Omega OYL-405 Helio Gazer

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Curious if anyone has tried this strain yet, I don't really brew IPAs but I'd like to try it in some Belgian styles. Does it require ample hops to produce said thiols?
Wonder what it would bring to a Saison if I co-pitched with a traditional strain.

HELIO GAZER ALE​

With enhanced Thiolized® capabilities, Helio Gazer™ boosts thiol biotransformation to free thiols 200x above sensory threshold, creating a supernova of tropical, passion fruit flavors and aromas. Even in the juiciest of IPAs, expect robust guava and New Zealand sauvignon blanc-like aromas along with the beloved sturdy haziness of its parent strain, British Ale V. Pair with mash hopping, grape-derived products or regional malt and hops for peak thiols.
 

SanPancho

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as noted its derived/modified from british V. wont give you anything like a belgian or saison. per lance at omega if you were to do a pitch of the GMO yeast first, then pitch your secondary "ester" yeast at around 2/3 or 3/4 attenuation you should leave the thiolizer plenty of time to do its work. but how much of the belgian/saison character you get is hard to say.

you can do a big mash hop to generate plenty of thiol precursors. and use a bunch of very lightly kilned malts, which seem to retain more precursors vs darker kilning/cyrstal. wheat/oats dont provide any at all though, so a saison base might be lacking a bit.

maybe splitting batches and then combining them might work well. maybe give it an extra few weeks for the saison to keep chewing and maybe develop some more esters.
 

505-Brewer

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Sounds like an interesting experiment. I dig Saisons and the LA3 yeast (which i think helio is derived from).
 
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Jayjay1976
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After some further reading and an article in the latest issue of BYO on English milds, I'm leaning toward trying Helio Gazer in that style. It is after all derived from an English ale strain. Thoughts?
 

SanPancho

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might as well give it a go. if you dont have enough thiol precursors in there for the yeast to boost, you should still have a nice english mild. if you get a bunch in there (mash hop, lightly kilned malts, little/no dry hop) and the yeast unlocks them and boost thiols you'll have an english mild with notes of something extra, depending on which thiol precursors wind up in your wort- white wine, grapefruit, passionfruit, gooseberry, black currant, citrus.

some of them seem like an odd combo to english mild (wine, passionfruit), but some sound good (black currant, grapefruit).

there's only one way to find out!
 
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might as well give it a go. if you dont have enough thiol precursors in there for the yeast to boost, you should still have a nice english mild. if you get a bunch in there (mash hop, lightly kilned malts, little/no dry hop) and the yeast unlocks them and boost thiols you'll have an english mild with notes of something extra, depending on which thiol precursors wind up in your wort- white wine, grapefruit, passionfruit, gooseberry, black currant, citrus.

some of them seem like an odd combo to english mild (wine, passionfruit), but some sound good (black currant, grapefruit).

there's only one way to find out!
I'm a big fan of marmalade notes in a good English mild, which as I understand it are thiols, hopefully this will boost that aspect since I'll be mashing for higher attenuation.
Also, as @Bobby_M mentioned, I'll mash with some Saaz, one of my favorites and I think it will go well with EKG mid and late in the boil.
 

Apmarand

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I made a 5L starter with OYL405 last night and that MF left a 1L pool of yeast all around my stir plate. It’s a beast. I could smell it coming down the stairs. Pitching into a NEIPA today
 

Off Balance Brewing

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I haven't used helio but I did a pale ale with mostly mash hop and cosmic. Turned out very fruity punch, tropical guava. Not sure that's what you're looking for.
 

TBA

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What fermentation temperatures are people using with this yeast?
 

Apmarand

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I ran it 66 to 74F over 4 days, finished at 72 for the rest. No off flavors yet - just racked today
 

TBA

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Hope I didn’t screw up to bad. When cooling down I just took one quick reading with my Thermopen and it was 73. I cut the pump off(I recirculate ice water in my immersion chiller) and started to drain into the fermentation keg. I poured the yeast in and put it in the chest freezer. I set up the pi to upload the tilt data. It is then I see the temp is 86! The tilt was in there a good 10 minutes so it should have been accurate. The yeast was at ambient, around 82 so hopefully didn’t shock it too much. Cooling it down to 68-70.

I am making just a small test batch to see what the yeast brings. Batch is just 2 gallons and used 4 lb 2 row, 0.5 wheat and 0.5 Maris otter. NO HOPS! I was out of oats.

Not sure how great it will be but it will be a good starter. Going to spit the yeast cake and try out some recipes.
 

Apmarand

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My pre DH taste was fantastic - “almost” better than after racking. If you plan to dry hop, I’d recommend pulling back on the T90s and going no higher than 1.5oz/gal.
 

TBA

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This batch I am going no hops at all. Want to see what the yeast does. I guess I can add keg hops after I taste it.
 

TBA

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No mash hops. Just going to see what the malt and yeast do. I did use mash hops with Cosmic punch in the past.
 

Apmarand

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Let us know how it turns out. I haven’t tried omitting mash hops on thiolized yeast.

I had a similar issue in the past with pitching too hot with LA3 (77F) but didn’t notice anything unusual after bringing it down quickly to 67F. I use a conical so ymmv
 
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TBA

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Just really didn't want another variable in this test...
 

Anderson7000

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I ran it 66 to 74F over 4 days, finished at 72 for the rest. No off flavors yet - just racked today
Any chance you would share your recipe? I'm thinking of making a NEIPA with OYL-405, and I have some citra and mosaic that I need to use. My only NEIPAs that really turned out were more of the milk shake variety. But I'm interested to make one lactose free. So I figured your recipe might be a better starting point.
 

Apmarand

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Ectopic Frequency NEIPA
OG: 1.070
FG: 1.012
ABV: 7.6%

Grain Bill
16 lbs Pale 2-row (76%)
4 lbs Spelt malt (19%)
0.5 lb Carafoam (2.5%)
0.5 lb Golden naked oats (2.5%)

Water
RO
Ca 86
Mg 21
Na 8
Cl 146
SO4 141
Mash pH = 5.2 (adjusted from 5.35)
Knock out pH = 5.0 (adjusted from 5.2)

Mash Hops
5 oz Cascade

Boil Hops
1 oz CTZ 10 min
1 oz CTZ 5 min
1 oz CTZ 0 min

Whirlpool
2 oz Citra @ 175F 45 min
1 oz Mosaic LUPOMAX @ 175F 45 min
1 oz Citra LUPOMAX @160F 30 min
2 oz Mosaic @ 160F 30 min

Yeast
OYL-405 (~400 billion cells) – overbuilt starter. Pitched 2L (out of 5L) fermented for 18 hrs.
This yeast will climb out of your flask…

Dry Hops Charge #1
1 oz Citra
1 oz Citra LUPOMAX
1 oz Mosaic
1 oz Mosaic LUPOMAX
1 oz Vic Secret

Dry Hops Charge #2
1.5 oz Citra LUPOMAX
1.5 oz Mosaic LUPOMAX
1 oz Citra
1 oz Mosaic
2 oz Vic Secret

Hot-side
A bit about my process. I added mash hops about 5 minutes after mashing in. I BIAB with HERMs using my CFC, 2 pumps (whirlpool and autosparge returns) and a 1800W element to do a stepped mash, 146F for 30 min, 160F for 30 min. Raw dog all kettle/whirlpool hops. 50 minute boil on propane.

Cold-side
Pitched 66F, let free-rise to 74F, about 48hrs after pitching. Naturally came down to 72F, where I held it until passed VDK test (6 days of fermentation). Soft crash to 50F for 48hrs. Drop yeast. Raise temp back to 62F. Purge dry hop charge 1 with CO2 (in a dry hopper), add purged hops. Recirculate 5x (30 sec over recirculation) over 24 hrs. Dropped temp to 50F, recirculate 5x (30 sec intervals) for 12 hrs. Let hops settle over 12 hrs. Drop charge 1. Raise temp back to 62F. Purge and add dry hop charge 2. Burp with CO2 from the cone twice a day (24 hrs). Lower temp to 50F, resuspended with CO2 from cone twice. Cold crash to 38F for 48 hrs. Drop dry hops once a day. Closed loop transfer to fermentation-purged cornie kegs. I use a bouncer mac daddy inline filter to ensure no suspended particles, not really an issue with my process anymore.

Evaluation
Head is tight AF. Mouth feel drinks like a stout. Has a bit of a hop bite from recirculating and Vic Secret, but its close to drinkable. It’ll mellow out in a couple days. Aroma is strong citrus, orange, and berry. Bit of grape juice/white wine. Flavor has lots of tropical fruit (passion fruit, guava, red currant), citrus, berry, and white wine. Pre-dry hop samples were outstanding. I *almost* considered skipping the dry hops. The dry hops definitely soaked up some of the thiols, but with the amount of saturation achieved during fermentation, the thiol flavors still come through while still allowing dry hop character to shine. I’m really happy with how this one turned out. Easily my best NEIPA. I think Ill play around with recipes omitting dry-hops in a blond ale or cold IPA.

Obligatory pic 1:
image0.jpeg


Natural light pic 2:

image1.jpeg
 

FugacityBrews

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It's not helio gazer, but I am planning on using OYL-403 (lunar crush) for a sort of white wine inspired lager as my next brew. Does anyone have experience using hallertau or another noble hop as a mash hop? I'm not sure I want to use cascade for what I am trying to achieve.

Also curious if anyone has used phantasm thiol powder at all and if that was worth doing.
 

SanPancho

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It's not helio gazer, but I am planning on using OYL-403 (lunar crush) for a sort of white wine inspired lager as my next brew. Does anyone have experience using hallertau or another noble hop as a mash hop? I'm not sure I want to use cascade for what I am trying to achieve.

Also curious if anyone has used phantasm thiol powder at all and if that was worth doing.
Used saaz cascade and Idaho 7 in mash, phantasm in boil. Should be carbed in about a week.
 

cactusgarrett

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I'm not sure I want to use cascade for what I am trying to achieve.
I just kegged a lunar crush IPL (cascade mash hopped, Galaxy/Sabro late & WP hop, Cashmere dry hop). I leaned heavily on the thiol flavors, as the WP and dry hopping were kept to a minimum. It DEFINITELY has the sav blanc wine characteristic.

From what I understand, the type of hop you use for mash hopping (for any of these thiolized yeasts) doesn't matter as they don't really impart any discernable characteristics. So unless you're trying to save your cascade specifically, it should be just as good as other proven high-thiol-precursor hops (saaz, hallertau, etc.).
 

Apmarand

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From what I understand, the type of hop you use for mash hopping (for any of these thiolized yeasts) doesn't matter as they don't really impart any discernable characteristics. So unless you're trying to save your cascade specifically, it should be just as good as other proven high-thiol-precursor hops (saaz, hallertau, etc.).

100% agree. I’ve gotten absolutely no flavor/aroma from the mash hop (at the suggested hops rates)
 

Apmarand

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I made a pale ale this morning (SG 1.054) pitching this yeast with Cascade in the mash (0.5 oz/gal), Cascade and CTZ in the boil (last 10 min, 0.25 oz/gal), and CTZ and Mosaic in the whirlpool (0.5 oz/gal). I will be foregoing dry hops. Really excited for this one given my last experience with OYL-405.
 

FugacityBrews

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I just kegged a lunar crush IPL (cascade mash hopped, Galaxy/Sabro late & WP hop, Cashmere dry hop). I leaned heavily on the thiol flavors, as the WP and dry hopping were kept to a minimum. It DEFINITELY has the sav blanc wine characteristic.

From what I understand, the type of hop you use for mash hopping (for any of these thiolized yeasts) doesn't matter as they don't really impart any discernable characteristics. So unless you're trying to save your cascade specifically, it should be just as good as other proven high-thiol-precursor hops (saaz, hallertau, etc.).
This is really nice to know. That was my understanding but it helps to hear it again. I'm planning on using hallertau anyhow because I've got a decent amount I don't need and this is a way to get rid of it. I was concerned the flavors would be present in the end product but I'll no longer worry myself with that.

How much did you dry hop with Cashmere, and do you think the thiol aroma came through fairly well in the end after dry hopping?
 

cactusgarrett

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How much did you dry hop with Cashmere, and do you think the thiol aroma came through fairly well in the end after dry hopping?
It was about 1.5 oz for 5.5gal in the fermenter for 36 hours at 50°F. Lunar Crush is a thiol bomb, so I can't imagine that (relatively) low dry hopping will have affected it at all. When I kegged, the whole room smelled like the beer, so it definitely has the aroma it should.
 

Apmarand

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No mash hops. Just going to see what the malt and yeast do. I did use mash hops with Cosmic punch in the past.
Any update on this recipe? I am debating whether to add a small dry hop charge this weekend to a pale ale fermented with this yeast.
 

TBA

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Any update on this recipe? I am debating whether to add a small dry hop charge this weekend to a pale ale fermented with this yeast.
Kegged it yesterday, forced carved and just tapped. Not sure I am a fan of plain thiols… not at all what I expected. Smells and tastes like an armpit. I guess that makes sense based on where they got the gene.
 

Unicorn_Platypus

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would be interested in seeing omega do a belgian thiolized strain of sorts. Wondering if that's in the works?
 

jnecessary

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Kegged it yesterday, forced carved and just tapped. Not sure I am a fan of plain thiols… not at all what I expected. Smells and tastes like an armpit. I guess that makes sense based on where they got the gene.
I did an IPA with Star Party, same here, not a fan of the thiol thing. I made a great pale ale the same day (used WLP001 on that batch)...it's sulphury and bad. I'm not in a hurry to waste it, but the smell is kind of repulsive at 3 weeks. It can sit and wait. I may also try the copper trick to see if it kills the sulphur.
 

TBA

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Don’t dump it yet - this yeast needs time for the flavors to settle in.
Not sure what to do. I figured if it was bland I could keg hop but this crazy strong. Maybe adding kettle or whirlpool hops is a good idea to reduce some of the thiols. Right now I will let the keg sit and hopefully mellow out.
 
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