Offset warm ferments with over-pitching?

[NymPymplee]

Well, summer is coming to Tokyo, which means an average indoor temp of 28C (82F) with AC. Last summer I did the ol' bathtub filled with frozen bottles of water trick, but could only get fermentation temps down to about 23C (73F). As I recall, they didn't come out super terrible, but they were kit beers using kit yeasts. I'm on to all grain and really only have US-05, S-04, and S-23 available (washed and jarred).

So, based on my limited understanding and info I've scraped from the internet:
1) High ferment temps = More ester formation
2) Over-pitching = Less ester formation

To compensate for warm ferment temps, couldn't you just over-pitch and thereby reduce ester formation?
Anyone figure what the final product will be like?

 

[xpops]

although there is no real harm in over-pitching, i think you'll just have MORE yeast fermenting at a higher temp. i'd personally be weary of over-pitching in hopes of battling high fermentation temps.

how about a cheap DIY fermentation chamber? they can be build for a pretty reasonable price. if you're sticking with homebrewing and those are your standards temps you're battling....i feel you'd notice a big difference in your finished beers.

cheers,

 

[NymPymplee]

Thanks for the advice. I've been scouring the classifieds for a free beer fridge to convert into a fermentation chamber to no avail. There's also the matter of having no tools nor anywhere to actually make a fermentation chamber. And being that my apartment is only about 20 square metres... it's a conundrum.

 

[Denny]

Well, summer is coming to Tokyo, which means an average indoor temp of 28C (82F) with AC. Last summer I did the ol' bathtub filled with frozen bottles of water trick, but could only get fermentation temps down to about 23C (73F). As I recall, they didn't come out super terrible, but they were kit beers using kit yeasts. I'm on to all grain and really only have US-05, S-04, and S-23 available (washed and jarred).

So, based on my limited understanding and info I've scraped from the internet:
1) High ferment temps = More ester formation
2) Over-pitching = Less ester formation

To compensate for warm ferment temps, couldn't you just over-pitch and thereby reduce ester formation?
Anyone figure what the final product will be like?

#1, overpitching won't decrease esters in thge presence of high temps. #2, overpitching will actually increase esters on its own. Yeast uses the same enzyme, acetyl Co-A for both cell growth and ester formation. When it;s doing one, it's not doing the other. Therefore, if you overpitch you don't get cell growth and the acetyl Co-A goes to ester production.

 

[NymPymplee]

Great. Now we're getting somewhere.

I don't suppose anyone can point me to resources getting more into the science of yeast and brewing (advanced level)? Also, profiles for individual strains including temp ranges and what flavors are produced at what temps for a given strain?

 

[Denny]

Great. Now we're getting somewhere.

I don't suppose anyone can point me to resources getting more into the science of yeast and brewing (advanced level)? Also, profiles for individual strains including temp ranges and what flavors are produced at what temps for a given strain?

Answering the last part first, the yeast manufacturers (Wyeast and White) have profiles on their websites. What flavors are produced at various temps are too numerous and variable to get into. For some yeasts, like WY1056, pretty much no change. For others, like WY1214, effects can be very pronounced (lots of banana and bubblegum for that one above about 63F).

Brewers Publications has a book out called "Yeast" that is very technical and truthfully of little use to homebrewers IMO. Wade into it if you dare. I will tell you I've been through all the levels of yeast geekiness (yeast calculators, stirplates, etc.) and now after 19 years and 514 batches I'm back to keeping it simple.

 

[kh54s10]

The real answer is that you are unlikely to balance anything by overpitching. Look for other ways to cool the wort.

http://www.homebrewing.org/Cool-Brew_p_2909.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&gclid=Cj0KEQjw8tbHBRC6rLS024qYjtEBEiQA7wIDefYaeZ_HTjm2k19SKI-BLRp5zYybHsLWtBdHOGk0EA0aAjCv8P8HAQ

http://cdn.greatfermentations.com/images/sitelnk/large/gf378_cool_brewing_ferment_bag.jpg

 

[Denny]

I had great success for many years placing the fermenter in a tub of water and adding icepacks to the water.

 

[jschein]

Swamp cooler, it can be big or the same size as the fermentation vessel.

 

[jschein]

Or if you have extra cash you could get the Brewjacket; http://www.brewjacket.com
They are dual heat/cooling. I have 2

 

[bleme]

Personally, I'd go with a mini-fridge plugged into an Inkbird (which is what I have). There are no tools or modification required and it can double as a nightstand.

The other option would be to change your house yeast to something more forgiving like WLP6788 (or any of the farmhouse/saison yeasts really).

 

[normonster]

If you're down to just letting it ride, as a minimum effort I would recommend a wet towel over your carboys with a fan blowing on it. Evaporative (sp? is that a word?) cooling will get you a few degrees. You could even get tricky and wire up a Ranco to turn the fan on and off according to room temp.

 

[normonster]

....

The other option would be to change your house yeast to something more forgiving like WLP6788 (or any of the farmhouse/saison yeasts really).

Or this.