obscure recipe ingredients

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

ESROHDE

Member
Joined
May 5, 2008
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
I have recently aquired some old recipes that have some ingredients I am not familiar with. My questions are, what are these ingredients, can they be substituted, if so with what, or can they be eliminated all together. The ingredients are: 35 grns. saccharine 550 and burnt sugar and block juice. Any assistance or info would be greatly appriciated. thanks
 

sconnie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
122
Reaction score
1
Saccharine is fake sugar, like splenda or equal. Some old recipes used it for residual sweetness. I'd skip it.
Burnt sugar is probably exactly what it sounds like.
No idea what block juice is.
How old is this recipe? Is it "historical" or just a homebrew recipe that was concocted before quality ingredients were widely available? Judging by those ingredients, I might reconsider why you want to brew it, but that's just me.
 

Revvy

Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
41,296
Reaction score
3,727
Location
"Detroitish" Michigan
Is that "Block Juice" or "Black Juice?"

Is this a recipe for an historical porter perhaps?

If it is a porter, then Burnt Sugar could be “esentia bina” which is produced by burning a mixture of mollases and Sugar in a cast iron pan and dissolving it in boiling water. Black juice could be another name for "Spanish Juice" which is extracted from boiling liccorice roots. Both ingredients were pretty common in the brewing of early porters.

You can make both of those ingredients. Look at the december issue of Zymurgy, there's a great article on brewing a historical porter at Colonial WIlliamsburg, including their recipe...Which has directions for making both esentia bina and Spanish juice.
 
OP
E

ESROHDE

Member
Joined
May 5, 2008
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
the recipe goes like this 1 oz. balm, 5 oz. dandelion herb, 5oz. ground ginger, 2oz. block juice, 35grns. sacchrine 550, 2 1/2 lbs. sugar, 10 gal. water. This recipe comes from Mrs. Maude Grieves Culinary Herbs and Condiments Copyright is 1934 The Recipe is called Dandelion Stout
 

Revvy

Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
41,296
Reaction score
3,727
Location
"Detroitish" Michigan
the recipe goes like this 1 oz. balm, 5 oz. dandelion herb, 5oz. ground ginger, 2oz. block juice, 35grns. sacchrine 550, 2 1/2 lbs. sugar, 10 gal. water. This recipe comes from Mrs. Maude Grieves Culinary Herbs and Condiments Copyright is 1934 The Recipe is called Dandelion Stout

Can't help you....Even google just gives the same recipe over and over or quotes the same line about Dandelion Stout being a favorite of working people.....but no one bothers to define block juice.....My thought is that since it's a stout is really is Spanish Juice, or boiled liccorice roots...but that's only conjecture on my part.
 

david_42

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2005
Messages
25,582
Reaction score
189
Location
Oak Grove
I'd agree with Revvy, block juice is probably stick licorice.
 

mr_goodwrench

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2008
Messages
884
Reaction score
8
Location
Auburn, GA
Everything I have found on burnt sugar is called burnt sugar syrup. The recipes all call for equal parts sugar and water. In a heavy iron skillet, heat the sugar over medium-high heat till it begins to melt. Reduce heat to low and cook till sugar is melted and dark golden brown (about 5 minutes more). Stir with a wooden spoon as necessary after sugar begins to melt (as mixture bubbles). Very carefully add the hot water, stirring to dissolve the sugar. Heat to boiling; reduce heat and boil gently for 3 minutes.
 

mr_goodwrench

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2008
Messages
884
Reaction score
8
Location
Auburn, GA
According to 'The Science of Sugar Confectionery' by W.P. Edwards, "block juice is a solid block, resembling coal, but with the overpowering liquorice flavour and bitter-sweet taste." As far as where to find it, I did a bit of searching and couldn't find any. You might be able to use licorice extract as a substitute.
 
OP
E

ESROHDE

Member
Joined
May 5, 2008
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
thank you all for the info I will skip the sacchrine but i have access to fresh licorice as well as extract, I will give the burnt sugar a try and let you know how it went
 

sconnie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
122
Reaction score
1
the recipe goes like this 1 oz. balm, 5 oz. dandelion herb, 5oz. ground ginger, 2oz. block juice, 35grns. sacchrine 550, 2 1/2 lbs. sugar, 10 gal. water. This recipe comes from Mrs. Maude Grieves Culinary Herbs and Condiments Copyright is 1934 The Recipe is called Dandelion Stout
Is this the entire recipe, or is there malt as well? This alone would hardly be beer...
 
OP
E

ESROHDE

Member
Joined
May 5, 2008
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
Yes this is the whole recipe. I am currently experimenting with some older recipes that do not include malt in the original recipe. I plan to add malt to some degree as well as hops. But I am still formulating the recipes at this time. If any one has any interest in these old recipes I have quite a collection.
 

nl724

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
150
Reaction score
0
Location
Huntsville
Saccharine is fake sugar, like splenda or equal. Some old recipes used it for residual sweetness. I'd skip it.
Burnt sugar is probably exactly what it sounds like.
No idea what block juice is.
How old is this recipe? Is it "historical" or just a homebrew recipe that was concocted before quality ingredients were widely available? Judging by those ingredients, I might reconsider why you want to brew it, but that's just me.
Just a little side note:

Sweet 'n Low = Saccharine
Equal = Aspartame
 

Revvy

Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
41,296
Reaction score
3,727
Location
"Detroitish" Michigan
I found a couple of Dandelion Beer recipes on other forums....Interesting...

1 lb. lt. DME
4 oz. clover honey
1/5 oz. tettnanger pel hops
1 qt. dried dandelion flowers
1/4 tsp. gypsum
1/8 tsp. calcium chloride
4 g Windsor ale yeast
1/2 tsp yeast nutrient

Pour boiling water over the flowers and steep for at least 24 hours then strain off the debris and boil the water with the other ingredients.

#2

1lb weed leaves, blossoms and roots, chopped and rinsed for 5 gal.
Recipe otherwise is
6#pale lme
1/2 #crystal 60
1/2#toasted 2 row
Steep grains, then add dandelions and lme then Bring to boil,

add
cascade 1/4oz 60min
1oz EKG flavor
1/2 oz Willamette aroma
1/2 oz Willamette dry hop
og 1040, fg 1010

Can't vouch for either of them, though...
 

zoebisch01

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
5,180
Reaction score
14
Location
Central PA
About the Balm and Dandelion. There are many types of 'Balm' such as Bee Balm, Lemon Balm...etc. and they are all going to have very different flavors. I'd imagine Bee Balm would seem to fit well. Now the Dandelion...I'd imagine a preparation from the root fitting more than the flower or leaves in the Stout.
 

DUCCCC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2007
Messages
1,618
Reaction score
47
According to 'The Science of Sugar Confectionery' by W.P. Edwards, "block juice is a solid block, resembling coal, but with the overpowering liquorice flavour and bitter-sweet taste." As far as where to find it, I did a bit of searching and couldn't find any. You might be able to use licorice extract as a substitute.
There's "Coal Candy" available at various places onine, like http://www.hometownfavorites.com/products.asp?dept=1075&number=HFCA450, but this is probably pretty highly sweetened compared to what you're describing.
 

Revvy

Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
41,296
Reaction score
3,727
Location
"Detroitish" Michigan
There's "Coal Candy" available at various places onine, like http://www.hometownfavorites.com/products.asp?dept=1075&number=HFCA450, but this is probably pretty highly sweetened compared to what you're describing.
I found a recipe to make your own "Coal Candy" (Never head of this tuff before.) It's anise which has a slighlty different taste than licorrice.

Coal Candy

by the Editors of Easy Home Cooking Magazine

Yield: Makes about 1-1/2 pounds
Ingredients: 2cups sugar
3/4cup light corn syrup
1/2cup water
1teaspoon anise extract
1/2teaspoon black paste food coloring


Preparation: 1.Line 8-inch square baking pan with foil, extending edges over sides of pan. Lightly grease foil with butter; set aside. Measure sugar, corn syrup and water into heavy 2-quart saucepan. Stir over medium-low heat until sugar is dissolved and mixture comes to a boil, being careful not to splash sugar mixture on side of pan. Carefully clip candy thermometer to side of pan (do not let bulb touch bottom of pan). Cook about 15 minutes until thermometer registers 290°F, without stirring. Immediately remove from heat. Stir in anise extract and food coloring. Pour mixture into prepared pan. Cool completely.
2.Lift candy out of pan using foil; remove foil. Place candy between 2 layers of heavy-duty foil. Pound with mallet to break candy into 1- to 2-inch pieces.
 

Finn

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2007
Messages
202
Reaction score
2
Location
Albany, Oregon
Just a little side note:

Sweet 'n Low = Saccharine
Equal = Aspartame
another little side note -- DON'T USE ASPARTAME IN BREWING! Sustained warm temps cause it to convert to something really, really nasty. This is the voice of experience here!

Sucralose is OK though.
 

nl724

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
150
Reaction score
0
Location
Huntsville
another little side note -- DON'T USE ASPARTAME IN BREWING! Sustained warm temps cause it to convert to something really, really nasty. This is the voice of experience here!

Sucralose is OK though.
What is sucralose??
 
Top