Off Flavour that I cant get rid off!?

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eestisiin

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Hi guys, im in desperate need of your help cause im tired of screwing up!
Long story short - im fixed on brewing the easiest drinkable light beer there is and I just can't do it as I have a bad off-flavour that i would describe as Malty/buttery/husky - I know these are different flavours, but when I taste test, then it makes sense :) If it think buttery (diacetyl?) then it tastest buttery maybe, if i think husky, then it feels husky (over mashed?) Id say the flavour is frontend , i take a sip and immediately taste it, its not like ooh later it lingers

So a bit of a story

Im brewing real basic stuff

2kg Pilsner Malt
1.6 Pale Ale Malt
200g Vienna Malt

Mashed 65c for 60 min, then 70c for 15 and 75 for 10min
I then sparge with water until runnings reach 1.010 , then sample the wort, if it should be diluted down i add some extra water, but since im on my 9th (FML) batch with the same beer, then i hit my numbers pretty good.

Hops
21.5g Saaz @ 60min
10.5g Saaz @ 20min
10.5g Saaz @ 0min

Boil total time is 90 min

I pitch 2 pkg of Lalleman Diamond Lager and ferment under pressure @19c using temp control!

Things i have done to try and get rid of this taste

1) Learned water chemistry and pH - im mashing with spring water (bottled) - only thing i can get my hands on here and at first didnt adjust pH - was thinking the grainy husky flavour is from there. I think it helped a bit, but definitely my efficiency has gotten better!
2) No contact with air - fermenter to keg transfer is closed, keg is purged of o2 and yeah, its basic, also always have used temp control
3) Cleaning of fermenter - im using fermzilla 35l model with the yeast collector and im taking it apart every brew and cleaning it correctly - id say i havent had a runaway fermentation or something i would put into the bad fermentation list
4) I have tried different yeast and different hops - originally the recipe was with Hallertau and when i read about the character it stated wet grass and etc so I was like oooh maybe its that, switched to known Saaz and yeah, no difference, maybe again subtle
5) Different fermenting times and temps - I have tried 15c under pressure for 2 weeks, with raising temp in the end for few days - same result, I have tried 19c for 2 weeks under pressure (current batch) same results, I have done it 5 days 19c and then keg it - same
6) Lagering?! I have done this many different ways as well - Keg and drink in 2 days, Keg and let it sit for 2-3 weeks, Keg and add gelatine finings etc, nothing! I see people enjoying their non flavourful beers in 2 weeks, but yeah I don't know if TheApartmentbrewer tastes something off or would he love my beer or its awful or , yeah hard to see what people are tasting :)

What to do?

Can it be the grain? Im using IREKS Pilsner, maybe this Pilsner has a real strong malty taste? The worst thing is that since I cant isolate what the off flavour exactly is means im chasing different things.
Can it be diacetyl? Fermenting warm & under pressure with 12PSI, but i see it done everywhere and shouldn't be an issue?!
Can it be the lagering length? 2 weeks too short time? For example my beer is crystal clear after gel finings and a week? Also I had one batch stay in my fridge for month or more, it was clear without gel finings and it still had the same taste.

Im thinking about doing a batch without pressure and low temp , but im kind of tired already :D as someone needs to drink that beer also :D another option is that i will change the Pilsner from IREKS to Weyermann or something else, perhaps its this? Or could it be that im under hopping my beer? Currently IBU around 17

One thing i can also say is that I order my grains crushed and most of the times it takes me a week or so to get to brewing from them, could this cause anything, its stored airtight in like 10c garage?

I think i have mostly explained everything, whoever can help me will get a beer from me that is finally clear of this taste :D

PS! Please save the comments that this recipe sucks and whatnot, I just stuck with it because if I can master and fix my errors on this, then I can move on! Oh and yes, I have tried other recipes - like David Heaths Munich Helles and that has the exact same flavour aaand is mostly done with IREKS Pilsner!
 

hottpeper13

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I would try an unpressurized fermentation starting at 10c. for 3 days then to 15c for 4-5 days then to 18 c to finish. I have clear fermenters and when the krausen subsides a little is when I raise temps. My lagers are 21 days in primary.
 

pvtpublic

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Butter does scream diacetyl, which is common for lagers to have an abundance of it during fermentation. Diacetyl is an intermediate compound in the production of ethanol, so it's presence is an indication of unfinished fermentation. It's fairly easy to clean up, since it's the yeast that do it. Left at temp, they take a lot longer to get around to it. That's why we do a diacetyl rest at room temp, it takes the stress off of the yeast so they're more inclined to consume it.

The huskiness is a different issue, and i believe it may have something to do with your sparging practice. If you're sparging until you reach a certain gravity, instead of volume, you could be running into a pH problem. Once you start going over 5.8, you're running the risk of extracting the tannins out of the husks. However, I'm more interested in how your grain is being milled. If it's too fine, you'll have too much surface area contact with those husks, and most likely pulling in too much of their flavor. You might be able lager that out though, fortunately.

I'm with @hottpeper13 Take off the pressure, let it sit at 10*C for 3 weeks for fermentation to complete and clean up, 4th week pulling out for a week for a diacetyl rest, then back to 10*C for a week for crashing, then transfer to keg for no less than a month at 0-1*C for lagering. I recommend fermenting a little cooler, though. It should help you get a nice, clean ferment. I personally bring my wort down to 7*C, pitch, and let it rise and ferment at 10*C.

Check all this out, I hope it helps you understand off flavors and the process of lagers a bit better;





 

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eestisiin

eestisiin

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Hey! Thanks guys, ill do a split batch with regular long ferm as suggested and one more under pressure, but the question is - if it sits at 19c or 67f for 2 weeks - like fermentation was done in roughly 5 days, then shouldnt it clean up after itself within that extra 9 days before i cold crashed it, but ill def try raising the temp to 22-23c next time and keeping it there for like 5-7 days and see how that changes!


Is there a way i could remedy my batch if its diacetyl? Its kegged atm and sits at 1c

Leave it for months? 🤷🏼‍♂️

Thanks, i mever suspected diacetyl per’se as i was under the inpression that pressure fermentation will take care of it when fermented warm!?
 

pvtpublic

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Hey! Thanks guys, ill do a split batch with regular long ferm as suggested and one more under pressure, but the question is - if it sits at 19c or 67f for 2 weeks - like fermentation was done in roughly 5 days, then shouldnt it clean up after itself within that extra 9 days before i cold crashed it, but ill def try raising the temp to 22-23c next time and keeping it there for like 5-7 days and see how that changes!


Is there a way i could remedy my batch if its diacetyl? Its kegged atm and sits at 1c

Leave it for months? 🤷🏼‍♂️

Thanks, i mever suspected diacetyl per’se as i was under the inpression that pressure fermentation will take care of it when fermented warm!?
You have to remember, fermenting under pressure is a way of emulating the stress on the yeast that the lower temps provide. Just because it's warmer, doesn't necessarily mean that it will ferment faster. It's meant to slow the yeasts' metabolism so that it ferments clean. Even though pressure fermenting at warmer temps provides a cleaner fermentation profile, it's still not quite the same as lower temps. My suggestion for cleaning up your diacetyl would be to take off the pressure and bring it into room temperature for a week, then you can bring it back down. You could let it sit at 1*C, but it will take a lot longer to clean out. If you still can't get it out, get a yeast starter going and pitch it in. The aggressive yeast will take care of it pretty quick.
 
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eestisiin

eestisiin

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You have to remember, fermenting under pressure is a way of emulating the stress on the yeast that the lower temps provide. Just because it's warmer, doesn't necessarily mean that it will ferment faster. It's meant to slow the yeasts' metabolism so that it ferments clean. Even though pressure fermenting at warmer temps provides a cleaner fermentation profile, it's still not quite the same as lower temps. My suggestion for cleaning up your diacetyl would be to take off the pressure and bring it into room temperature for a week, then you can bring it back down. You could let it sit at 1*C, but it will take a lot longer to clean out. If you still can't get it out, get a yeast starter going and pitch it in. The aggressive yeast will take care of it pretty quick.
Thank you! Eye opener for me and ill get my kegs out for a week at 21c and if this wont help ill pitch new yeast in!

Thanks so much! Hopefully this turns it around for me!
 

Martys1

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Could be your mash temps are to high and I would drop the 170 to 160-165, mash at 148-up to 156for 15,for a lighter, dryer beer.
 

pvtpublic

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Could be your mash temps are to high and I would drop the 170 to 160-165, mash at 148-up to 156for 15,for a lighter, dryer beer.
That's basically what OP did. 65*C=149*F, 70*F=158*F, 75*C=167*F. These mash temperatures have nothing to do with diacetyl or husky off flavors. They do, however, have a lot to do with procedure.
 

Pennine

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Most pilsner malt tastes that way to me. Malty, buttery and usually what I taste as hay might be your husky. I would try switching malts next time.
 

Beermeister32

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The lightest, easiest to drink lager beers are typically the hardest to produce. That is why many brewers start with easier to produce beers like porters and golden ales. Light lagers are a graduate level course, not Brewing 101.

That said, you can produce terrific lagers at home. The biggest difference is purchasing a refrigerator and a digital temp controller, and ferment cold. I usually ferment lagers at about 48-50F.

At the end of fermentation, let the temp rise to mid 60’s for a few days, called a D-rest. Transfer it to a keg and lager it for 90 days at 34F. You will get better results.
 

pvtpublic

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I was wondering about the boil.
It's long enough at 90 minutes.
It should be a rolling boil without the lid on the pot (or so I've been told ;) )
Right, but that's for Dimethylsulfide, DMS, which doesn't clean up after the boil if it's present. What you're doing there is driving off those sulfur compounds into the air so it doesn't taste like cooked corn or fake seafood.
 

CleanEmUpIves

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Might be something different in this list:

Adjust your water and target a mash pH between 5.2-5.6. Lower is probably better.

Switch malt brands.

Stop doing the low O2.

Stop fermenting under pressure, ferment at low end of temp range, do a diacetal rest, lager for 2-3 months.

Add a campden tablet to the mash.

Try an equivalent yeast W34/70, WLP830, etc...

Use a yeast calculator. Pitch a healthy amount of yeast.

Crush your own grains at a course setting such that the husk does not tear.
 
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eestisiin

eestisiin

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Most pilsner malt tastes that way to me. Malty, buttery and usually what I taste as hay might be your husky. I would try switching malts next time.
Heh, I was wondering it - i will add to my list a test with another malt and if this works, then change pilsner malt
If you're using the same yeast every batch think I would try something else.

Lots of variable suggested here.
I actually forgot to mention that this has been done also - its diamond lager, 34/70 and some others as well
You need some acid in the mash, lactic, phosphoric or acidulated malt.
Im adjusting my mash pH + also Sparge water pH - after 10-15 minutes i check my mash pH and am always spot on with it (well always, when i started doing it - like 4-5 batches ago) - using lactic acid
Might be something different in this list:

Adjust your water and target a mash pH between 5.2-5.6. Lower is probably better.

Switch malt brands.

Stop doing the low O2.

Stop fermenting under pressure, ferment at low end of temp range, do a diacetal rest, lager for 2-3 months.

Add a campden tablet to the mash.

Try an equivalent yeast W34/70, WLP830, etc...

Use a yeast calculator. Pitch a healthy amount of yeast.

Crush your own grains at a course setting such that the husk does not tear.
pH adjustments im doing already!
Switching malt brands is what i plan on doing after testing out longer rest period
No campden tablet available here, but i have gone over and over with it, since i was suspecting cholrine in my water and whatnot, but now am using spring water with good quality - have used several different brands of water to make sure its not that.
Yeast wise have used 34/70 and Diamond lager and few others, i think S-04 or S-05 , anyways same results
using brewfather and following healthy yeast amounts

Crushing my own grains is something i will look into after i have gone over all other things, i like the idea , but am worried about will my garage fit all my needs :D

Thanks for the input!

If anyone cares, then here is my "go to" on what tests next

1) Bring my KEGs to room temp, relieve pressure and let them stay at 21c+ for 7 to 14 days, if nothing, bitch yeast in keg and see if that changes
2) try another recipe with other malt
3) try another batch with half done in typical lager style - not under pressure, longer ferment times, low temps etc and second as I was doing, but letting it lager longer + diacetyl rest
4) if non of it helps go to school with a local brew master :D i mean i know i must be able to produce a good beer at home, its just some stupid mistake i am doing and at the moment i hope/ think like @pvtpublic mentioned before is that im in a hurry for a good beet and dont give things enough time to get ready - hence the "LAGER" term that i keep overlooking - its just when you go through all the guys pressure fermenting and drinking crisp lagers in few weeks time , it makes me question now :D
Anyways - to all, thank you so much for "pitching in" :D a lot of help and things to consider
 

pvtpublic

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Yeah, lagers are a set it and forget it type. I usually don't start pulling full pours until at least 3 months after I pitch. It's good to keep a brew schedule going when doing lagers. Make sure you make some ale so you have something in the meantime!
 

CleanEmUpIves

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No campden tablet available here, but i have gone over and over with it, since i was suspecting cholrine in my water and whatnot, but now am using spring water with good quality - have used several different brands of water to make sure its not that.

In this case the purpose isn't necessarily chlorine removal, instead it contributes a scrubbing and bleaching action to the malt and provides antioxidant benefits during the mash.
 

Red over White

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Hi guys, im in desperate need of your help cause im tired of screwing up!
Long story short - im fixed on brewing the easiest drinkable light beer there is and I just can't do it as I have a bad off-flavour that i would describe as Malty/buttery/husky - I know these are different flavours, but when I taste test, then it makes sense :) If it think buttery (diacetyl?) then it tastest buttery maybe, if i think husky, then it feels husky (over mashed?) Id say the flavour is frontend , i take a sip and immediately taste it, its not like ooh later it lingers

So a bit of a story

Im brewing real basic stuff

2kg Pilsner Malt
1.6 Pale Ale Malt
200g Vienna Malt

Mashed 65c for 60 min, then 70c for 15 and 75 for 10min
I then sparge with water until runnings reach 1.010 , then sample the wort, if it should be diluted down i add some extra water, but since im on my 9th (FML) batch with the same beer, then i hit my numbers pretty good.

Hops
21.5g Saaz @ 60min
10.5g Saaz @ 20min
10.5g Saaz @ 0min

Boil total time is 90 min

I pitch 2 pkg of Lalleman Diamond Lager and ferment under pressure @19c using temp control!

Things i have done to try and get rid of this taste

1) Learned water chemistry and pH - im mashing with spring water (bottled) - only thing i can get my hands on here and at first didnt adjust pH - was thinking the grainy husky flavour is from there. I think it helped a bit, but definitely my efficiency has gotten better!
2) No contact with air - fermenter to keg transfer is closed, keg is purged of o2 and yeah, its basic, also always have used temp control
3) Cleaning of fermenter - im using fermzilla 35l model with the yeast collector and im taking it apart every brew and cleaning it correctly - id say i havent had a runaway fermentation or something i would put into the bad fermentation list
4) I have tried different yeast and different hops - originally the recipe was with Hallertau and when i read about the character it stated wet grass and etc so I was like oooh maybe its that, switched to known Saaz and yeah, no difference, maybe again subtle
5) Different fermenting times and temps - I have tried 15c under pressure for 2 weeks, with raising temp in the end for few days - same result, I have tried 19c for 2 weeks under pressure (current batch) same results, I have done it 5 days 19c and then keg it - same
6) Lagering?! I have done this many different ways as well - Keg and drink in 2 days, Keg and let it sit for 2-3 weeks, Keg and add gelatine finings etc, nothing! I see people enjoying their non flavourful beers in 2 weeks, but yeah I don't know if TheApartmentbrewer tastes something off or would he love my beer or its awful or , yeah hard to see what people are tasting :)

What to do?

Can it be the grain? Im using IREKS Pilsner, maybe this Pilsner has a real strong malty taste? The worst thing is that since I cant isolate what the off flavour exactly is means im chasing different things.
Can it be diacetyl? Fermenting warm & under pressure with 12PSI, but i see it done everywhere and shouldn't be an issue?!
Can it be the lagering length? 2 weeks too short time? For example my beer is crystal clear after gel finings and a week? Also I had one batch stay in my fridge for month or more, it was clear without gel finings and it still had the same taste.

Im thinking about doing a batch without pressure and low temp , but im kind of tired already :D as someone needs to drink that beer also :D another option is that i will change the Pilsner from IREKS to Weyermann or something else, perhaps its this? Or could it be that im under hopping my beer? Currently IBU around 17

One thing i can also say is that I order my grains crushed and most of the times it takes me a week or so to get to brewing from them, could this cause anything, its stored airtight in like 10c garage?

I think i have mostly explained everything, whoever can help me will get a beer from me that is finally clear of this taste :D

PS! Please save the comments that this recipe sucks and whatnot, I just stuck with it because if I can master and fix my errors on this, then I can move on! Oh and yes, I have tried other recipes - like David Heaths Munich Helles and that has the exact same flavour aaand is mostly done with IREKS Pilsner!
I brew dry yeast light lagers on a 21 day schedule extremely similar to what you are doing. My suggestions would be to only change all the malt to different a brand and a slightly different yeast handling procedure.

1 pack in a 500ml vitality starter occasionally swirled made 4 hours prior to pitch, with 5g goferm protect evolution will give 10-12 point drop in 24 hours with zero areation. This is my preferred method for new yeast growth in the fermenter. Flavor wise in my experience using 2 packs of dry yeast sprinkled in and immediately applying pressure forces the dried yeast to do the bulk of the work, which tastes inferior to me to the method below.

Allowing the ferment to naturally build to 10 psi until 50% attenuation using a vitality starter with 1 pack of yeast with goferm protect evolution gives the dry yeast and the new daughter cells many of the things they need readily available for growth without having to produce them. After 50% attenuation I ramp to 28 psi and on day 5, xfer fully carbonated beer into a purged keg and chill to 40°F. Mangrove Jack's Cali Lager is clear and ready at 14 days, S23 and S189 are ready at 21 days (I only use clearzyme or clarity ferm at pitch, no other finings necessary). This method has been refined over 700 gallons of light lagers, it is by no means the only way to go, but has produced amazing brews on a typical macro brewery schedule which has always been my goal. I hope you find your issue.
 

CleanEmUpIves

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What ‘scrubbing and bleaching action’ is this that you are talking about?

Campden tablets contain Sodium or Potassium Metabisulfite which acts as an antimicrobial and antioxidant agent when dissolved in water. The reaction with water produces sulfur dioxide, sulfite and bisulfite. The sulfur dioxide is a gas which stuns/kills bacteria (scrubs the malt) and is released into the atmosphere. The sulfite and bisulfite are bound to free oxygen introducing sulfates and bisulfates, the left over sulfites are left waiting in solution. The sulfate is left in solution adding to the sulfate content. The bisulfate is a sulphuric acid salt thus reacted with water it lowers the pH of the solution and introduces additional sulfate. The bleaching action is a product of the scrubbing and antioxidant effects. If care is taken, the result can be a lighter color in the final beer.

Adding a Campden tablet to the mash was once a normal procedure. Circa 80's, 90's but fell out of favor thereafter due mostly to misinformation. The practice of adding sulfites resurfaced with the reintroduction of low dissolved oxygen at the homebrew level.
 

Yooper

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I understand sulfites (I actually give talks on it, at HomebrewCon at times) but never once heard it described as ‘scrubbing and bleaching”. It doesn’t actually add much sulfate in the amount we add if using in the mash, as it’s grams or portions of grams.

The lighter color in the final beer would come from lack of oxidation and not bleaching of the actual malt.
 

CleanEmUpIves

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I understand sulfites (I actually give talks on it, at HomebrewCon at times) but never once heard it described as ‘scrubbing and bleaching”. It doesn’t actually add much sulfate in the amount we add if using in the mash, as it’s grams or portions of grams.

The lighter color in the final beer would come from lack of oxidation and not bleaching of the actual malt.

Maltsters actually use metabisulfite to bleach or lighten the color of the malt. The action of the resulting sulfur dioxide is described as scrubbing and bleaching. See Malts and Malting - Briggs et. al. The same action is present in the mash.

The amount of metabisulfite present in a Campden tablet may very well be measured in grams or portions of grams.

As previously stated the light color comes from both antioxidant effects and bleaching.
 
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pvtpublic

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@eestisiin I genuinely dont mean to be an a-hole when I say this but, I don't see how any of these other suggestions actually address your diacetyl issues. The huskiness, well, could possibly be solved by changing malts. Sometimes pilsner malts have a hay-like quality to them, is that perhaps what your experiencing, instead of husky? Also, do you mill your own malt? (Sorry if you've answered that before) And, how long has it been sitting around after milling before brewing with it, whether you milled it or not?
 

brewbama

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Husky: I use domestic Pilsner malt vs continental. I find the barley variety matters to me.

Buttery: I would allow the yeast to ferment without pressure at first, then closed transfer to a keg with 1-2% extract remaining and attach a spunding valve to complete fermentation under pressure at 5°F higher than primary fermentation. Then cold crash under CO2 pressures. Fermenting lagers in 21 days
 
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Red over White

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As previously stated the light color comes from both antioxidant effects and bleaching.

In my side by side tests, SMB definitely bleaches wort, however it's not very popular to say around low oxygen brewers. In fact, I got skewered here and elsewhere for speaking the truth about it being an antioxidant and a bleach.

MBAA podcast 051 Joe H talks about its common use in the industry in the past for bleaching wort during the boil. It's just a handy tool in the toolbox to me.
 

aceluby

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I brew dry yeast light lagers on a 21 day schedule extremely similar to what you are doing. My suggestions would be to only change all the malt to different a brand and a slightly different yeast handling procedure.

1 pack in a 500ml vitality starter occasionally swirled made 4 hours prior to pitch, with 5g goferm protect evolution will give 10-12 point drop in 24 hours with zero areation. This is my preferred method for new yeast growth in the fermenter. Flavor wise in my experience using 2 packs of dry yeast sprinkled in and immediately applying pressure forces the dried yeast to do the bulk of the work, which tastes inferior to me to the method below.

Allowing the ferment to naturally build to 10 psi until 50% attenuation using a vitality starter with 1 pack of yeast with goferm protect evolutio gives the dry yeast and the new daughter cells many of the things they need readily available for growth without having to produce them. After 50% attenuation I ramp to 28 psi and on day 5, xfer fully carbonated beer into a purged keg and chill to 40°F. Mangrove Jack's Cali Lager is clear and ready at 14 days, S23 and S189 are ready at 21 days (I only use clearzyme or clarity ferm at pitch, no other finings necessary). This method has been refined over 700 gallons of light lagers, it is by no means the only way to go, but has produced amazing brews on a typical macro brewery schedule which has always been my goal. I hope you find your issue.
MJs Cali lager yeast is growing to become my favorite lager yeast. Can ferment warm, very clean, ridiculously fast, and short lager times. At 21days (14 lagering) my Helles was the hit of my Oktoberfest. Didn’t need a starter either.
 

Red over White

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MJs Cali lager yeast is growing to become my favorite lager yeast. Can ferment warm, very clean, ridiculously fast, and short lager times. At 21days (14 lagering) my Helles was the hit of my Oktoberfest. Didn’t need a starter either.

I agree, it's a solid choice with no downsides. It really bricks in the keg and turns around in 2 weeks, only Verdant is faster to clear for me.
 

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Hi guys, im in desperate need of your help cause im tired of screwing up!
Long story short - im fixed on brewing the easiest drinkable light beer there is and I just can't do it as I have a bad off-flavour that i would describe as Malty/buttery/husky - I know these are different flavours, but when I taste test, then it makes sense :) If it think buttery (diacetyl?) then it tastest buttery maybe, if i think husky, then it feels husky (over mashed?) Id say the flavour is frontend , i take a sip and immediately taste it, its not like ooh later it lingers

So a bit of a story

Im brewing real basic stuff

2kg Pilsner Malt
1.6 Pale Ale Malt
200g Vienna Malt

Mashed 65c for 60 min, then 70c for 15 and 75 for 10min
I then sparge with water until runnings reach 1.010 , then sample the wort, if it should be diluted down i add some extra water, but since im on my 9th (FML) batch with the same beer, then i hit my numbers pretty good.

Hops
21.5g Saaz @ 60min
10.5g Saaz @ 20min
10.5g Saaz @ 0min

Boil total time is 90 min

I pitch 2 pkg of Lalleman Diamond Lager and ferment under pressure @19c using temp control!

Things i have done to try and get rid of this taste

1) Learned water chemistry and pH - im mashing with spring water (bottled) - only thing i can get my hands on here and at first didnt adjust pH - was thinking the grainy husky flavour is from there. I think it helped a bit, but definitely my efficiency has gotten better!
2) No contact with air - fermenter to keg transfer is closed, keg is purged of o2 and yeah, its basic, also always have used temp control
3) Cleaning of fermenter - im using fermzilla 35l model with the yeast collector and im taking it apart every brew and cleaning it correctly - id say i havent had a runaway fermentation or something i would put into the bad fermentation list
4) I have tried different yeast and different hops - originally the recipe was with Hallertau and when i read about the character it stated wet grass and etc so I was like oooh maybe its that, switched to known Saaz and yeah, no difference, maybe again subtle
5) Different fermenting times and temps - I have tried 15c under pressure for 2 weeks, with raising temp in the end for few days - same result, I have tried 19c for 2 weeks under pressure (current batch) same results, I have done it 5 days 19c and then keg it - same
6) Lagering?! I have done this many different ways as well - Keg and drink in 2 days, Keg and let it sit for 2-3 weeks, Keg and add gelatine finings etc, nothing! I see people enjoying their non flavourful beers in 2 weeks, but yeah I don't know if TheApartmentbrewer tastes something off or would he love my beer or its awful or , yeah hard to see what people are tasting :)

What to do?

Can it be the grain? Im using IREKS Pilsner, maybe this Pilsner has a real strong malty taste? The worst thing is that since I cant isolate what the off flavour exactly is means im chasing different things.
Can it be diacetyl? Fermenting warm & under pressure with 12PSI, but i see it done everywhere and shouldn't be an issue?!
Can it be the lagering length? 2 weeks too short time? For example my beer is crystal clear after gel finings and a week? Also I had one batch stay in my fridge for month or more, it was clear without gel finings and it still had the same taste.

Im thinking about doing a batch without pressure and low temp , but im kind of tired already :D as someone needs to drink that beer also :D another option is that i will change the Pilsner from IREKS to Weyermann or something else, perhaps its this? Or could it be that im under hopping my beer? Currently IBU around 17

One thing i can also say is that I order my grains crushed and most of the times it takes me a week or so to get to brewing from them, could this cause anything, its stored airtight in like 10c garage?

I think i have mostly explained everything, whoever can help me will get a beer from me that is finally clear of this taste :D

PS! Please save the comments that this recipe sucks and whatnot, I just stuck with it because if I can master and fix my errors on this, then I can move on! Oh and yes, I have tried other recipes - like David Heaths Munich Helles and that has the exact same flavour aaand is mostly done with IREKS Pilsner!

In point (1) you mention that you're using bottled spring water and that you didn't adjust the pH at first (presumably now you are). Are you measuring your adjusted water with a decent pH meter?

I ask because the actual value may be way off from predicted. The mash pH calculator I use usually estimates ~0.15 high, but thanks to my pH meter I know that it's consistantly off by that much which means I can still nail my target pH.

Another point about bottled spring water. Perhaps it's been mentioned (I haven't read all responses) but spring water is usually remineralized. Like many homebrewers, I like to start with a blank slate and use reverse osmosis water instead. It's free of minerals which means I can add what I want without the risk of making a mistake that could mess up my mash pH.
 
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eestisiin

eestisiin

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Hey guys, thanks all for finding solutions and having heated discussions but I must say that @pvtpublic hit it out of the park for me! I was away from home for 7 days, i pulled my kegs out of the freezer and put them to sit (relieved pressure) and left them for 7 days or so. I pulled a sample yesterday and id say 99% of the buttery/milky whatever taste is gone.

So finally - i checked its my batch 9 and I can start eliminating whatever other problems come up, but im really really happy that i foudn the solution!
I popped one of the kegs back to the chestfreezer and will have a taste tonight and see how it tastes like, ill leave the other keg still out for few more days and then keep them in the freezer at 1c for as long as I can keep myself away from it :D
 
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eestisiin

eestisiin

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Just a followup! Had the KEG in 1c freezer and had a first crisp cold glass of it last evening and any off-flavour i was chasing is gone, maybe there is a slight hint of it, but I mean, managed to turn an undrinkable beer into a decent crushable beer! Im loss for words how happy this makes me!

Now I can focus on tuning flavours and learning more about different parts that I like in styles and dislike, but at least I can in theory now brew a tastless (in a good way) beer :)

Note: Whenever I actually manage to make a beer that blows my socks off, ill hit you up @pvtpublic and send you one ! Thank you so much!
 
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