Off Flavor With Extract Porter

[Homebrewnewbie190]

Hey guys,

I recently brewed an LME Vanilla Porter. I just tried it after one week of bottle conditioning. The first day I tried it from the fridge it was dry in the finish. The finish was also almost like a "pure alcohol" taste. My guess is that it's still green and needs more time to bottle condition? Or maybe it was something in my brewing process.

There were a few issues with this brew:
1. During the boil, I may have scorched some of the malts because I had a boilover.
2. I had an issue with using the siphon and ended up exposing it to oxygen longer than I anticipated.

I hope that the flavors will improve. Any feedback or suggestions would help!

 

[SoCal-Doug]

Scorched wort wont taste like alcohol. It will be like burnt toast or burnt coffee. You'll definitely smell it also.
Oxidized beer wont taste like alcohol. It will taste stale or like you are chewing on cardboard.
Alcohol (also called "hot") will warm the back of your throat in higher percentages and be chemical like. Much like weak vodka or neutral spirits.

How much LME, sugars and water were used? What was your final volume after boil? We'll take a look at the numbers and see how much alcohol you should have gotten.

 

[Homebrewnewbie190]

Alcohol (also called "hot") will warm the back of your throat in higher percentages and be chemical like. Much like weak vodka or neutral spirits.

That would describe what I was getting in the back of my throat.

How much LME, sugars and water were used? What was your final volume after boil? We'll take a look at the numbers and see how much alcohol you should have gotten.

Here is a link of the recipe:
http://www.homebrewing.org/assets/images/AIH 2013 Recipes/AIH Vanilla Porter1.pdf

I followed it exactly. I had about 2.5 gallons of wort and then added another 2 gallons of purified water. I was not able to mix it together so I was not able to get a proper reading on the OG once added to the fermenter. Would it have been better for me to take a reading a few days after active fermentation?

I was able to get a FG. Would that help?

Thanks!

 

[RM-MN]

That would describe what I was getting in the back of my throat.



Here is a link of the recipe:
http://www.homebrewing.org/assets/images/AIH 2013 Recipes/AIH Vanilla Porter1.pdf

I followed it exactly. I had about 2.5 gallons of wort and then added another 2 gallons of purified water. I was not able to mix it together so I was not able to get a proper reading on the OG once added to the fermenter. Would it have been better for me to take a reading a few days after active fermentation?

I was able to get a FG. Would that help?

Thanks!

If you followed the recipe exactly and had accurate measurement of the water you added the OG was 1.056, just like the recipe states. With extract you can't miss if the recipe is followed. It is very difficult to get an accurate reading of OG when using top off water so just go by what the recipe states.

Hot alcohol taste often comes from fermenting the beer too warm. The yeast like to go crazy with eating all that sugar and create fusel alcohol which will taste "hot" even in small amounts. The other thing about this that isn't often mentioned is that the fusel alcohol tends to lead to hangover headaches. I like to ferment my ales about 62 degrees for a week, then warm them to low 70's to get the best flavor and quick fermentation.

At one week your porter is definitely "green" and the taste will improve with time. I've learned to not expect a good flavor from my porters for 3 months at which time they magically improve. Be patient and be rewarded.

Meanwhile, brew another beer, preferably as light colored and low alcohol as you would want to drink. This beer will mature much faster than the darker, higher alcohol porter you just brewed. I do a pale ale that can be bottled at day 10 (after confirming fermentation is complete by using my hydrometer) and can start drinking it a week after bottling. It will be quite pleasant to drink but lacking a decent head at that point. Waiting another week improves the taste and heading.

 

[madscientist451]

For your next batch:
-Try the mini-mash technique where you use some base malt along with your specialty grains to add flavor and gravity points to your extract.
-Figure a way to keep your fermentation temperature low, at least in the initial stages. A simple cardboard box lined with Styrofoam insulation works pretty good.
Or if you have a cooler large enough to hold your fermenter, that will work, throw an old sleeping bag or coat over the top.
Freeze 1 liter bottles of water and swap them out as needed. Fermenting at 62F vs 72 makes a big difference.

 

[kh54s10]

You say that you collected 2.5 gallons of wort then topped up with 2 gallons of water. That totals 4.5 gallons. The recipe was for 5 gallons so your OG would be high. This would give you a higher ABV which would contribute to an "alcohol" taste.

What temperature did the wort reach during fermentation? High temperatures will give you this off flavor.

The beer is definitely not ready yet. Wait another 2 weeks (at least) before you try another. Better yet the couple months already suggested.

 

[Homebrewnewbie190]

If you followed the recipe exactly and had accurate measurement of the water you added the OG was 1.056, just like the recipe states. With extract you can't miss if the recipe is followed. It is very difficult to get an accurate reading of OG when using top off water so just go by what the recipe states.

I figured I would have been close.

Hot alcohol taste often comes from fermenting the beer too warm. The yeast like to go crazy with eating all that sugar and create fusel alcohol which will taste "hot" even in small amounts. The other thing about this that isn't often mentioned is that the fusel alcohol tends to lead to hangover headaches. I like to ferment my ales about 62 degrees for a week, then warm them to low 70's to get the best flavor and quick fermentation.

The room temperature was about 68 degrees but there was a lot of yeast activity the first two days. My guess is that my temps were in the low 70's in the fermenter. I should probably invest in a temperature control or some kind of swamp cooler.

At one week your porter is definitely "green" and the taste will improve with time. I've learned to not expect a good flavor from my porters for 3 months at which time they magically improve. Be patient and be rewarded.

Wow, 3 months. I had no idea porters took so long to mature. I should have probably thought of that before brewing it, lol!

Meanwhile, brew another beer, preferably as light colored and low alcohol as you would want to drink. This beer will mature much faster than the darker, higher alcohol porter you just brewed. I do a pale ale that can be bottled at day 10 (after confirming fermentation is complete by using my hydrometer) and can start drinking it a week after bottling. It will be quite pleasant to drink but lacking a decent head at that point. Waiting another week improves the taste and heading.

Thanks, a pale ale sounds nice! I'll start researching some "easy recipes" and get back to you if I have any questions.

You say that you collected 2.5 gallons of wort then topped up with 2 gallons of water. That totals 4.5 gallons. The recipe was for 5 gallons so your OG would be high. This would give you a higher ABV which would contribute to an "alcohol" taste.

What temperature did the wort reach during fermentation? High temperatures will give you this off flavor.

The beer is definitely not ready yet. Wait another 2 weeks (at least) before you try another. Better yet the couple months already suggested.

I did end up adding 2 gallons of water and also dumped some of the liquid out of the carboy during active fermentation- I probably ended up with about 4 gallons in total wort. I didn't make a blowoff valve and had an airlock overflow. Instead of letting it run its course I dumped some of the liquid out.

I had the apartment at around 68 but my guess is the temperatures went up in the fermenter during fermentation. I'll definitely be waiting a couple more weeks then. Time seems to be the major factor here and fermentation temps!

 

[ncbrewer]

I did end up adding 2 gallons of water and also dumped some of the liquid out of the carboy during active fermentation- I probably ended up with about 4 gallons in total wort. I didn't make a blowoff valve and had an airlock overflow. Instead of letting it run its course I dumped some of the liquid out.

I use a 7.9 gallon bucket for that reason. I always worried about the cleanliness of the blow-off tube - it's hard to clean. Using a larger bucket, I don't need one. I think I'm in the minority, but it works for me.

 

[RM-MN]

The room temperature was about 68 degrees but there was a lot of yeast activity the first two days. My guess is that my temps were in the low 70's in the fermenter. I should probably invest in a temperature control or some kind of swamp cooler.

When I ferment my beer in a 62 degree room the beer temp will creep up to about 64. Higher temperatures mean the yeast work faster and then the beer gets warmer. I'd guess your beer probably reached 72 to 74. The single biggest improvement in my beer came when I started fermenting cooler.

Wow, 3 months. I had no idea porters took so long to mature. I should have probably thought of that before brewing it, lol!

I didn't know that either until I made a robust porter that turned out thin and watery. I was so disappointed in this "robust" porter that was anything but robust but I kept sampling occasionally until one day, about 3 months after brewing the beer, it suddenly became robust. I wish I had known that before I drank 1/2 of the batch. A Russian Imperial Stout with an OG of about 1.090 became much better with time but it took about a year to become really good.

I had the apartment at around 68 but my guess is the temperatures went up in the fermenter during fermentation. I'll definitely be waiting a couple more weeks then. Time seems to be the major factor here and fermentation temps!

While you are waiting, read more here on HomeBrewTalk and brew more beer. You know how now. You'll soon be wanting to go all grain and guess where you find the information on that?

 

[SoCal-Doug]

Whoa... Slow down... Not all porters take months. It very much depends on, like many other styles, the ingredients used. My vanilla porter is great after a week or two, and according to the BJCP ribbons they thought so also.

If you choose to use dank burnt tasting roasted grains (sorry, no offense, I know some people like it that way), it will take a while to lose the harshness and smooth out. Especially those that taste a bit like scorched wort or sugar. Other ingredients can take more or less time to feel the love.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

The room temperature was about 68 degrees but there was a lot of yeast activity the first two days. My guess is that my temps were in the low 70's in the fermenter. I should probably invest in a temperature control or some kind of swamp cooler.

It is a good idea. I finally got a fermentation chamber this month, but for a long time I used a variety of methods to try and control fermentation temps (at least to some degree). Putting your fermenter in a tub of water with a towel will stabilize swings and cool several degrees below ambient. You can throw in ice blocks/frozen jugs to keep the heat from the active yeast under control.

I use a 7.9 gallon bucket for that reason. I always worried about the cleanliness of the blow-off tube - it's hard to clean. Using a larger bucket, I don't need one. I think I'm in the minority, but it works for me.

I mostly ferment my 5 gal batches in a glass carboy that holds a full 7 gals up the the rim (I think it was sold as a 6.5 gal carboy). I get some pretty active fermentation and it has been a long time since I had a blow out.

Whoa... Slow down... Not all porters take months. It very much depends on, like many other styles, the ingredients used. My vanilla porter is great after a week or two, and according to the BJCP ribbons they thought so also.

Agree...for me these ~5% Porters are fast turn around beers that are at their peak in the 1 to 2 months after brewing (maybe a little longer for people that bottle). I am not sure if the 5.2% ABV Porter I have on tap brewed Dec 28 is past peak...or if I am just tired of it and just want to brew it again with some improvements.

 

[dwhite60]

I too have found that any stout or porter I brew is MUCH better after three to four months.

Local homebrew club did a Russian Imperial Stout some years ago of which I got a cut of five gallons. Bottled it all and popped one every now and then They got much better up to about year 15 then degraded quickly. The last one at year twenty wasn't really worth drinking but I had to .

Give it time. I assure you, you'll be surprised.

All the Best,
D. White