Off Flavor Question

[brew703]

I brewed a batch last month with the following GB & hops. Has an off flavor that I have not experienced before. It's not diacteyl, not metallic, not Alcoholic. Hard to explain. It's been in the keg for 2 weeks.

All my hops are stored vac sealed in the freezer. I smelled each package before using and all smelled good, no distinct off flavor noted.
I used 100% RO treated as per Bru N Water.
Mash PH was 5.3. I checked ph before carbing and I think it was 4.25 or in the range. I think i added 2ml of lactic to the mash for ph adjustment.

-If hops smell good could they still produce an off flavor? During fermentation the smell was fantastic.
- I dont normally use Pils malt but wanted to try it in place of 2 Row. Could Pils produce an off flavor?
- I thought it could be my water but I tasted my RO water and it was fine.
- I normally use Warrior or Magnum to bitter but had a little of Columbus left so used it. I think it was from 2017 but has been in my freezer vac sealed and didnt detect any off scent before i used it.
- Lastly, I store my Starsan in a unused keg. It was made back in Nov I believe using RO water. I tested the PH before i kegged this last batch and it was under 3. I'm wondering since this batch of Star San is over 5 months old, wonder if that led to the off flavor.

All my keg lines are flushed with hot water, then BLC, then Star

OG 1.051
FG 1.010

60.5% Pils
25.5% MO
7% Munich
7% C40

.3 oz Columbus @ 45
1 oz Cascade @10
4 oz Cascade WP (170* for 20 min)
2.5 oz Amarillo DH
3.5 Cascade DH

US05 fermented 68-70

 

[Kirkwooder]

It really would help if you could better explain a little better how you perceive the off flavor. There are so many that listing just a few that it doesn't taste like leaves too much room for error in guessing.

Mold, peanut butter, horse blanket, wet cardboard, banana, cidery, grassy, sweaty, clove, licorice, saw dust, acidic....... just to name a few I have heard.

Your recipe looks like it should be decent

 

[brew703]

It really would help if you could better explain a little better how you perceive the off flavor. There are so many that listing just a few that it doesn't taste like leaves too much room for error in guessing.

Mold, peanut butter, horse blanket, wet cardboard, banana, cidery, grassy, sweaty, clove, licorice, saw dust, acidic....... just to name a few I have heard.

Your recipe looks like it should be decent

It doesn't really come across as any you described.
I'll pull another pint later today to see if i can pin point the flavor.

 

[IslandLizard]

Taste a little of that keg stored Starsan?
But then again, carry-over Starsan is so minimal, I doubt it could taint a batch of beer.

Pilsner malts generally need a 90 minute boil to drive off enough DMS. Could that be it?
That said, I had a local craft brewery's Hazy IPA and it was most definitely loaded with DMS. It was mostly noticeable in the aftertaste, after the hop sensation started to fade, a weird flavor resembling cooked celery/cooked tomatoes started to appear. The more you drank the more apparent and the longer it lingered.

 

[Ninoid]

If you use Pilsner from known manufacturers, there is no problem with DMS and with short boil. I made beer with Pilsner who boil for only 5 minutes and cooled naturally overnight and did not feel any DMS.

Maybe some wild yeast enter your fermenter?

 

[brew703]

I did boil 45 min on this one. It was a decent rolling boil so I'm not convinced it's DMS.
I didn't get to taste yesterday but will do so today.

 

[ncbrewer]

I wouldn't rule out infection (called "contamination" these days). It can cause many different off flavors.

 

[kh54s10]

I wonder if you really have an off flavor??U

Pilsner malt will taste different than 2 row.
Columbus will taste different than Warrior or Magnum.
Starsan is unlikely to be the source unless something strange happened. I just topped up my Starsan storage for over 6 years and no problems.

Fermentation temperature of 68-70 or ambient?

Unless you can describe the off flavors more closely, I would say that your beer just tastes different than you are used to.

 

[BrewInspector]

Bad idea to try but a couple guesses here.

Pilsner. It is different from your usual two row. I once made a Pilsner that I thought was "off". I then tasted a local breweries pilsner and it was nearly identical. Could just be a characteristic of the pilsner malt, yeast, and hop combo.

Amarillo hops. They are distinct and not too similar to your previous hop choices. They smell great and can be a strong influence on the taste.

Is there an odor/aroma that is "off" to you?
Sulfur?

 

[Ninoid]

I sometime make Pale Ale with pale malt, but sometime with pilsner, if not have pale. Beers taste same.
I not have experience with 2-row but think that is same as European pale malt.

 

[brew703]

I wonder if you really have an off flavor??U

Pilsner malt will taste different than 2 row.
Columbus will taste different than Warrior or Magnum.
Starsan is unlikely to be the source unless something strange happened. I just topped up my Starsan storage for over 6 years and no problems.

Fermentation temperature of 68-70 or ambient?

Unless you can describe the off flavors more closely, I would say that your beer just tastes different than you are used to.

Ferm temp 68-70, not ambient.
It's hard to describe. I'll revisit when i get back home today and try to come up with a more descriptive taste.
I've brewed with Pils before and didn't notice this taste.
Contamination is always a possibility but i don't think it's likely.
I'll check my StarSan when i get home but i dont think that's what it is.

 

[brew703]

Bad idea to try but a couple guesses here.

Pilsner. It is different from your usual two row. I once made a Pilsner that I thought was "off". I then tasted a local breweries pilsner and it was nearly identical. Could just be a characteristic of the pilsner malt, yeast, and hop combo.

Amarillo hops. They are distinct and not too similar to your previous hop choices. They smell great and can be a strong influence on the taste.

Is there an odor/aroma that is "off" to you?
Sulfur?

No sulfur smell. I don't brew with Amarillo much but I find it hard to believe it's that hop unless the entire pound I bought is bad. it smells good so I don't think that's it.
I know it's difficult to determine a cause with the minimal info I've provided but I went through the list of "off flavors" i found on the net and none of them matched the description of what I am experiencing.
I assume it could be the Pils malt. I'll have to dig deeper into it this weekend.

 

[brew703]

I have an upcoming brew that will be using Cascade and Amarillo but the GB is different. If I cant pinpoint the issue then I may change out the hops for this brew and try something different. Dont want to experience the same thing with this batch.

 

[kh54s10]

Btw, Pilsner, Pale Ale malt, Maris Otter, crystals and most specialty malts are all malted and kilned from 2 row barley.

Pilsner Malt is a type of pale lager malt made from two-row spring barley that is always highly modified (i.e., good protein degradation) during malting and is kilned to an exceptionally blonde color value of no more than 2.5 to 4 European Brewery Convention (EBC; approx.

 

[BrewInspector]

I am not suggesting that the hops (or anything else for that matter) are bad. I have yet to encounter "bad" hops. I have encountered hops that smell great but are not so pleasing to me once added to a beer.

Rather I am thinking that they are flavors you are not accustomed to and may be different from what you might have expected.

 

[Ninoid]

Do not worry. Drink beer and try brew again.