New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

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Cryo only beers tend to lack some body, are less hazy, tend to taste one dimensional. Will still taste fine but there’s a reason why the best of the best still use plenty of t90 in their beers.

At our scale loss is far less impactful. To increase your volume by a gallon with be only 2 - 2.5 lbs of grain in cost. Or is your loss concern more about equipment volume restrictions
Yes it is a volume restriction for DIPA and TIPA with 6+ lb/bbl
 
Right - for a 1.080 beer with 12-16oz of dry hop you really need about 6.5 gal of wort into the fermenter if you want a full 5 gal into the keg. (That’s 7.5 post boil for me) this might sound rediculous to some or obvious to others.

So I think the answer is just more volume to account for loss, not necessarily cryo. Like others I really like cryo/lupo/advanced hop product in the 20-50% range it seems like it helps the hops pop and come across as more concentrated but you can’t get rid of all the natural hop material out of the beer, it does something to the beer that is intangible(maybe?) and necessary for a full hop expression.
 
Right - for a 1.080 beer with 12-16oz of dry hop you really need about 6.5 gal of wort into the fermenter if you want a full 5 gal into the keg. (That’s 7.5 post boil for me) this might sound rediculous to some or obvious to others.

So I think the answer is just more volume to account for loss, not necessarily cryo. Like others I really like cryo/lupo/advanced hop product in the 20-50% range it seems like it helps the hops pop and come across as more concentrated but you can’t get rid of all the natural hop material out of the beer, it does something to the beer that is intangible(maybe?) and necessary for a full hop expression.
Interesting. I recently bought some Citra and Ekuanot hop hash that was on sale at YVH. I was thinking of brewing a hazy later this summer using Citra hash/Nectaron T90 hop combo. Sounds like mixing in some Citra T90 in addition to the Citra hop hash is the way to go.
 
Right - for a 1.080 beer with 12-16oz of dry hop you really need about 6.5 gal of wort into the fermenter if you want a full 5 gal into the keg. (That’s 7.5 post boil for me) this might sound rediculous to some or obvious to others.

So I think the answer is just more volume to account for loss, not necessarily cryo. Like others I really like cryo/lupo/advanced hop product in the 20-50% range it seems like it helps the hops pop and come across as more concentrated but you can’t get rid of all the natural hop material out of the beer, it does something to the beer that is intangible(maybe?) and necessary for a full hop expression.
12-16oz DH?? Holy shiiiii....I shoot for 7 gal of wort into my fermenter, and if I do 8oz+ DH I have issues getting a full 5 gal into the keg!
 
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12-16oz DH?? Holy shiiiii....I shoot for 7 gal of wort into my fermenter, and if I do 8oz+ DH I have issues getting a full 5 gal into the keg!
Welp just do the math… 6 lbs per barrel is about 3 oz per gal. 6.5 gal in fermenter actually that’s 19 oz ! You’re gonna loose a gallon (or a little more) to the dry hop and half a gallon to yeast. That’s 5 gallons into a keg. If you wanna say 4lbs/bbl that’s gonna be a 13 oz DH and the volumes are similar, a little less loss of course.
 
I personally get 6 into the fermenter, rack to a dryhoping vessel with 13-15 oz of hops and yield exactly a full keg so 5.15 gallons. Equipment def will have different levels of loss. With my setup and the floating diptube, I got my loss down to 13-15%
 
Ive made 100% Cryo NEIPA's many times without any impact on head retention, body, haze or haze stability. My NEIPA's have been awarded multiple Gold, Silver and Bronze medals as well as a couple Mini BOS's, so there is plenty of eveidence that Cryo works, at least for me. I wouldn't hesitate to suggest use of Cryo for a NEIPA where such a large hop load can lead to intense hopburn and organic slickness.

If you want, try 100% Cryo in the dryhop and regular T90 in the kettle.

My $.02
 
What is the general opinion on using 100% cryo hops in a recipe? Will it taste "cryo"? Any downside? I would really like to reduce my beer loss.

I saw a recipe (Oak Flower Hazy IPA) using 100% citra cryo win the NHC 2023 silver in hazies

Ive made 100% Cryo NEIPA's many times without any impact on head retention, body, haze or haze stability. My NEIPA's have been awarded multiple Gold, Silver and Bronze medals as well as a couple Mini BOS's, so there is plenty of eveidence that Cryo works, at least for me. I wouldn't hesitate to suggest use of Cryo for a NEIPA where such a large hop load can lead to intense hopburn and organic slickness.

If you want, try 100% Cryo in the dryhop and regular T90 in the kettle.

My $.02
 
12-16oz DH?? Holy shiiiii....I shoot for 7 gal of wort into my fermenter, and if I do 8oz+ DH I have issues getting a full 5 gal into the keg!
I’m also typically around 16oz. 5# per bbl = (5x16) x 6.5 / 31 = 16.77 oz.

If you’re making beer you’re happy with, with 8oz, god bless you.

For those using a conical, I find that keeping a close eye on that sight glass really helps. With a small amount of pressure the hops eventually start to compact and essentially squeeze out a good amount of liquid. Drop small amounts at a time. I’ve been able to significantly reduce waste by refining process.
 
What is the general opinion on using 100% cryo hops in a recipe? Will it taste "cryo"? Any downside? I would really like to reduce my beer loss.

I saw a recipe (Oak Flower Hazy IPA) using 100% citra cryo win the NHC 2023 silver in hazies
Found the article I was looking for.

If you want to read some Janish about the two, here you go. Lupulin powder is unpelletized cryo

http://scottjanish.com/lupulin-powder-vs-pellets-experiment/
 
Maybe a stupid question but how do you guys calculate your lb/bbl of hops.

With volume in fermenter? Volume in fermenter minus trub? Volume in dry hop vessel? Serving keg volume?
 
Maybe a stupid question but how do you guys calculate your lb/bbl of hops.

With volume in fermenter? Volume in fermenter minus trub? Volume in dry hop vessel? Serving keg volume?
Volume at the time of adding the hops. That’s really the only way to accurately do it (you could certainly subtract the trub if you have a reliable and accurate way to measure it). So if your fv has 6 gallons at the time of dryhoping, that should be the volume you use. This is true on the hotside as well
 
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Volume at the time of adding the hops. That’s really the only way to accurately do it (you could certainly subtract the trub if you have a reliable and accurate way to measure it). So if your fv has 6 gallons at the time of dryhoping, that should be the volume you use. This is true on the hotside as well
100% agree.

While on this topic, I’m curious how everyone is measuring for water chemistry. For those of you who measure mash volume and add salts to that kettle, are you doing the same to the HLT (or sparge water)?

I don’t think there’s a right or wrong way to do this. Just curious what method everyone is using.
 
For those using a conical, I find that keeping a close eye on that sight glass really helps. With a small amount of pressure the hops eventually start to compact and essentially squeeze out a good amount of liquid. Drop small amounts at a time. I’ve been able to significantly reduce waste by refining process.
Do you think this will help if fermenting in a keg with a floating dip tube? I am sick over all the lost beer😫 What kind of pressure would be needed? How does pressure affect 1318/Verdant or what do you use?
 
While on this topic, I’m curious how everyone is measuring for water chemistry. For those of you who measure mash volume and add salts to that kettle, are you doing the same to the HLT (or sparge water)?

I've done Ward's labs a few times and the results are always similar. I put them into a calculator and add for mash volume accordingly (be sure you revise it for each beer and don't leave it left from the last one). I do a proportional amount for the sparge as well.

There are probably better ways but this is easy and seems to be working. I (think that I) can tell when I totally revise ratios and otherwise repeat a recipe.
 
100% agree.

While on this topic, I’m curious how everyone is measuring for water chemistry. For those of you who measure mash volume and add salts to that kettle, are you doing the same to the HLT (or sparge water)?

I don’t think there’s a right or wrong way to do this. Just curious what method everyone is using.
I do not add salts to the kettle, all salts going in the mash and sparge. The only kettle adjustments I ever make are ph related. Since targeting a 5.2 - 5.25 mash ph I rarely ever need to adjust and hit 5.0 - 5.05 at knock out
 
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Last week I brewed a quick and dirty Mikshake IPA with Voss at about 35oC that went from grain to keg in 4 days.
Started tapping it 2 days later.
SWMBO was out of town for 5 days so was the best brew I could think of to have a fully completed beer before she came back.
I cut a few corners on brew and packaging days
Did a true BIAB without a spage/rinse so ended up with about 1.064 OG instead of 1.070 - FG was 1.019
I also skipped a dry hop and didn't fully purge the keg; I just connected it to the gas and burped it a few times then filled, did the same after filling.
Drinking it now after 5 days on the gas and it tastes pretty good.
The hops are not really as instense as if I didn't cut the corners but I'm happy with it.
Let's see if it oxidises or rapidly looses it's hop flavour over the next weeks, if it lasts that long :)

1717079280452.png
 
I know this is likely a poor idea, but I'll ask in case anyone has attempted this before.....

As I posted before with my setup, I ferment in a keg with a floating dip tube etc. Has anyone tried putting a traditional liquid out dip tube on the gas-in side and used CO2 to agitate dry-hops when they settle? I have another entry for gas-in to purge and transfer when needed.

The two issues I see with this would be the obvious kick-up of yeast and trub, as well as doing this with spunded/slightly carbed beer. I figure the latter would be mitigated by keeping the vessel pressurized and using slightly higher psi to agitate and letting it equalize. A short burst, if you will.

The former is not ideal, but I'm not sure if it would be too detrimental if I let everything settle again. I'm not harvesting.
 
I wasn't sure where to ask this but as a lot of people on here are trying their best to reduce oxygen for this beer style I thought I'd post it here.

Anyone ever heard of no-ox malt from this supplier of any other?

https://brouwland.com/en/malts/20676-belgomalt-no-ox-25-45-ebc-25-kg.html

Below is their explaination; is this just marketing BS or would this type of malt potentially have a benefit for an NEIPA?
Would the types of off flavours you get from mashing oxidation be different than what we are trying to achieve for this style and the large hop load would cover up these flavours anyway?
Sounds like it might just be useful for a pilsner that has no fruity hops/yeast to hide any off flavours.

1717582264442.png
 
I know this is likely a poor idea, but I'll ask in case anyone has attempted this before.....

As I posted before with my setup, I ferment in a keg with a floating dip tube etc. Has anyone tried putting a traditional liquid out dip tube on the gas-in side and used CO2 to agitate dry-hops when they settle? I have another entry for gas-in to purge and transfer when needed.

The two issues I see with this would be the obvious kick-up of yeast and trub, as well as doing this with spunded/slightly carbed beer. I figure the latter would be mitigated by keeping the vessel pressurized and using slightly higher psi to agitate and letting it equalize. A short burst, if you will.

The former is not ideal, but I'm not sure if it would be too detrimental if I let everything settle again. I'm not harvesting.
You could certainly do this but you could also just simply pick up the keg and flip it over and few times during the dryhop and gain better results
 
I wasn't sure where to ask this but as a lot of people on here are trying their best to reduce oxygen for this beer style I thought I'd post it here.

Anyone ever heard of no-ox malt from this supplier of any other?

https://brouwland.com/en/malts/20676-belgomalt-no-ox-25-45-ebc-25-kg.html

Below is their explaination; is this just marketing BS or would this type of malt potentially have a benefit for an NEIPA?
Would the types of off flavours you get from mashing oxidation be different than what we are trying to achieve for this style and the large hop load would cover up these flavours anyway?
Sounds like it might just be useful for a pilsner that has no fruity hops/yeast to hide any off flavours.

View attachment 850154
I’ve done LODO (used to waste a ton of co2 purging the mash tun for 75 minutes of mashing) and non-LODO and haven’t noticed a difference between the two for a NEIPA. Probably about 20 LODO batches and 50 non LODO. I think as long as you aren’t severely oxidizing the wort on the hot side the lipoxygenase issue won’t show up. I would think a Pilsner would be more susceptible to this issue. However the lipoxygenase issue I believe has been resolved over the last few decades due to proper modification of the malt
 
I’ve done LODO (used to waste a ton of co2 purging the mash tun for 75 minutes of mashing) and non-LODO and haven’t noticed a difference between the two for a NEIPA. Probably about 20 LODO batches and 50 non LODO. I think as long as you aren’t severely oxidizing the wort on the hot side the lipoxygenase issue won’t show up. I would think a Pilsner would be more susceptible to this issue. However the lipoxygenase issue I believe has been resolved over the last few decades due to proper modification of the malt
OK, yeah I was also thinking the hot side is more important for an NEIPA.
I'll be dropping by Brouwland sometime over the Summer and they have a sack of normal pilsner from the same malster for 25% less so I'll pick up a few sacks of that for brewing light hoppy beers.
 
I remember when this thread first started and now it's at 474 pages! Wow! Kudos to everyone that has contributed.

I would love to hear your favorite recipe at the moment! I've been tasked to brew a batch for our neighborhood block party next month and I'm trying to put together a banger to impress the neighbors! Thanks in advance to those that respond!
 
Was a long time contributor to this thread. Started homebrewing in 2016 and spent countless hours on this site. From 2019-2021 I brewed one beer 40 or so times with plenty of info I’d gleaned from threads like this. The goal was to try to brew something lowish in ABV that punched well above its weight. Opened my brewery in September 2021 and this is our house beer. Available all the time and all around town. We brew it once a week at times when we’re busy. We have some dumb liquor laws here in UT so max ABV on draft can only be 5%. Sounds weird but I’ve actually grown to really appreciate it.

Anyways this beer is called Dopo and it recently just scored a 95 in the latest Craft Beer and Brewing summer IPA issue. The print edition didn’t include any notes on it but the online version did. It was tied for highest score in the “session IPA” category. I hate the term Session IPA so we call these beers L IPAs (pronounced Lie P A) cause a 5% IPA is a lie. Thought I’d give everyone very detailed recipe on exactly how we brew this beer. We brew a few versions with different hops so substitute your favorite hop combo as you see. We change the hops up on this beer all the time but this is what we submitted back in March.

If you love hops and hop saturation but want something a little lower in ABV I think you’ll really appreciate this.

OG 13p
FG 3.6p
5% ABV

Water Profile
Ca 100ppm
We use 2:1 CaCl to CaSo4 by weight to hit this target Ca amount using RO water. We do equal additions of salts to the mash and then with 10 minutes left in the boil. We also add NaCl at 10 minutes left in the boil targeting 50ppm Na.

Grain Bill:
2row Base Malt
20% Simpsons Golden Promise
7% Carafoam
2% Simpsons Caramalt
Acid as you see fit to hit 5.4 mash pH with the above salts
- We’ve started using a localish base malt called Mountain Malt. We were Rahr 2 row forever but this new malt has better extract and a slightly sweeter profile.

Mash

45 minutes at 155
20 minutes at 162
Mash out at 168

Recirc until as clear as possible

Boil for 90. Target 5.4 start of boil pH

- we are at almost 7000 ft in elevation so we have to boil longer due to our boil temp being 201. 60 minutes might be fine at sea level.

Hop additions

60 minutes
Simcoe for 14 IBUs
10 minutes
Nelson for 8 IBUs
WP -180/185
3/4lb / bbl
Nelson, Simcoe 3:1

Citric/Lactic Acid blend at 5min target 5.0 KO pH with whirlfloc addition.

Yeast: VT Ale. We use something i banked when I was a homebrewer. Closest thing is Bootleg Classic New England.

Pitch at 64 with ALDC & Zinc
target .75mil/ml/*plato
Aerate at 16ppm o2
Ferment at 66 for 2-3 days. Set to 70 when gravity hits 5p. Give 2 days at terminal then cool to 58 for 18-24 hour. Harvest yeast

Dry Hop at 2.5lbs/bbl
60:40 Mosaic:Nelson
Rouse from racking arm the next day to break up hop rafts on top.

Start slowly cooling after 48 hours on hops and dumping hops as often as you can.

Carbonate to 2.62 volumes.

The boil additions are key as is the NaCl and rest at 162.

We make a version with Nectaron, Nelson, Riwaka called Laser Kiwi and one with 586, Citra, Idaho7, and a dab of 1019 called Divi. We’ll substitute malted oats for the Carafoam sometimes or use NA pils as a base instead of 2row, or some Carahell instead of Caramalt but percentages are generally always the same.

Lots of details and clearly you have to have the gear to do everything but I know lots of folks on here do as I did when I was homebrewing.

Enjoy
 
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Was a long time contributor to this thread. Started homebrewing in 2016 and spent countless hours on this site. From 2019-2021 I brewed one beer 40 or so times with plenty of info I’d gleaned from threads like this. The goal was to try to brew something lowish in ABV that punched well above its weight. Opened my brewery in September 2021 and this is our house beer. Available all the time and all around town. We brew it once a week at times when we’re busy. We have some dumb liquor laws here in UT so max ABV on draft can only be 5%. Sounds weird but I’ve actually grown to really appreciate it.

Anyways this beer is called Dopo and it recently just scored a 95 in the latest Craft Beer and Brewing summer IPA issue. The print edition didn’t include any notes on it but the online version did. It was tied for highest score in the “session IPA” category. I hate the term Session IPA so we call these beers L IPAs (pronounced Lie P A) cause a 5% IPA is a lie. Thought I’d give everyone very detailed recipe on exactly how we brew this beer. We brew a few versions with different hops so substitute your favorite hop combo as you see. We change the hops up on this beer all the time but this is what we submitted back in March.

If you love hops and hop saturation but want something a little lower in ABV I think you’ll really appreciate this.

OG 13p
FG 3.6p
5% ABV

Water Profile
Ca 100ppm
We use 2:1 CaCl to CaSo4 by weight to hit this target Ca amount using RO water. We do equal additions of salts to the mash and then with 10 minutes left in the boil. We also add NaCl at 10 minutes left in the boil targeting 50ppm Na.

Grain Bill:
2row Base Malt
20% Simpsons Golden Promise
7% Carafoam
2% Simpsons Caramalt
Acid as you see fit to hit 5.4 mash pH with the above salts
- We’ve started using a localish base malt called Mountain Malt. We were Rahr 2 row forever but this new malt has better extract and a slightly sweeter profile.

Mash

45 minutes at 155
20 minutes at 162
Mash out at 168

Recirc until as clear as possible

Boil for 90. Target 5.4 start of boil pH

- we are at almost 7000 ft in elevation so we have to boil longer due to our boil temp being 201. 60 minutes might be fine at sea level.

Hop additions

60 minutes
Simcoe for 14 IBUs
10 minutes
Nelson for 8 IBUs
WP -180/185
3/4lb / bbl
Nelson, Simcoe 3:1

Citra/Lactic Acid blend at 5min target 5.0 KO pH with whirlfloc addition.

Yeast: VT Ale. We use something i banked when I was a homebrewer. Closest thing is Bootleg Classic New England.

Pitch at 64 with ALDC & Zinc
target .75mil/ml/*plato
Aerate at 16ppm o2
Ferment at 66 for 2-3 days. Set to 70 when gravity hits 5p. Give 2 days at terminal then cool to 58 for 18-24 hour. Harvest yeast

Dry Hop at 2.5lbs/bbl
60:40 Mosaic:Nelson
Rouse from racking arm the next day to break up hop rafts on top.

Start slowly cooling after 48 hours on hops and dumping hops as often as you can.

Carbonate to 2.62 volumes.

The boil additions are key as is the NaCl and rest at 162.

We make a version with Nectaron, Nelson, Riwaka called Laser Kiwi and one with 586, Citra, Idaho7, and a dab of 1019 called Divi. We’ll substitute malted oats for the Carafoam sometimes or use NA pils as a base instead of 2row, or some Carahell instead of Caramalt but percentages are generally always the same.

Lots of details and clearly you have to have the gear to do everything but I know lots of folks on here do as I did when I was homebrewing.

Enjoy

Dang man. I inadvertently found cheap hotels to go ski Park City in I think 21 or 22 when Sundance was cancelled at the last minute. Went to Offset every day. Have definitely seen your posts on here over the years and had no clue it was yours. Absolutely loved your beer and you definitely do more with the 5% draft limit than anyone else in Utah. I was mainly killing your lagers... you don't see a draft list like that in ski towns very often.
 
Was a long time contributor to this thread. Started homebrewing in 2016 and spent countless hours on this site. From 2019-2021 I brewed one beer 40 or so times with plenty of info I’d gleaned from threads like this. The goal was to try to brew something lowish in ABV that punched well above its weight. Opened my brewery in September 2021 and this is our house beer. Available all the time and all around town. We brew it once a week at times when we’re busy. We have some dumb liquor laws here in UT so max ABV on draft can only be 5%. Sounds weird but I’ve actually grown to really appreciate it.

Anyways this beer is called Dopo and it recently just scored a 95 in the latest Craft Beer and Brewing summer IPA issue. The print edition didn’t include any notes on it but the online version did. It was tied for highest score in the “session IPA” category. I hate the term Session IPA so we call these beers L IPAs (pronounced Lie P A) cause a 5% IPA is a lie. Thought I’d give everyone very detailed recipe on exactly how we brew this beer. We brew a few versions with different hops so substitute your favorite hop combo as you see. We change the hops up on this beer all the time but this is what we submitted back in March.

If you love hops and hop saturation but want something a little lower in ABV I think you’ll really appreciate this.

OG 13p
FG 3.6p
5% ABV

Water Profile
Ca 100ppm
We use 2:1 CaCl to CaSo4 by weight to hit this target Ca amount using RO water. We do equal additions of salts to the mash and then with 10 minutes left in the boil. We also add NaCl at 10 minutes left in the boil targeting 50ppm Na.

Grain Bill:
2row Base Malt
20% Simpsons Golden Promise
7% Carafoam
2% Simpsons Caramalt
Acid as you see fit to hit 5.4 mash pH with the above salts
- We’ve started using a localish base malt called Mountain Malt. We were Rahr 2 row forever but this new malt has better extract and a slightly sweeter profile.

Mash

45 minutes at 155
20 minutes at 162
Mash out at 168

Recirc until as clear as possible

Boil for 90. Target 5.4 start of boil pH

- we are at almost 7000 ft in elevation so we have to boil longer due to our boil temp being 201. 60 minutes might be fine at sea level.

Hop additions

60 minutes
Simcoe for 14 IBUs
10 minutes
Nelson for 8 IBUs
WP -180/185
3/4lb / bbl
Nelson, Simcoe 3:1

Citra/Lactic Acid blend at 5min target 5.0 KO pH with whirlfloc addition.

Yeast: VT Ale. We use something i banked when I was a homebrewer. Closest thing is Bootleg Classic New England.

Pitch at 64 with ALDC & Zinc
target .75mil/ml/*plato
Aerate at 16ppm o2
Ferment at 66 for 2-3 days. Set to 70 when gravity hits 5p. Give 2 days at terminal then cool to 58 for 18-24 hour. Harvest yeast

Dry Hop at 2.5lbs/bbl
60:40 Mosaic:Nelson
Rouse from racking arm the next day to break up hop rafts on top.

Start slowly cooling after 48 hours on hops and dumping hops as often as you can.

Carbonate to 2.62 volumes.

The boil additions are key as is the NaCl and rest at 162.

We make a version with Nectaron, Nelson, Riwaka called Laser Kiwi and one with 586, Citra, Idaho7, and a dab of 1019 called Divi. We’ll substitute malted oats for the Carafoam sometimes or use NA pils as a base instead of 2row, or some Carahell instead of Caramalt but percentages are generally always the same.

Lots of details and clearly you have to have the gear to do everything but I know lots of folks on here do as I did when I was homebrewing.

Enjoy
Wow very cool of you to circle back around and share all these details with us! I love a detailed write up like this, so your efforts are very much appreciated! Congrats on the great review by CBB! https://beerandbrewing.com/review/offset-bier--dopo-1710424461/

I remember when you started this brewery (from your posts here) and I still think of you as the guy that likes his hazies without wheat or oats! Ha

I’ll follow your recipe exactly. Can you clarify some points? Is that a WP of 0.75 lb/bl at 180-185? What’s the WP contact time? I can chill so fast I must not get the same extraction as big systems with a long contact time.

What do you think for yeast alternatives? Would another Conan strain work? The pics of it look pretty milky hazy, would LA3 be an alright sub?
 
Dang man. I inadvertently found cheap hotels to go ski Park City in I think 21 or 22 when Sundance was cancelled at the last minute. Went to Offset every day. Have definitely seen your posts on here over the years and had no clue it was yours. Absolutely loved your beer and you definitely do more with the 5% draft limit than anyone else in Utah. I was mainly killing your lagers... you don't see a draft list like that in ski towns very often.

Awesome

Thanks for the kind words! Means a lot
 
Wow very cool of you to circle back around and share all these details with us! I love a detailed write up like this, so your efforts are very much appreciated! Congrats on the great review by CBB! https://beerandbrewing.com/review/offset-bier--dopo-1710424461/

I remember when you started this brewery (from your posts here) and I still think of you as the guy that likes his hazies without wheat or oats! Ha

I’ll follow your recipe exactly. Can you clarify some points? Is that a WP of 0.75 lb/bl at 180-185? What’s the WP contact time? I can chill so fast I must not get the same extraction as big systems with a long contact time.

What do you think for yeast alternatives? Would another Conan strain work? The pics of it look pretty milky hazy, would LA3 be an alright sub?

Due to our kinda small system in order to max it out and brew more beer we brew everything slightly high gravity and then dilute to lower WP temp and hit are target while being able to max out our kettle. Our system is labeled as a 3.5bbl but the kettles max volume is 6.2bbl so we boil 5 bbls and then top up to 6-6.2. We spin for 10, rest for 20 and with a CLT and a 2 stage heat exchanger we can knock out in 30 minutes. So it’s sitting at 180 for close to an hour.

Conan sucks from most vendors honestly. Bootleg strain is maybe the most reliable. I’ve found with Conan that if you dry hop warm you tend to end up with a clearer beer however if you dry hop below 60 you’ll get a pretty stable haze especially with higher polyphenol hops (Citra, Galaxy, all NZ hops). You can underpitch a bit and add more o2 and ferment it warm and you’ll get a nice apricot like ester or overpitch and ferment at 60 and it tends to be rather clean. We make great WC IPA this way. Ferment cold and dry hop warm.

I personally hate LA3. It adds a sweetness that I don’t like at all and a lot of beers with it have this cake frosting like flavor to me. I think it tends to trample hops as well. It’s better fermented cold but everyone these days is fermenting it at 72 with tons of oxygen to get these fruity esters but it just ends up masking hop character. I think the best alternative is American Ale II actually, the strain Fidens and Bissell Brothers use. Its haze positive, has some nice esters, but lets hops really come through.

I think hazy beer does provide way more hop character. We’ve made plenty of clear hoppy beer and every time I always think the non filtered/fined beer is way better. That being said we do everything we can to source the best hops we want to let them shine. I don’t want yeast to get in the way of the hops. My favorite beers have always been the ones with the best hop expression so that’s what we try to make. Drinkability is key. The biggest knock on “hazy” beer has always been the sweetness and heft on the palate. I loath those types of beer. I’ve been really impressed with the Fidens stuff lately. It’s great hop expression but never sweet or thick. They’re very bright which I think helps with drinkability.
 
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I think the best alternative is American Ale II actually, the strain Fidens and Bissell Brothers use. Its haze positive, has some nice esters, but lets hops really come through.

Now this is some fascinating info. I've brewed a few collabs with Fidens back when I worked commercially at a tiny spot. If I remember correctly at that time when we brewed at their location they pitched fresh packs of a particular and common variety (don't want to overstep) and when we brewed at our spot we pitched 1318. This is a few years ago at this point, though, so they might have shifted!
 
Now this is some fascinating info. I've brewed a few collabs with Fidens back when I worked commercially at a tiny spot. If I remember correctly at that time when we brewed at their location they pitched fresh packs of a particular and common variety (don't want to overstep) and when we brewed at our spot we pitched 1318. This is a few years ago at this point, though, so they might have shifted!

In that podcast from 2024 Steve from Fidens mentions using BSI A-72

https://beerandbrewing.com/podcast-episode-342-hazy-ipa-panel
 
Interesting. It must have changed at some point between then and now. I remember when Steve put out the homebrew scaled recipe for Jasper as well he recommended LA3 or similar strains.
I know Steve personally and he shared with me that they have switched to AAII as their dryhop rates went up as it has a bigger ph drop and puts them where they want to be ph wise after dryhoping
 
I know Steve personally and he shared with me that they have switched to AAII as their dryhop rates went up as it has a bigger ph drop and puts them where they want to be ph wise after dryhoping
Ah, makes sense! This is a pretty big shift from convention IMO. Cool to see.
 
Latest hazy double ipa at 8.4%

Grain:
70% - proximity 2row
20% - flaked oats
10% - white wheat

Yeast:
Verdant

Hops:
Citra
Simcoe
Motueka CGX

The beers not bad but it’s quite muted. I really think verdant sucks so I’ll probably never use it again. Very ester forward on the character and thinner body (still fine but I’m hyper critical about mouthfeel/body) and really competes with the hops and takes away from the brightness.
IMG_2510.jpeg
 
While I like Verdant for quite a few reasons, I do have trouble getting it to finish out high. The stuff seems too potent for its own good sometimes. Even when mashing around 158°F it often finishes around 1.011-1.012 for me.

The convenience and reliability, along with the other characteristics, are great though. It’s annoying.
 

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