Irish Stout Ode To Arthur, Irish Stout (Guinness Clone)

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fredthecat

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Keep us posted on the brew process.

My SWMBO had a couple of work friends over Friday night and of course I had to give their husbands the brew shop and sampling tour. When we came across this beer, the guys took a swig of the "black gold" and that was it...

They pert near poslished off nearly half a keg in about 30 minutes. It was much more of a success than I would have thought.

i think all homebrewers can agree... i love and need to make beer for myself, but impressing the hell out of others is a big part of it.. cant deny it.

and recipe looks solid, i'd say this is exactly the way to clone guinness from all the recipes i've looked at
 

BetterSense

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When I brewed this, it came out with much more body than I remember Guinness having. I think I started out at like 1.042 and ended up 1.010-11. Thoughts? Do people get a lower final gravity than this, or the same final gravity with less body somehow, or do they just like the extra body?
 

SpookyAlmond

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Brewing this guy tomorrow, but I don't have any EKG on hand. I'll be using cascades (figured it's the closest AA% 'cuz I have summit and centennials too). Not the same, but it should still be darn good.
 

brettwasbtd

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Brewing this guy tomorrow, but I don't have any EKG on hand. I'll be using cascades (figured it's the closest AA% 'cuz I have summit and centennials too). Not the same, but it should still be darn good.
Personally I wouldn't use my cascades for a 60 min bittering addition. Go with the summit at rate that will give you the same IBUs, more economical :)
 

NZLunchie

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Brewed yesterday, hit 1.052 and used Wyeast 1335 - British Ale II.
Had a taste of the OG sample - very roasty just like a black coffee, just how I like my stout!
 

japy

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Hi,

I want to brew this next week. What is the best temperature for the sinla infusion mash 170? Do I have to add additional sugar afther the boiling?
 

JayMac

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I can't wait to make this!

I was just wondering... if I opt to use some 575L roast barley, should I still use the same proportions? In my BS recipe I have 1lb for a 5.5gal batch (65% efficiency... no grain mill!) and the recipe comes out to 4.2% ABV, 32.7SRM, and 30.5 IBU's.

I think it'll be fine, but a little support would make me feel better :) haha
 

Jhoss

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Made WLP004 starter on Friday and brewed today. Hit 1043 preboil and 1051 post. Bubbling away 7 hrs. After pitch. My first batch sparge and no casualties! Thanks all for posting up the info.
 

wfeddern

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Brewed this yesterday, but have been having issues somewhere and ended up about 0.010 short on both brews I did that day, so have a SG of 1.036.

Would it be a good idea to add a bit of sugar to up the alcohol levels a bit? or should I just leave it at 3.5% ?
 

andycr

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Brewing this next, I too fell into the Briess Roasted Barley trap (assumed it was right due to the recipe on page 1 listing 300L). Asking Brewmasters Warehouse to change it if it hasn't been packaged yet, if it has I'll just have a nice creamy dark brown ale instead.
 

brodacious

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Trying to make my goals for the year (60 Gallons) so I'll be squeezing this one it, Hitting My LHBS to pick up the goods for this one.
Planning on Brewing it Sunday using a small sample for a starter then pitching that on Monday.

This will be my 3rd AG (All this month!) The prior two went very well!

Now for my questions:

I've read the entire thread and am a bit confuserated about the 300L vs 500L roasted Barley. Basically what I get from it is: STAY AWAY FROM BRIESS RB?

Also, 12g in a 60 qty... am I going to have to sit next to the burner with my hand on the value the entire time?

Also, (Duh, but just to confirm) Acidulated Malt = Acid Malt?

Thanks BM for the recipe! I'll post updates on how its going..
 

andycr

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My understanding was to use 500L - if I recall correctly from my combing through the thread for the same reason, the creator of the recipe even said so in a later post, but I imagine the recipe was created using software that didn't have 500L in it's database. I went with 500L and the color is perfect - black as night and garnet at the edges. I've yet to bottle it, so jury's out on flavor.

Yes, acidulated malt is acid malt.
 

LTownLiquorPig

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Was going to use this recipe as a base for my first extract + steeping grain batch. My LHBS is about 40 minutes away, but we were in the area last night so I grabbed the ingredients last night. Here's my problem: I reversed the amounts of roasted barley vs. flaked barley. Should I run half as much flaked as I'd planned or should I wait and get the rest? Could I use oats instead?

Thanks for any help!
 

sathrovarr

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Don't you have to use sour guinness for making a clone?
And also, I can't get liquid yeast, what will be the best dry yeast substitute?
 

flyingfinbar

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Is black barley, at 500srm, a suitable substitute for the roasted barley at 300srm, or would it be too astringent? I'd love to brew this, but I'm trying to figure out the color situation.
 

andycr

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I tasted this against Guinness side-by-side. Guinness was on nitro, so that affected my perception. However, they were pretty darn close, but this recipe had a more harsh roast bitterness than Guinness did, and of course was lacking that additional dimension of soured stout flavor. Mine also finished at 1.020, which I'm still going to blame on my mash thermometer being out of true, so I'll aim for a 4 degree lower mash temp this time around.

I saw a video of the Guinness brewery, and interestingly, their wort pre-boil looked blonde when they were taking a gravity reading. I'm guessing they do something unique to the roast barley separate from the mash to avoid harshness.

I'm thinking I'll brew this again within a week or two so it's ready for St. Patrick's day, with two additional changes just for entertainment's sake.

- Mash lower, around 148
- Separate out and cold steep the roasted barley, to try to get that smoother roast bitterness Guinness has
- Sour some Guinness and add late in the boil

Remember folks, if you want this on St. Patrick's day, warm up your mash paddles. It's getting close!
 

mgortel

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I saw a video of the Guinness brewery, and interestingly, their wort pre-boil looked blonde when they were taking a gravity reading. I'm guessing they do something unique to the roast barley separate from the mash to avoid harshness.
I believe Guiness steeps their roasted barley/grains separate to prevent the mash pH from going to low.

ANyone thats has brewed this and had it turn out GREAT....any idea what your mash pH is? I am thinking I shoiuld be shooting for 5.5 to 5.6
 

mgortel

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BTW....I did not see mash details in original post....

60 minutes at 152F sound about right? What have you guys done?
 

CatHead

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BTW....I did not see mash details in original post....

60 minutes at 152F sound about right? What have you guys done?
Just read most of these and later on I am pretty sure that was what he recommended but I also think I saw where he recommended maybe 150f for 75 min.
 

andycr

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Yeah, I would go for drier than 152º here. I went with about 154º, and it finished at 1.020. I'm sure the mash temp was far from the only factor, and it's the second highest finishing brew in my history, but it is supposed to be a dry stout after all. I imagine the flaked barley will help make up for any body lost to low mash temps, and it doesn't need any excess sweetness.

For what it's worth, I'm rebrewing this next and it's getting a 148º mash. But I'm far from an expert, so some salt may be required.
 

hbhudy

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how quickly can this go from Grain to Glass?? If I brew this Feb 1st would it be ready by Mar 17th??
 

starman

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- Separate out and cold steep the roasted barley, to try to get that smoother roast bitterness Guinness has
- Sour some Guinness and add late in the boil
Did you brew your cold steep batch yet? What adjustments did you make to the grain bill?
 

andycr

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Did you brew your cold steep batch yet? What adjustments did you make to the grain bill?
I did indeed, as soon as my pale ale keg kicks it's going in. Should be in around a week before St. Patrick's day, which will be perfect.

Here's the full recipe I ended up with: http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/95301/t22-harp-stout

The Guinness ended up growing fuzz, so I abandoned the sour Guinness idea. Did some pretty hardcore apartment cleaning during it so who knows what flew in it.

Had to add some acid malt to counteract the higher mash PH caused by just mashing the un-roasted grains, which is okay because I didn't end up adding the soured Guinness. Don't think it's enough to taste anyway - it's just above 3%. Doing it again, I would have done a split mineral addition, adding only the PH-lowering minerals during the mash and the rest just before the boil. That would have lowered the amount of acid malt, but it would be a pain in the ass, and why bother when we want some sourness anyway.

The cold steep went well, room temp overnight. Seems nearly as dark as it would be with mashing the roasted barley - very very deep ruby color, should be black in the glass. Hydrometer sample the other day tasted very interesting, had a scotch note to it, but the verdict awaits St. Patrick's day.


 

starman

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Excellent, thanks for the update. I've wanted to play around with a cold steep and was wondering if this would be an appropriate recipe. Too late for mid march consumption but this brew is on deck.
 

andycr

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It's kegged, it's carbed, and it's tested. I'm having a pint of it side-by-side with Guinness for a head to head.

Color: Even with the cold steep, it's the exact same color as Guinness - if anything, it's very slightly darker. The use of whirlfloc even though it's a dark beer gave it the Guinness-style nice crystal clear glint of ruby color coming around the edges of the glass in the light.
Taste: Slightly disappointed. The cold steep seems to have de-emphasized the roasty flavors a little too much. It tastes halfway to a brown ale to me. There's not much of that nice coffee roast flavor in there. The Guinness seems smoother, though I poured mine from a picnic tap and used the syringe trick to get the cascade effect.

An interesting experiment, but I'd stick with the traditional method. I've gotten "holy crap" reactions from Guinness lovers with the original recipe here and the syringe technique - it's the way to go.
 

dp_brew

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whats the carb level people using when you bottle it? i see most people seem to be kegging.
 

Wingnutt73

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Grain/Extract/Sugar
% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
64.9 6.00 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) Great Britain 1.038 3
10.8 1.00 lbs. Roasted Barley Great Britain 1.029 575
21.6 2.00 lbs. Flaked Barley America 1.032 2
2.7 0.25 lbs. Sauer(acid) Malt 1.035 2

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops
Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
2.00 oz. Goldings - E.K. Pellet 5.00 44.8 60 min.

Extras
Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.00 Unit(s)Whirfloc Fining 15 Min.(boil)

Yeast
-----
DCL Yeast S-04 SafAle English Ale


Is this the Extract version for a 5gal Batch? Sure looks like it and man Oh man Do I love me some Guiness. I have a New Castle Clone that I added Vanilla to from BierMuncher in the Primary now. I think that combo may make a nice Black and Tan.
 
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Guinness and Killian's Red are my all time favorite beers (sticking with my heritage I guess) , so thanks for posting.

Two questions though- You said a buttload of starter but didn't specify- how big of a batch of starter did you use?

And two- It doesn't need to be a Killian's clone, but does anyone here know where to find a good Irish Red recipe?
1lb caramel 20 l 1 40+ 1 60 l...and 7 lbs knew amber extract...hallertou ...
 

2xbrewing

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I'm going to do a ten gallon batch of this beer for a picnic i'm having and going to travel with it in corny kegs. What do you think the best way to serve it on Co2 in a picnic? I'll have on ice with a picnic tap what psi should i keep it at? Any suggestions for a more elaborate setups will be appreciated.
Thanks for the help guys!
 

ny101

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So I have brewed this recipe 3 different ways. From my experimentation and tasting side by side with guiness from a can, I can tell you the following:

1) British Ale yeast will get you closer to the AA and flavor than either Irish Ale yeast or British Ale Yeast II.
2) In a side by side comparison, this recipe will exhibit an obvious bitterness over actual Guinness. I suggest a later hop addition or cutting the hops severely.
3) Mashing the Roasted Barley gives this recipe too much of a roasted flavor. I have studied up on this and apparently, Guinness is actually made by mashing the grain separately according to some rumors. This seems to make sense because when mashed with the grains it throws the PH way out of wack, and it also imparts an astringency that while interesting in character, is not present in actual Guinness.

4) If you are not trying to match Guinness very closly, I find this recipe superior in flavor, character, complexity, and aroma. You can safely ignore 1)-3). Bottle conditioned, I think Guinness from a can still has better mouth feel and head appearance / retention. I'm also not sure if I'm being cynical here but I feel like Guinness may be using xantham gum or some other heading agents get better head retention.
 

2xbrewing

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Hey fellas I made this recipe but thought to try adding a lb of honey. How do ya think it will come out.
 

ny101

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I think adding honey is an interesting concept. If I was to worry about anything, I would think that it might end up tasting a little more hot then the style calls for.
 

dphornguy

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Reading all of this, it seems that the concensus is that:

1. This recipe is good and tastes like guinness after a few months of aging.
2. The first few months have a strong acid "twang" until it mellows.
3. The beer has poor head retention.

PErsonally I would like a guinness-sooner brew. Anyone try tweaking the recipe with less acidulated malt up front and adding some other grain for head? Also, I felt that the flavor profile was a little weak and could have more robustness to compare to guinness. Anyone try upping the roasted barley content, lower the acid malt and throwing some carapils or similar in for head retention?
 

ny101

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I think you could probably do it by mashing the roasted barley separately at a lower temp or adding it very late in the mash or for the sparge only.

Some other notes: I had 0 issues with head retention, the original recipe will give you that. The head will stay forever too. It's just not as creamy as what they have with Guinness...

I also discovered that as long as you pour the beer very rigorously, you will get similar mouthfeel as well.
 

smagic14

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For 10 gallons Biermuncher said a "massive starter" from the different online calculators I have been seeing anywhere from 2 to 3.5 liters.

What size did you guys use?

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Home Brew mobile app
 

CaptainArgo

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I'm trying to create a Guinness clone for my friend who LOVES the stuff. From what I gather, this is a bit roastier than standard nitro Guinness (possibly just because it isn't on nitro?), and I've been contemplating ways to smooth the flavor out to mimic the standard nitrogen-ized Draught product while keeping the beer very dark.

It was helpful to see the experiment with cold steeping since that was one thing I had thought of, but it sounds like it didn't quite come out as intended. One idea I stumbled on, though... has anyone tried swapping maybe half the roasted barley for some de-bittered / de-husked Carafa III? I know it's a German product and not necessarily part of the actual recipe, but it sounded like the less sharp roasted flavor and very dark color might help a non-nitrogen brew come closer to the smoothness of a regular nitro-tapped Guinness. Is there anyone who has used Carafa III that can comment on whether the flavor would be appropriate?
 

brodacious

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By the Gods I love this friggen beer.


I brewed it last year as my 3rd AG and first 10 gallon batch.
My old apartment was limited on space and 2 carboys in the spare bedroom in a large bureau thing.
Due to having only a single thermostat which resided in the apartment upstairs, the room reached over 90 while I was away.
1 of the carboys tasted so terrible I dumped it. The other was a friggen dream.
Not sure if it was an infection or the heat or what.
Had a st.pats party and the 5 gallons evaporated quite quickly.
The keezer was just raw wood and I kept joking how it was a fully-operations-battle-star.


Broke it out again for the 2nd annual St.Pats party this coming Sat due to popular demand. I was storing this beer in my back room with the thermo set to 65 and the beer fermented out at that until I went skiing and came back to 50 degree beer and a hosed thermo. IDK if thats what caused it but I finished high at just a shade under 1.02. Tasted good and I was running out of time so I said Eff it and kegged it.

Just poured it off nitro and my I must say, its fan-****ing-tastic.
Its SPOT on to the original. I'm going to have to get a few nitro cans and do a side-by-side.:tank:

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