far.

I don't dislike at all but is different from onion or garlic, albeit closer to it than its typical character I'm familiar with (and honestly I'd prefer it to taste how I expect and not like weed).
I too really enjoy Centennial. I’m sure a big part of it is how prevalent it was in many of the IPA’s of the mid-2000’s so now it’s nostalgic.

As far as the weed-like character you’re probably right that it’s different than the onion-garlic thing, and that’s sort of what I’m trying to unpack here. I don’t wanna say “skunky” because that’s already associated with lightstruck beers. I know that flavor well and it’s definitely not what I mean.

The only other words I can think of would be “savory” or “umami”. I recall people used to talk a lot about Simcoe being “catty” back in the day, or more recently Mosiac was often called “diesel-like”. Again, these are not flavors and aromas that I want front and center by any means. But I wonder if the tiniest faintest hint of these real pungent qualities could balance out the overt fruitiness of modern hops. Sort of how some suggest the faintest whiff of sulfur dioxide (think burnt match, NOT rotten egg) can be appropriate in some classic lagers. While not a flavor anyone thinks they like or would ever want to dominate can add an interesting little something.
 
I know what you mean. The two flavor categories on the hop wheel that I have never seen as appealing are "onion/garlic" and "catty/cat urine." Now, for the former, I love onions and garlic, but I typically haven't wanted them in my beer. For the latter, I've obviously never tasted cat urine, but I know what it seems like, and it's also not something I want in my beer. The thing, though, is that the "catty" character can actually be pleasant in very small amounts. And I think part of it is that a lot of people see overlap with the "dank" character and "catty" character. I'm not at all a fan of weed, but I tend to really like dank hops. Just like 100 IBU beers were insanely popular about 10 years ago, "dank" beers were ridiculously popular... what, 5 years ago?

You might also have a point about Centennial hops. I first got into craft beers around 2003, I think, and I first started brewing in 2014, and at both times Centennial was in a lot of my favorite pale ales and IPAs. Hell, it's still really popular today. I had a commercial beer last night that was Centennial, Citra, and Simcoe. Great combination. It's definitely nowhere near as prevalent now as it was 10 or 20 years ago, though. Modern hops like Strata really are extremely fruity. I love hops across the spectrum, but the onion/garlic one is something I'm not really a fan of.

The skunky character of lightstruck beers is definitely different from either catty hops or onion/garlic hops, but it does kind of remind me of certain aspects of those flavors.
 
Since beer is basically food I try and look at it from a culinary perspective.

Think miso in a caramel, cheddar in an apple pie, saffron in a citrus cake, egg yolks in custards, etc. None of these savory ingredients are the star of the show but they do such an important job of laying a foundation for the primary flavors. Without them these things could become so one dimensional. They add a subtle yet complex bass frequency that really fills out the low end. (Sorry, mixed metaphors I know). To me, that’s what these pungent, dank/catty, pine/resin, diesel, whatever characteristics can maybe do. Maybe they’d fill out the palate and really help create a full spectrum of flavor while still letting all the fruit be the star of the show.
 
Last edited:
Sorry, had to chime in again. I'm enjoying another STS Pils from Russian River and I must say, this beer is straight up skunky, and I love it. Not sure if its sulfur from yeast or a combo with the hops but there is a definite funk going on here. And I absolutely love it. I know its not an IPA but this again reminds me that even something seemingly unpleasant can actually make for a great and enticing beer experience.

Edit: Ok, I'll say it... a good lager should smell a tad farty. And at this point so should a good IPA. If your IPA doesn't smell like at least some of the fruit went bad, then what are you even doing?
 
Last edited:
Sorry, had to chime in again. I'm enjoying another STS Pils from Russian River and I must say, this beer is straight up skunky, and I love it. Not sure if its sulfur from yeast or a combo with the hops but there is a definite funk going on here. And I absolutely love it. I know its not an IPA but this again reminds me that even something seemingly unpleasant can actually make for a great and enticing beer experience.
Flavor is an entirely subjective thing after all. I absolute love the "funk" that Brettanomyces gives to beer and wine. Lots of people hate it. In fact, a lot of wine makers will vehemently deny there's any Brettanomyces in wines they make, even when those wines gets good marks specifically because of the characteristics given by the slight effects of Brett on them.

A famous example is how it took Heineken a long time to get from Europe to North America and, because they used green bottles, it would get exposed to a lot of heat and light in the process, so the beer was really skunky by the time it reached people there, resulting in Heineken in Europe and North America tasting nothing alike. But a lot of people loved that skunky lightstruck flavor, so Heineken started purposefully skunking the beer that went to North America, but leaving the Heineken in Europe the same. A lot of people specifically don't like Heineken in the US because of that, but most people who drink it specifically like it because of that.
 
It’s funny. It’s not lightstruck funk. It’s sort of just a general stink. It brings me back to my original point where I’m wondering if a touch of green onion might be nice. I’ve never been a sour guy but I’ve always loved Brettanomyces. I definitely have an appreciation for flavors that aren’t traditional. I’m the same way with wine. I love old world Italian wine. There’s just such an earthy character that’s hard to replicate anywhere else.
 
Sorry, had to chime in again. I'm enjoying another STS Pils from Russian River and I must say, this beer is straight up skunky, and I love it. Not sure if its sulfur from yeast or a combo with the hops but there is a definite funk going on here. And I absolutely love it. I know its not an IPA but this again reminds me that even something seemingly unpleasant can actually make for a great and enticing beer experience.

Edit: Ok, I'll say it... a good lager should smell a tad farty. And at this point so should a good IPA. If your IPA doesn't smell like at least some of the fruit went bad, then what are you even doing?

Russian River Brewing Co.’s STS Pils​


Ingredients
9.5 lbs. (4.3 kg) Dingemans Pilsner malt
4.8 oz. (136 g) acidulated malt
3.4 AAU Aramis hops (first wort hop) (0.4 oz./11 g at 8.5% alpha acids)
3.4 AAU Aramis hops (60 min.) (0.4 oz./11 g at 8.5% alpha acids)
2.8 AAU Hallertau Mittelfrüh hops (15 min.) (0.4 oz./11 g at 4% alpha acids)
0.8 oz. (23 g) Aramis hops (whirlpool)
1.5 oz. (43 g) Aramis hops (dry hop)
0.75 oz. (21 g) Hallertau Mittelfrüh hops (dry hop)
Imperial Yeast L17 (Harvest), White Labs WLP680 (Munich Lager), Wyeast 2352 (Munich II), or SafLager W-34/70
¾ cup corn sugar (if priming)

Step by step
Use a lager water profile with an eye towards being low in minerals. Russian River starts with reverse osmosis water and adds a little calcium chloride and even less gypsum. Target a mash pH of 5.35–5.45 and utilize a thin mash. Conduct a step mash beginning at 132 °F (56 °C) for 20 minutes. Heat to 142 °F (61 °C) and hold for 20 minutes. Heat to 152 °F (67 °C) and hold for 30 minutes. Heat to 162 °F (72 °C) and hold for 20 minutes. Ensure conversion is complete and conduct a 170 °F (77 °C) mash out step, if desired. Vorlauf until your wort is clear, then run off into the kettle. Sparge the grains with 168 °F (76 °C) water to obtain 6 gallons (23 L) of wort (or more, depending on your evaporation rate).

Boil for 60 minutes following the hopping schedule. After the boil is complete, add the whirlpool hop additions and stir the wort briskly to form a whirlpool, then cover and let stand for 15 minutes. Russian River adjusts the pH in the whirlpool down to 5.0–5.1.

Chill the wort to 50 °F (10 °C). Aerate the wort if using a liquid yeast strain, pitch the yeast, and add yeast nutrient if desired. Ferment at 52 °F (11 °C) until final gravity is achieved and let the beer sit for one to two additional days.

If possible, remove yeast from fermenter and reduce temperature to 42 °F (6 °C) before adding the dry-hop additions. If able, after three more days, dump the cone of your fermenter to remove as much dry hops and yeast as possible. Drop temperature to 32 °F (0 °C), or as close as you’re able, and let sit two additional weeks. Bottle or keg and force carbonate as usual.
 
Just wanted to suggest that some of those flavors get eliminated when I Dip Hop. In short, when the wort comes to a boil (in a 5G batch), throw your 0 min/hopstand/whirlpool hops into the fermenter with 1 - 1 1/2qts of the hot wort. Seal it up with a bubbler on top and let it soak until you put the cooled wort on top. It drives off and changes a lot of those aromas to more pleasant fruit.
 
This thread makes me think of a Doctor Who episode in which the Doctor takes Rose to the distant future and she tries a drink:
"what flavour is it?"
"hmm.. kinda beef."
Being 57 (I think), I remember how bland and boring the old-folks idea of 'good' food was when I was a kid. I suspect if something like a modern day hazy IPA had been attempted in the 60's or early 70's it would have recieved mainstream rejection or at best, been categorized as "a drink for your little-lady to have with her Virginia Slim". Tastes change over time and now you've got me wondering if in 10-20 years, that OG will find its way to being called 'palatable' or perhaps even desirable in a beer brewed with Bovril: "Beef with Onions & Garlic". Sounds horrifying to me now, but if you had sggested a fruity hazy IPA to me even in the mid-80's I'd probably have wretched at the thought.
Hmmm.....
 
This thread makes me think of a Doctor Who episode in which the Doctor takes Rose to the distant future and she tries a drink:
"what flavour is it?"
"hmm.. kinda beef."
Being 57 (I think), I remember how bland and boring the old-folks idea of 'good' food was when I was a kid. I suspect if something like a modern day hazy IPA had been attempted in the 60's or early 70's it would have recieved mainstream rejection or at best, been categorized as "a drink for your little-lady to have with her Virginia Slim". Tastes change over time and now you've got me wondering if in 10-20 years, that OG will find its way to being called 'palatable' or perhaps even desirable in a beer brewed with Bovril: "Beef with Onions & Garlic". Sounds horrifying to me now, but if you had sggested a fruity hazy IPA to me even in the mid-80's I'd probably have wretched at the thought.
Hmmm.....

I think you're right. At one point sour beers were viewed as throw away batches. Now they're the rage with some brewers. Northern Brewer had a bacon flavored red ale kit at one point. Remember those? I love bacon, but I don't know if I'd be willing to brew a bacon flavored beer though. I'd definitely try it if someone else brewed it.
 
I think you're right. At one point sour beers were viewed as throw away batches. Now they're the rage with some brewers. Northern Brewer had a bacon flavored red ale kit at one point. Remember those? I love bacon, but I don't know if I'd be willing to brew a bacon flavored beer though. I'd definitely try it if someone else brewed it.
I've actually brewed my "breakfast brown," a brown ale with maple syrup and bacon, twice and want to try brewing it again (though I probably would have to make the bacon extract here myself instead of buying one that was already made - the main thing that's tough would be getting rid of the fat). Bacon in a beer is the kind of thing that before you taste it, it doesn't sound that good, but it's actually amazing. I remember when that whole "adding bacon to things that normally don't have bacon" trend started, such as with bacon on donuts, I didn't think it sounded good, but bacon on donuts are actually pretty good. There still are bacon on donuts and bacon in beers nowadays, but they're way less common (not that bacon in beers were ever super common in the first place).
 
Back
Top