Oats in extract brew?

[Ollie Higgins]

Hi all,

Attempting my second ever brew next weekend, so dont worry about feeling patronising when you answer!

I'm going to be doing a malt extract ipa, and want to add some oats to give a creamier mouthfeel. I've had a look online in various places and still not sure exactly how this will work in practice. My current thinking is that id do a sort of mini mash with the oats, but have read that that won't work without some other malt - can i put a bit of the malt extract im going to use in with the oats, then after the mash bang the whole concoction into the wort - will this work, or do i need to get some actual grain malt in with the oats?

If so, can anyone help with quantities? Was thinking 10% oat, so c.3kg malt extract + 300g oats for a 5gallon batch?

 

[bracconiere]

hmm, you need malt enzymes to convert the starch to sugar. And that would have to be a malt with diastatic power, not crystal malt. But if all your looking for is body, and your only using 300g's. could try and put it in a hop bag? boil it with the hops?

just an idea.

 

[RM-MN]

The oats will be starchy and unless mashed with a base malt (pale malt, brewers malt, pilsner, etc) will leave you with a hazy beer that will never clear. If the haze doesn't bother you, go ahead and cook the rolled oats first, then add them. The cooking first will get you a creamier mouthfeel.

Doing a mini mash with the oats is really easy. If you add the base malt (well crushed or ground) to water that falls within the range of 148 to 158 when the grains have been added to it, the starches will be converted to sugars. The amount of time needed depends on how well the grains are milled.

 

[Ollie Higgins]

The oats will be starchy and unless mashed with a base malt (pale malt, brewers malt, pilsner, etc) will leave you with a hazy beer that will never clear. If the haze doesn't bother you, go ahead and cook the rolled oats first, then add them. The cooking first will get you a creamier mouthfeel.

Doing a mini mash with the oats is really easy. If you add the base malt (well crushed or ground) to water that falls within the range of 148 to 158 when the grains have been added to it, the starches will be converted to sugars. The amount of time needed depends on how well the grains are milled.

Thanks - when you say base malt, would it work with the liquid extract im using, or would need to be actual grain?

 

[Ollie Higgins]

hmm, you need malt enzymes to convert the starch to sugar. And that would have to be a malt with diastatic power, not crystal malt. But if all your looking for is body, and your only using 300g's. could try and put it in a hop bag? boil it with the hops?

just an idea.

If this would work in giving fuller body then this sounds much more straightforward than doing a separate mash beforehand.. are my suggested quantities too small?

 

[RM-MN]

Thanks - when you say base malt, would it work with the liquid extract im using, or would need to be actual grain?

It has to be the actual grain as that is where the enzymes are. By the time it is made into extract, all the enzymes are dead.

 

[Ollie Higgins]

It has to be the actual grain as that is where the enzymes are. By the time it is made into extract, all the enzymes are dead.

Gotcha - so put flaked oats, base malt and water in the pot, get to mash temp and hold for the required time period, then sparge it into a separate brewpot, put the malt extract in, top up with water if necessary and carry on as if i was just doing a normal extract brew?

 

[RM-MN]

Gotcha - so put flaked oats, base malt and water in the pot, get to mash temp and hold for the required time period, then sparge it into a separate brewpot, put the malt extract in, top up with water if necessary and carry on as if i was just doing a normal extract brew?

Change the order of these. Heat the water first, then stir in the grains. If you have the grains in while heating there may be a big temperature gradient unless you stir constantly and vigorously and that can kill some or all of the enzymes.

 

[bracconiere]

If this would work in giving fuller body then this sounds much more straightforward than doing a separate mash beforehand.. are my suggested quantities too small?

i wasn't saying that your quantity was to little. just that it was small enough that, it wouldn't contribute much to gravity anyway. it would the difference of like 1.004 OG, converting it or not...

so if you just want the oat flavor, and not any significant gravity from it?

 

[Ollie Higgins]

i wasn't saying that your quantity was to little. just that it was small enough that, it wouldn't contribute much to gravity anyway. it would the difference of like 1.004 OG, converting it or not...

so if you just want the oat flavor, and not any significant gravity from it?

Yeah, all im after from the addition of oats is the mouthfeel to be honest

 

[Lefou]

Your base malt can be American two row barley, Pilsner, Vienna, or malted wheat. Those four usually have the higher enzyme levels you'd need to do a quick grain mash with oats. They won't contribute much color but will convert just fine.

 

[yourlastchance89]

If you are set on not adding a base malt, you could add the amylase anzymes straight up and mash the oats with the added enzymes at a rest temp. Some homebrew shops sell them

 

[estricklin]

Best option would be to buy some malted oats. They have the enzymes you need, and the flavor and mouthfeel you want. Put them into a bag or strainer in 150F? water for 15 minutes or so, you should be good.

 

[Yooper]

I wouldn't use oats without base malt (or malted oats). Starch does more than create haze- a starchy beer can go bad fast. If you drink fast, that's no problem. Maybe not an issue since it's a small amount, but unconverted beta glucans can feed gut bacteria, making, um, terrible gastric aromas for your family and friends to bear. But it's not harmful.

The easy fix is just to use the same amount of crushed pilsner malt or other two-row as oats, and hold at 150-155 for 45 minutes to an hour before proceeding.

 

[Tall_Yotie]

Many responses with a lot of great info! Thank you. I am used to using oats in my all grain beer, and the extract thing is oddly new to me being that I haven't done it since I started. I will either use some enzyme to convert it, or just ignore it and assume that extract on its own usually tends to have a bit of that thicker mouth feel then all green usually. Thanks for all the thoughts and information!

 

[IslandLizard]

Many responses with a lot of great info! Thank you. I am used to using oats in my all grain beer, and the extract thing is oddly new to me being that I haven't done it since I started. I will either use some enzyme to convert it, or just ignore it and assume that extract on its own usually tends to have a bit of that thicker mouth feel then all green usually. Thanks for all the thoughts and information!

We have a very recent and active thread on using flaked/rolled/instant/quick oats in extract brews:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/extract-using-quick-oats-no-grains-to-mash.726832