Nothing happening with SafCider TF-6

[Fixerman]

We did our annual apple pressing on Sat, treated the two 5-gal carboys pictured below with Campden tablets. Around 26 hours later, I pitched SafCider TF-6 into the carboy on the left and SafCider AS-2 into the one on the right. Both were added directly from the packet. Three days later, the AS-2 is going gangbusters; nothing is happening with the TF-6. Basement temp is 63F, well within the TF-6 range. OG was 1.046 @ 62 degrees. My inclination would be to add yeast nutrient to the TF-6. Unfortunately, I don't have any and there are no homebrew stores anywhere around here in central Vt. I'll order what I need from Brewhardware, but not sure what I should do in the meantime. Bring the carboy up to the main floor where the temp is 66-67? Rack it into a keg, charge and purge to retain freshness, then rack back into carboy when the nutrient arrives? Or just leave it where it is and do nothing other than cover it back up? Also, I figured I'd order another packet of TF-6 and pitch that with the nutrient. Thoughts?
-Rich

 

[Chalkyt]

Interesting outcome with TF6. When the "new" Fermentis yeasts came out a few years ago I did some comparison test batches and didn't really see much difference between them despite the PR about ester profiles etc. Each batch had DAP added and they all finished around SG 1.000.

The reason for mentioning this is that if you haven't seen it (Google should find it) there is an article by Etienne Dorignac from Fermentis "Creating unique cider profiles with new yeast strains". It says that "The strain SafCider™ TF-6 clearly stands apart from the other strains as it was not able to finish the fermentation and typically left ~25 g/L of sugars, among which fructose was a major part". There is a graph in the article that shows TF6 was slower to get going than the other yeasts and stopped at around SG 1.010. Part of the reason for TF6 "sweetness" might be that if it stalls there is then some residual sugar.

This is a bit of rough supposition on my part, but it suggested to me that TF6 is somewhat nutrient (i.e. YAN) dependent as is sometimes the case with ale yeasts like S04. I am aware that apples from old, late season, unfertilised trees (like my small orchard) can be low in YAN and so fermentation can stall due to depletion of nutrient.

Does your pressing fall into this category? In any case you may well find that adding nutrient will rev things along, and if it does you will at least understand why.

Cheers!

 

[Fixerman]

Thanks a lot for your post. The apples were from a huge orchard (12,000 very healthy trees) in central Vermont. The mix I pressed included Cortland, Honeycrisp, Pixie Crunch, Snowsweet, Macoun, and Liberty along with large crabapples from an old neglected tree. I'm torn between ordering a packet of AS2 since it's doing so well in the other fermenter or going with another TF6 and nutrient. I don't know anything about the various nutrients. Any ones in particular you'd recommend?

 

[Chalkyt]

I am certainly no expert on nutrients as I just use DAP (a chemical compound) which provides 20% nitrogen, and it works for me. I understand that a products like Fermaid derive some nitrogen from sources other than DAP as well as including thiamine (vitamin B1) which is described as a yeast energiser, but I haven't used Fermaid. According to the literature, Fermaid O (O for organic) doesn't contain DAP but Fermaid K does, so there may be a case for using one or the other with difficult fermentations. I plan to try Fermaid A (a new product similar to Fermaid K and developed for Australian wine-makers).

The current thinking seems to be to allow yeast to use up much of the "natural" YAN (Yeast Assimilable Nitrogen) in the juice before adding external nutrients. This gives the yeast a boost towards the end of the fermentation in order to avoid stalling.

Perhaps others who have used Fermaid or similar nutrient compounds could comment.

 

[Fixerman]

I am certainly no expert on nutrients as I just use DAP (a chemical compound) which provides 20% nitrogen, and it works for me. I understand that a products like Fermaid derive some nitrogen from sources other than DAP as well as including thiamine (vitamin B1) which is described as a yeast energiser, but I haven't used Fermaid. According to the literature, Fermaid O (O for organic) doesn't contain DAP but Fermaid K does, so there may be a case for using one or the other with difficult fermentations. I plan to try Fermaid A (a new product similar to Fermaid K and developed for Australian wine-makers).

The current thinking seems to be to allow yeast to use up much of the "natural" YAN (Yeast Assimilable Nitrogen) in the juice before adding external nutrients. This gives the yeast a boost towards the end of the fermentation in order to avoid stalling.

Perhaps others who have used Fermaid or similar nutrient compounds could comment.

Very helpful info. Thx!

 

[Fixerman]

Good news. Finally, 3-1/2 days after pitching, some activity with the TF6. No airlock activity yet, but it's clearly on the way.

 

[Mark3885]

I have 5 gallons that I used Nottingham ale yeast ,only yeast I had on hand . It took 48 hours before any activity and is still a slow bubbling at 21/2 weeks later. Going to leave it on the yeast for a total of 6 weeks.

 

[Fixerman]

Closing the loop on this... TF-6 is performing quite well in terms of yeast activity; it just took 4 days to get going. AS-2 was cranking in 2 days.