Odd taste in a few batches!

[Bw1985]

Hi all,

I have a question regarding a couple of brews I did last fall. I plan to brew in the next week or so, and want to avoid running in to the same problem.

I had made a couple batches successfully with my friend (an experienced brewer) and they tasted fantastic (some variants on English bitter ales). I then attempted to brew on my own, and up until the point of bottling everything seemed great. The beer fermented as expected, my OG and FG numbers were on par for what I expected, but there was a weird sour taste in my beers. Hard to pinpoint what it was, but I made a stout and an IPA all of which I had to dump. Not sure if it was acetaldehyde or not, I’m unfamiliar with how odd that would taste. I was sure that everything was sanitized well (over sanitized if anything). The only issue was I may have rushed the process and didn’t secondary ferment.

So my question is, was this perhaps an issue of not using a secondary or giving the beer enough time, or contamination? Could it have been a water pH issue (I didn’t measure). Just wondering if there are precautions I could take for the next batch.

I’m still a newbie, so any advice is appreciated.

Cheers!

 

[rburrelli]

We would need to know more about your processes to give any solid advice. One thing.... sanitizing is not the same as cleaning.

 

[Bw1985]

We would need to know more about your processes to give any solid advice. One thing.... sanitizing is not the same as cleaning.

How specific would you like me to be? One thing to note is that everything tasted good when I sampled throughout the process, even prior to bottling. Beers had plenty of head and carbonation too. They had a weird sour aftertaste that made them undesirable to drink. Both recipes were completely different, yet the “off” taste was the same. I just fermented in the same bucket for 2 weeks and then bottled. I did not transfer to a carboy for secondary.

 

[NTBeer]

What water did you use? Distilled, RO, spring? Or just tap water? If it is tap, could be chloramine from your water system. Add Campden to tap to correct that, or switch to another water source. Not using a secondary won't cause any issues unless you leave it really long (like 9 months long).

 

[Bw1985]

Yes, I did use tap water so perhaps that was the issue. I just realized it may have gone through a garden hose as well. Yikes. At my friends place we also took tap water but directly. So should I just use campden to tap water as a default?

 

[NTBeer]

Yes, 1/2 a crushed tablet in 5 gallons. Dirt cheap and works almost instantly. Certainly ditch the garden hose for anything you'll drink as well. It's fine for process water (chiller, etc) but could certainly leave an aftertaste in anything you're drinking.

 

[TheMadKing]

Can you describe the flavor a bit better? Like associate it with something else that's sour? Such as tart lemon, funky/cheesy sour milk, musty sour apples, clean sour yogurt, etc?

If the flavor didn't appear until you bottled, then an infection is entirely possible, and sourness is characteristic of an infection. What are you using for a sanitizer? Acid sanitizers taste sour as well, but you would need a lot in order to taste it in your finished beer (like a few tablespoons in the bottom of each bottle I would think.

 

[Bw1985]

Yes, 1/2 a crushed tablet in 5 gallons. Dirt cheap and works almost instantly. Certainly ditch the garden hose for anything you'll drink as well. It's fine for process water (chiller, etc) but could certainly leave an aftertaste in anything you're drinking.

Okay, that sounds good! My local brewing store sells bag of 50g tabs. I will pick some up.

Can you describe the flavor a bit better? Like associate it with something else that's sour? Such as tart lemon, funky/cheesy sour milk, musty sour apples, clean sour yogurt, etc?

If the flavor didn't appear until you bottled, then an infection is entirely possible, and sourness is characteristic of an infection. What are you using for a sanitizer? Acid sanitizers taste sour as well, but you would need a lot in order to taste it in your finished beer (like a few tablespoons in the bottom of each bottle I would think.

The taste was a bitter almost apple like flavor that hits like a nasty aftertaste. I used the Star San and had my bottles soaking in it. It’s possible I didn’t not rinse them out enough, thought I don’t think that much sanitizer made it into the bottles.

 

[TheMadKing]

Okay, that sounds good! My local brewing store sells bag of 50g tabs. I will pick some up.




The taste was a bitter almost apple like flavor that hits like a nasty aftertaste. I used the Star San and had my bottles soaking in it. It’s possible I didn’t not rinse them out enough, thought I don’t think that much sanitizer made it into the bottles.

So first things first, you don't rinse star san - that's just asking for an infection. It's a no-rinse sanitizer and don't fear the foam!

Apples is a good indicator of acetaldehyde but I wouldn't really call it sour - more bitter cider-like I would say. I've had an english bitter that got oxidized turn apply very quickly - and that may be what's happened to you. Gross oxidation is harder to avoid when bottling, but not impossible. British ale yeasts generally don't like being bottled either, and if you have used WY1968, it is known for producing a cider-like flavor with bottle conditioning.

Water issues, or infection may also explain it - without identifying the off-flavor it's really hard to know for sure.

Some things to keep in mind for next time that should hopefully correct for all of the variables:

• Use 100% RO water if you can
• Don't rinse your star san
• Make sure you pitch a good healthy amount of yeast
• Allow the beer to fully ferment before bottling
  • two identical hydrometer readings taken 2-3 days apart
• try to transfer to your closed bottling bucket carefully and with minimal splashing
• Stir your priming sugar solution in well, but don't stir so vigorously that you introduce air

 

[Bw1985]

Thanks for all of your advice. This has been educational! Are there any more tips to avoid oxidization?

My bottling bucket may also have been open when I transferred to it. I guess that’s a big no-no also.

If I switch to RO water, is there anything I need to add? And I guess with that don’t bother with campden?

Also, I need to deep clean all of my brewing equipment. I’ve heard oxyclean works well, would I need to go as far as bleach? Should I soak for a day or something along those lines? Mash tun included?

 

[VikeMan]

If I switch to RO water, is there anything I need to add? And I guess with that don’t bother with campden?

Yes, when brewing all grain with RO water, you need to build the water by adding salts and (often) an acid (like lactic acid or phosphoric acid), in order to hit an appropriate mash pH, to add appropriate flavor ions, and to ensure adequate calcium for yeast flocculation. Note that you might want to build your mash and sparge/kettle additions separately.

And I guess with that don’t bother with campden?

Correct. Unless you are using it for LODO purposes.

 

[Bobbybob]

Also, I need to deep clean all of my brewing equipment. I’ve heard oxyclean works well, would I need to go as far as bleach? Should I soak for a day or something along those lines? Mash tun included?

Bleach is more on sanitization side of things just rinse well. You can use bleach as a “cleaning agent” but oxyclean free would be better.
Honestly it sounds more like an infection to me. How did you sanitize you buckets.

 

[TheMadKing]

Bleach is more on sanitization side of things just rinse well. You can use bleach as a “cleaning agent” but oxyclean free would be better.

I would strongly recommend against bleach unless you have no other options, or you are "bleach bombing" to kill a stubborn infection or mold.

 

[Ridenour64]

You mention that your fermenting in a bucket and that along the way you were taking samples. If I was fermenting in a bucket, I wouldn’t remove the lid at all until it came time to bottle/ keg, not even for gravity readings. When you go to bottle, take a gravity reading then to make sure you hit at or near FG and allow enough time in the bucket to ensure fermentation is complete. Id say 2/3 weeks.

 

[ncbrewer]

You mention that your fermenting in a bucket and that along the way you were taking samples. If I was fermenting in a bucket, I wouldn’t remove the lid at all until it came time to bottle/ keg, not even for gravity readings. When you go to bottle, take a gravity reading then to make sure you hit at or near FG and allow enough time in the bucket to ensure fermentation is complete. Id say 2/3 weeks.

It depends on your priorities. I agree with minimizing the times you open the fermenter, but my first priority is safety. I take a sample two days before bottling day and again on bottling day to be sure the gravity is stable. I've had three batches that were very slow to finish. If I hadn't checked, I would have had bottle bombs. I understand I'm giving up a little quality, but to me, it's worth it.

 

[Ridenour64]

I had a saison that took a very long time to finish out as well. Emphasis on only opening the lid as many times as needed. Ultimately it comes down to knowing the beer style and your strain of yeast.

 

[stevehardt]

How long did you let it ferment and condition?

 

[Stormcrow]

I had a taste similar to what you describe appear in my first two batches. I sanitized well, but when it came time to bottle, I just warmed up a little tap water (we have a well) in the microwave for my priming sugar instead of boiling it. It's possible i was giving my beer a mild infection in the process. That might not have been the culprit, but now I always bring the sugar solution to a quick boil on the stove and let it cool for a little bit before mixing it in. Haven't had the problem since. I'm also more careful about oxygen exposure during bottling.