Oatmeal Stout

[rodwha]

Working on my next 2 recipes and wanted to finally make a good stout. My first was heavily hopped with citrusy hops which clashed, and my oatmeal coffee stout had my mash temp get away from leaving it sickly sweet.

This is the 5.5 gal partial mash/partial boil recipe I have so far:

4 lbs ultralight LME (FO)
2 lbs 2-row
1 1/4 lb oatmeal
3/4 lb crystal 90
1/2 lb black roasted
1/2 lb chocolate
1/2 lb carafoam
1/4 lb black patent
1/4 lb soft white wheat berries
1 oz Warrior @ 70 mins
US-05

1.053/1.011
5.6% ABV
50 IBU's
38 SRM

How much rice hull would you need for this? maybe 3/4 lb?

 

[flars]

Looks like a very high percentage of unfermentables. Maybe tonight I maight have time to see how it looks in the free version of Brewtoad.

 

[m00ps]

I see 75% base malts, so that not a ton of unfermentables. I couldnt find wheat berries, but here's my number plugged in with 75% efficiency. Color looks good for a stout

I'd add in a bit more oats for closer to 80% base and toast a pound of them in the oven to make the oatmeal cookie flavor pop. You could take the crystal down to 0.5 lb if you wanted the stout to be a bit more balanced.

Im not sure youd need any rice hulls since there isnt much huskless material there. Just the oats and berries right? I've usually only seen people using those for large amounts of rye and wheat

 

[rodwha]

I dropped 1/4 lb of the crystal for oatmeal.

I thought oats need rice hulls too?

The wheat berries get torn up (parts nearly powdered) by the Blendtech, but I'm 99.9% certain I have a grain mill waiting for unwrapping soon enough!

 

[rodwha]

I use flaked wheat for wheat berries. Not really sure what the difference is.

 

[rodwha]

I think the lone hop addition gave me on IBU/OG of something like .98. Will this be terrible? I was just going by the calculated IBU's of 50, which isn't that high for a stout, and it seems the majority comes from the bittering addition.

 

[rodwha]

Not needing rice hulls I added 1/2 more 2-row as I can only handle ~6.5 lbs of grains in my colander.

This would give me 50 IBU's with .91 IBU/OG ratio with 5.8% ABV.

 

[m00ps]

I think youll be fine with 1oz at the start of the boil. I usually just do somethign like that for stouts or 1oz at the start and 1 oz at 20min of a much more mild hop, The roast flavors will cover up the hop addition anyway. You could do 3/4oz if you are worried though

 

[rodwha]

I'm just not sure how it will come across, but the calculator is nearly flashing ULTRA BITTER at me! Good thing I have the volume down as it's probably screaming or berating me too!

I had actually entertained the idea of a 1 oz Willamette addition at 7 mins too...

 

[mrdail87]

I'm just not sure how it will come across, but the calculator is nearly flashing ULTRA BITTER at me! Good thing I have the volume down as it's probably screaming or berating me too!

I had actually entertained the idea of a 1 oz Willamette addition at 7 mins too...

How high I'd the IBU? I brew a pretty similar stout that's 69 and isn't overpowering. Actually, when I added oats to the recipe it came out milder than I usually like my stouts.

 

[Hoosierbrewer]

I do not use any black patent in mine. 1lb oats and 3/4 lb of chocolate, roasted barley and Munich. 1/4 lb crystal 60. 1lb flaked oats. 5-6 lbs light dme would replace my base grains

 

[Yooper]

Working on my next 2 recipes and wanted to finally make a good stout. My first was heavily hopped with citrusy hops which clashed, and my oatmeal coffee stout had my mash temp get away from leaving it sickly sweet.

This is the 5.5 gal partial mash/partial boil recipe I have so far:

4 lbs ultralight LME (FO)
2 lbs 2-row
1 1/4 lb oatmeal
3/4 lb crystal 90
1/2 lb black roasted
1/2 lb chocolate
1/2 lb carafoam
1/4 lb black patent
1/4 lb soft white wheat berries
1 oz Warrior @ 70 mins
US-05

1.053/1.011
5.6% ABV
50 IBU's
38 SRM

How much rice hull would you need for this? maybe 3/4 lb?

That's a lot of "stuff". Do you really need roasted malt, black patent, chocolate, carafoam and wheat berries?

I'd simplify- alot! I'd lose the carafoam for sure, the black patent and possibly the chocolate, unless you know exactly what they would bring and why you'd need them. I'd definitely get rid of the wheat berries (whatever they are).

Instead of all that stuff, I"d think about what you want- a dry, bitter stout? Or, a creamy rich stout? And start from there and get rid of much of the extras.

One nice addition is flaked barley- great head retention and body, and no need for any carafoam or other dextine malts.

I'd cut the bittering hops alot.

 

[tgmartin000]

That's a lot of "stuff". Do you really need roasted malt, black patent, chocolate, carafoam and wheat berries?

I'd simplify- alot! I'd lose the carafoam for sure, the black patent and possibly the chocolate, unless you know exactly what they would bring and why you'd need them. I'd definitely get rid of the wheat berries (whatever they are).

Instead of all that stuff, I"d think about what you want- a dry, bitter stout? Or, a creamy rich stout? And start from there and get rid of much of the extras.

One nice addition is flaked barley- great head retention and body, and no need for any carafoam or other dextine malts.

I'd cut the bittering hops alot.

Just brew yoopers oatmeal stout instead, you'll be glad you did.

 

[rodwha]

It shows 50 IBU's with the one oz of Warrior.

I began by looking at what MoreBeer's kits contain and work off of it as a baseline. That's how much their typical stout kits contain (black patent and roasted barley) for a 5 gal. I've never used black patent.

I suffer from head retention problems that cannot be from my glasses as I soak them in a jar of Star-San and give 'em a scrub with a sponge, rinse, and set in the dishwasher on the dry cycle. I've been targeting ~5% carapils/carafoam and using at least 1/4 lb of soft white wheat berries that I chew up in a blender. SWMBO bought me a 25 lbs bag of them, and so it doesn't count against my monthly hobby $$$ so I will utilize it if I want to add a few points.

Here's a conversation about wheat berries:

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=12468.0

I certainly don't know for sure what all of what I included would bring, but I know I love a roasty stout. As for dry or creamy, I'm not certain what it is exactly with the many stouts I've had, but I like them all. My understanding is that they aren't that dry though. I figured I'd mash a little higher (~158* or so).

What is the difference between flaked barley and cara...?

I'm unsure of what to do with my hop schedule. It seems most stouts have a high rate of IBU's, but I also see that many don't have much of a flavor/aroma addition. Since Warrior was so high I opted not to have any.

I'll take a look at Yooper's oatmeal stout.

 

[rodwha]

I buy my stuff from MoreBeer, and as far as dark roasty grains they carry:

Briess chocolate
Crisp pale chocolate
Briess black patent
Birds black roasted barley
Briess blackprinz
Simpsons coffee malt

I initially was going to make an oatmeal coffee stout, but figured it may be better to make them individually. I am not against combining them though.

This is the ingredients sheet for MoreBeer's oatmeal stout:

10 lbs 2-Row
8 oz Crystal 120L
8 oz Black Roasted
8 oz Chocolate
4 oz Black Patent
4 oz White Wheat
4 oz Carapils
1 lb Flaked Oats
Hops:
1.5 oz Northern Brewer ● Bittering Hops boiled for 60 minutes
1 oz British Kent Goldings ● Aroma Hops are boiled the last 1 minute

 

[rodwha]

I'm at a loss for why my recipe has a bit too much going on, that I should simplify it. It's not much different than many of the recipes I see, which is why I made it the way I did.

 

[mrdail87]

I'm at a loss for why my recipe has a bit too much going on, that I should simplify it. It's not much different than many of the recipes I see, which is why I made it the way I did.

It is a tad more complicated than the average recipe. I don't think it's that bad though. I usually try to limit my own recipes to 4 specialty, but I've still got a few that are an exception to the rule.

The reason why it's good to try and keep things simple though, is easy to understand if you compare brewing to cooking.

Most dishes will benefit from around 2-4 different spices. Sure there are exceptions, but the more spices you add on top of that the more muddled the flavors get, and then less your signature flavors from your spices come through. Same goes with brewing.

 

[Yooper]

It is a tad more complicated than the average recipe. I don't think it's that bad though. I usually try to limit my own recipes to 4 specialty, but I've still got a few that are an exception to the rule.

The reason why it's good to try and keep things simple though, is easy to understand if you compare brewing to cooking.

Most dishes will benefit from around 2-4 different spices. Sure there are exceptions, but the more spices you add on top of that the more muddled the flavors get, and then less your signature flavors from your spices come through. Same goes with brewing.

Yes, that's a large part of it. But also, there is the fact that there is only 2.5 pounds of base grain in the mash, and 4 pounds of specialty grains. While some of the grains may not need conversion, and I didn't calculate out the diastatic power in the mash, the oats alone mean there could be conversion problems and a starch haze if there isn't enough base grain to convert all of the specialty grains.

Also, while each of the dark grains has its own character, I'm not sure you could pick up the benefits of so many different ones.

Oats are nice and creamy, and those may come through but 1/4 pound of wheat berries, and 1/4 pound of this and that may not- and really the recipe seems to be lacking flaked barley or other body/head retention grains and has too much going on.

I don't know what impact wheat berries have on a beer, as I've never used them. Maybe a nutty note? But I assume they are unmalted and require conversion- and without enough base grain in the mash I'm unsure if that will happen with all of the other specialty grains in there. It's just a mix of specialty grains that don't have specific reasons for being in there. If the black patent is for an ashy flavor, and the chocolate is for the roasty flavor, etc, then that's all ok, but if you don't know WHY stuff is in there, then it's just stuff in there, if that makes sense.

 

[rodwha]

I thought I posted my revision... Here it is:

4 lbs LME (FO)
2.25 lbs 2-row
1.25 lbs oatmeal
1 lb flaked barley
1/2 lb black roasted barley
1/2 lb crystal 90
1/2 lb Briess chocolate
1/4 lb black patent
1/4 lb wheat berries
2 oz Mt Hood @ 70 mins

1.055/1.011
5.8% ABV
40 IBU's 38 SRM

I'm using the wheat berries merely to raise the ABV a little as I'm sure a pound of flaked barley is plenty for head retention.

I also swapped out the Warrior for Mt Hood to reduce the IBU's a bit.

If I had a larger colander, or if I were prepared to build a 5 gal mash tun (I cannot seem to find SS fittings at Lowe's or Home Depot???) I'd up the 2-row, but 6.5 lbs is about the limit for me to sparge with little chance for a mess (I use a colander propped on my brew pot with my spoon).

And I am wanting to build the 5 gal mash tun as I'm not happy with mine, though I have considered trying to improve it by filling the little gaps with more expanding foam and styrofoam to fit to the pot lid. I don't mind losing a couple of degrees but 5-6* is a bit too much. And the pot gets stuck (heat expanding the pot for a compressed fit maybe?) in the koozie when it's time to pour it out.

 

[mrdail87]

Looks all good to me.

On a separate note, if you want to make 5-gallon all grain batches down the road, go with a 10 gallon mashtun. I made the mistake of getting 5 gallon for partial mashes and immediately had to upgrade.

 

[rodwha]

I've considered this, but as it is and will be for at least 1.5 years, even a 5 gal volume has a good bit of dead space. If I used a 10 gal cooler I'd likely suffer from the extreme temp drops I am now.

I certainly do not want to brew outside, and I'm not certain that I'll be able to get more than the 6-6.5 gal max boil capacity to work anyway. If I were to do all-grain (and I have made 2.5 gal all-grain recipes a few times now) I could just reduce my volume to maybe 4 gals with a 5 gal cooler I'm guessing.

And if/when I do upgrade to a 10 gal cooler I'd think I could reuse all of the inner parts and only need to replace the cooler itself.

 

[Yooper]

I'm using the wheat berries merely to raise the ABV a little as I'm sure a pound of flaked barley is plenty for head retention.

.

If you don't have enough base grain to convert all of the specialty grains, the ABV won't be raised- as starch won't make alcohol. I'd definitely run this through some brewing software before brewing, to ensure you have enough diastatic power for conversion. Also, mash a bit longer since oats can sometimes take 75-90 minutes to get full conversion, especially in a thick mash or one with lower diastatic power.

 

[rodwha]

Is 2.25 lbs of 2-row not enough to convert 1.25 lbs of oats and 0.25 lb of wheat?

I'm guessing flaked barley has no diastatic power?

I'm guessing it might be beneficial to keep the 2-row together with the oats and wheat, and maybe the flaked barley too when I add them to my grain bag?

 

[mrdail87]

Is 2.25 lbs of 2-row not enough to convert 1.25 lbs of oats and 0.25 lb of wheat?

I'm guessing flaked barley has no diastatic power?

I'm guessing it might be beneficial to keep the 2-row together with the oats and wheat, and maybe the flaked barley too when I add them to my grain bag?

Oats, flaked barley, and wheat have no diastatic power. It's hard to say if that'll be enough 2-row to convert it without using something like beersmith. That being said I've heard of people actually steeping oats and flaked barley without ill effects. So you might get full conversion, but I would think you're in the clear here.

I would sub the 2-row for 6-row if you have it available to you. 6-row has a higher DP.

 

[rodwha]

I had no idea that flaked barley needed 2-row. I'll have to reconsider this and may just go back to using carafoam as I had it designed with or I may drop the oatmeal and move on to coffee.

The only other way I can think of that I could continue on would be to steep what I can to give me more space for 2-row. But I don't think I have anything big enough to do that as I'm using my 7-8 gal pot to brew in, my 5 gal pot to mash in, and a 5 qt pot to hold my sparge water along with my gal pitcher. Maybe my 2 qt starter/priming sugar pot would hold enough...

6-row is another avenue, but would that likely give me enough to convert everything? And how would that effect the flavor? I'm not so enamored with this idea as this recipe shares grains with a Cascadian Dark that I'll be brewing about that time. I'll have to look over the totals to see if there's a single pound I can swap out or something.

 

[rodwha]

I could swap out a pound of 2-row for 6-row. Would that give me enough diastatic power?

 

[rodwha]

"I'd definitely run this through some brewing software before brewing, to ensure you have enough diastatic power for conversion. Also, mash a bit longer since oats can sometimes take 75-90 minutes to get full conversion, especially in a thick mash or one with lower diastatic power."

All of the mashing terminology and whatnots have been over my head for the most part, which is why I do a more simplistic BIAB type of mash. I know it works, though maybe it is why I have issues with certain things such as head retention as it's not my glasses.

I tried the month free trial of Beersmith as everyone seems to tout is as the best, but it just seemed overly complicated and I only looked at it which wasted my free trial. Even if I had software to do so I'd likely be lost.

I've been doing my mashes in an unusual way by adding my strike water, stirring, and covering for 7 mins to get an idea of the temp measured in the center and edge. After checking I stir again and set a timer for 35 mins checking and stirring again followed by another 35 mins. My mashes are set at 1.5 qt./lb as I like to have ease of stirring and knowing all of my grains are well covered.

 

[mrdail87]

6 row should give you enough power. And don't worry about hurting your flavor, it tastes like 2-row and you've got plenty of that in your extract. And with all the specialty grains, I guarantee you won't be able to tell the difference.