OG way off from target - how?

[wasteofliam]

Recently drafted a "Hazy DIPA" recipe in the recipe builder, with the following Fermentables:

Method: Extract, full-volume for boil 60 minutes.
Started with a volume around 8 gal., Recipe built for 5.5 gal into fermenter finished with probably 5.7 gal.

1LB Flaked Oats(pre-gelatinized, steeped 30)
1LB Flaked Wheat(pre-gelatinized, steeped 30)
1LB Briess White Wheat Malt(Steeped 30)
8oz Viking Wheat Malt(steeped 30)
5LB Ultralight LME(60min)
5LB Ultralight LME(late add, 15 min.)
1LB Dextrose(Late add 15 min.)

According to said recipe builder, if I attained a relatively low efficiency, I should be sitting around 1.075-1.080.

Everything went well during the brew, nothing unexpected. Took my first OG reading when it was cooled properly, and I achieved a whopping......1.060? Look again and maybe even 1.059? This is literally 15-20 points lower than I anticipated, even when factoring in a 10-15% efficiency. Even with a theoretical 0% efficiency from steeping grains, the extract and dextrose alone should have gotten me to 1.070-1.075, correct? There was less than a 1/2 gallon surplus in my fermenter, but that amount shouldn't affect it by this much. I have no explanation that I can figure, help?

Is it possible or MORE LIKELY that my reading is incorrect or being affected by something, or that my wort is actually this far off from expected?

I understand by doing some research that maybe I steeped the oats and wheat at the wrong temps and maybe for too long, but again, that doesn't really explain why I'm nearly 20% off my target OG. Frustrated and confused and would appreciate some guidance.

Worth noting that I think the beer will still be fantastic, and the batch isn't ruined or anything like that. Mostly just confusion and wondering how I can accurately predict this in the future.

 

[bobeer]

did you mix up the wort really well before you took the gravity? The wort can sometimes become layered as it cooled.

I plugged your recipe into a calculator and you're right, all in all it's around 1.080 with the steeping grains making up 1.017 of that.

I see you put 5.7 gallons into the fermentor instead of 5.5 so that could have impacted the gravity if it had .2 gallons of water more than what the recipe called for. That's 25.6 ounces of water. When I have overshot my numbers and had to shave a few points off the OG it takes very little in a 5 gallon batch to drop the gravity. I definitely could be wrong but maybe the extra volume plus the off steeping temp could combine to make up the lost gravity?

 

[bracconiere]

8oz wheat malt to convert 3lb's of adjuncts, seems like streching it.....especially as steeping......

edit: oh 1.5lb's....still though.....

 

[VikeMan]

8oz wheat malt to convert 3lb's of adjuncts, seems like streching it.....especially as steeping......

1.5 lbs of base malt. 2 lbs of non-malted grains. Assuming the "steeping" was within mash range, it should have been ok.

 

[wasteofliam]

did you mix up the wort really well before you took the gravity? The wort can sometimes become layered as it cooled.

I plugged your recipe into a calculator and you're right, all in all it's around 1.080 with the steeping grains making up 1.017 of that.

I see you put 5.7 gallons into the fermentor instead of 5.5 so that could have impacted the gravity if it had .2 gallons of water more than what the recipe called for. That's 25.6 ounces of water. When I have overshot my numbers and had to shave a few points off the OG it takes very little in a 5 gallon batch to drop the gravity. I definitely could be wrong but maybe the extra volume plus the off steeping temp could combine to make up the lost gravity?

Not really, It mixed well on the way into the fermenter but I think I may have let it sit there for too long before taking my reading, something I had not thought of until now.

 

[wasteofliam]

1.5 lbs of base malt. 2 lbs of non-malted grains. Assuming the "steeping" was within mash range, it should have been ok.

Steeped between 160-165 for 30 minutes. Should have been enough, even though without any conversion from the grains my LME and corn sugar should have gotten me a 1.075, that's kinda where I was surprised. I always assume low efficiency with steeped grains due to past brews on my equipment.

 

[bracconiere]

1.5 lbs of base malt. 2 lbs of non-malted grains. Assuming the "steeping" was within mash range, it should have been ok.

i wouldn't think wheat malt had the diastatic power, especially in a thin steeping condition.......one thing you can do is buy a refractometer, let it ferment, then reverse figure out the OG from a hydro, refract reading and a calc....

i got 1.073 with the malted wheat in beersmith? 1.063 with just LME? and at 165, it will denature the enzymes, so i doubt the malt even added anything....

 

[VikeMan]

Steeped between 160-165 for 30 minutes. Should have been enough, even though without any conversion from the grains my LME and corn sugar should have gotten me a 1.075, that's kinda where I was surprised.

By my calcs, in 5.7 gallons, the LME and corn sugar alone should have hit 1.071. Assuming all the LME and sugar made it into the kettle, there are two explanations for low OG I can think of:
- wort and water not well mixed (if this was a top-off batch)
- lots of wort (unaccounted for in the 5.7 gallons) left behind in the kettle/trub.

 

[bracconiere]

do you have a smaller pot, and do a sorta mini mash next time at 150f? then strain that into the big pot?

 

[VikeMan]

i wouldn't think wheat malt had the diastatic power, especially in a thin steeping condition....

Wheat malt, especially Briess Wheat Malt, has lots of DP. Like 160L or so.

 

[bracconiere]

Wheat malt, especially Briess Wheat Malt, has lots of DP. Like 160L or so.

hmm....and i forgot to add the dextrose.....

 

[bracconiere]

kinda off topic, but could fix your effec problems....convert something like this to a mini mash tun for your steeping grains....

Legend 2 Gallon Water Jug{CampaignName}&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=CPC&gclid=Cj0KCQjwtsv7BRCmARIsANu-CQfAlKMhSQJRtc_4Fnggt1woX5pai9KIMXGH9zz_rIsE_C9KlcN4Xq8aAro7EALw_wcB

 

[wasteofliam]

do you have a smaller pot, and do a sorta mini mash next time at 150f? then strain that into the big pot?

Could definitely give this a try. I have a 5 gal kettle that I used to do partial boils in.

 

[wasteofliam]

i wouldn't think wheat malt had the diastatic power, especially in a thin steeping condition.......one thing you can do is buy a refractometer, let it ferment, then reverse figure out the OG from a hydro, refract reading and a calc....

i got 1.073 with the malted wheat in beersmith? 1.063 with just LME? and at 165, it will denature the enzymes, so i doubt the malt even added anything....

On the matter of reverse figuring the OG, I actually do have a refractometer that I just got recently and have not used much yet. What is the process for doing this after fermentation?

 

[Mtrhdltd]

I think 1.060 seems about right. I dont use calculators for recipes, just guestimate. I'm guessing you had another gallon of wort on top of the 5.7. 2.3 gallons lost in boil is not realistic IMO. Where did that extra gallon go? I bet that will answer your question.

 

[bracconiere]

On the matter of reverse figuring the OG, I actually do have a refractometer that I just got recently and have not used much yet. What is the process for doing this after fermentation?

it's really just something i've personally heard about. but aprently being that alcohol, f's up a refractometer, you can take a refractometer read, AND a hydro reading...and punch it to some spiffy online calc, and it will give alcohol content, and OG....

and i was thinking with the 2 gallon cooler, you'd have to figure out how to strain it in that small, maybe just convert it with your strike water from the big pot as it's coming to a boil, then dump in you're steeping bag.......probably help effec A LOT....you'd get all the points from the un malted AND malted grain that way, shave a few cents of a twelver! plus a feeling of extra pride!

 

[wasteofliam]

it's really just something i've personally heard about. but aprently being that alcohol, f's up a refractometer, you can take a refractometer read, AND a hydro reading...and punch it to some spiffy online calc, and it will give alcohol content, and OG....

and i was thinking with the 2 gallon cooler, you'd have to figure out how to strain it in that small, maybe just convert it with your strike water from the big pot as it's coming to a boil, then dump in you're steeping bag.......probably help effec A LOT....you'd get all the points from the un malted AND malted grain that way, shave a few cents of a twelver! plus a feeling of extra pride!

Interesting, I believe I found a calculator like what you mention on Northern Brewer that seems to want the Brix and SG after fermentation, and spits out OG and ABV. I'll give this a try and see what I come up with. Pitched a healthy amount of Voss Kveik yeast fermenting at 98F so it should be done in a very short time. At least this will tell me if it was a reading error, or a brewing error.

 

[wasteofliam]

I think 1.060 seems about right. I dont use calculators for recipes, just guestimate. I'm guessing you had another gallon of wort on top of the 5.7. 2.3 gallons lost in boil is not realistic IMO. Where did that extra gallon go? I bet that will answer your question.

A fair point. I did add 3.5 oz of hops to the kettle at burnout which seemed to create a lot of sediment. The remaining stuff in the kettle looked like mostly sediment and trub. That being said;
This is where my green-ness and inexperience shows and I ask:
If I have boiled 8 gallons of wort down to say, 6.5 gallons post-boil (for example) and I transfer 5.5 gallons of that into my fermenter,
does that lower the gravity of the wort in my fermenter? Or doesn't all 6.5 gallons of wort have the same OG regardless of how much is taken?
I can understand how diluting it by topping off with water changes OG, but I was unaware that not using all of the wort available in a full-volume boil will also affect it in any significant way. Very interesting stuff.

EDIT: I think I get what you're saying. In other words in the situation above I actually made a 6.5 gallon batch, and not a 5.5 gallon. Makes sense but again, didn't seem like I left too much in the kettle.

 

[VikeMan]

If I have boiled 8 gallons of wort down to say, 6.5 gallons post-boil (for example) and I transfer 5.5 gallons of that into my fermenter,
does that lower the gravity of the wort in my fermenter?

It's the same gravity no matter how much of the wort is transferred. But the higher the total volume of wort, the lower the gravity. It's the concentration of sugars/dextrins that matters.

 

[wasteofliam]

It's the same gravity no matter how much of the wort is transferred. But the higher the total volume of wort, the lower the gravity. It's the concentration of sugars/dextrins that matters.

Got it, thanks for the explanation. I think it clicked in my head just as you were typing your response.
So in this case I may have gone with too much water pre-boil and accidentally diluted things on the front-end. I sure wish I had better idea of how much boiled off and how much wort I actually made. Teach me to have a kettle with no volume markings on it!