New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

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Dgallo

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Has anyone added extra dry hops to the keg in a mesh bag? I just ruined a beer doing this. I dry hopped in my conical with the first charged for a few days. Then chilled and dumped the hops. I then added 10oz of hops in a mesh sack to a completely purged keg and closed transferred the beer. Kegging went perfect. The next day I took a pour to check and the beer is brown. I haven’t oxidized a beer in YEARS. I’m thinking it was the mesh bag that was sanitized with starsan. Any ideas? I was convinced this beer was going to be a banger!
won’t oxidize that bad in a day, it’s most likely pure particulate making look brown. That said 10 oz in the serving keg seems like far to much. Your going to have any extremely difficult time removing the bag when the hops break up and swell. I have a strong feeling you will have difficulties continuously pouring that keg
 

NJGeorge

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won’t oxidize that bad in a day, it’s most likely pure particulate making look brown. That said 10 oz in the serving keg seems like far to much. Your going to have any extremely difficult time removing the bag when the hops break up and swell. I have a strong feeling you will have difficulties continuously pouring that keg
So maybe I should transfer to a new keg? The beer does taste harsh lol
 

tracer bullet

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I tend to agree you have to give it a few days. Between the yeast settling out, the particulates including the hops, and so on it's probably too early to make decisions. I find it takes a week or so after kegging for flavors, and my opinions, to stop changing. After that week or so things stay fairly steady for a month perhaps and afterwards start to slowly diminish. That said I tend to ferment for about 2 weeks, chill a day or two, dry hop a few days (3-ish), then keg. Longer or shorter times prior to kegging can change things.

Either way, give yourself a few more days before you make any serious evaluations.
 

wepeeler

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So maybe I should transfer to a new keg? The beer does taste harsh lol
Might have to chalk it up to a lost batch. Like @Dgallo said, 10oz in a serving keg is way too much. Even if you're able to transfer it to a new keg, most of the oils are extracted between 24-48 hours, and the harshness will most likely not go away, even over time.
 

NJGeorge

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won’t oxidize that bad in a day, it’s most likely pure particulate making look brown. That said 10 oz in the serving keg seems like far to much. Your going to have any extremely difficult time removing the bag when the hops break up and swell. I have a strong feeling you will have difficulties continuously pouring that keg
You’re right, it was hops sitting at the bottom of the keg giving it that color. I transferred to a clean purged keg and the beer looks great again. Just have to wait and see how it develops.
 

Dgallo

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that’s good news! I think you’ll be far better off doing this. As long as the other keg was purged and it was a closed transfer, that is
 

NJGeorge

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that’s good news! I think you’ll be far better off doing this. As long as the other keg was purged and it was a closed transfer, that is
Yeah man. I’m very confident in my process so I was shocked when I saw the color. Smelled great tho. This will be a good experiment. 10oz dry hop in the conical for 3 days then dump and crash. Then transfer into purged keg with another 10oz haha. Most hops I ever used in a 7.3% beer. Hops were 8oz HBC586 and 2oz chinook for both charges. I’ll post a few pics of the brown color and then after I transferred to the keg the light color.
 

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CascadesBrewer

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Is Cryo-Pop a good option to use for dry hopping?

I brewed a 2.5 gallon batch of an NEIPA yesterday. I used 1 oz each of Cryo-Pop, BRU-1 and Sabro in the whirlpool. Based on the "survivable" research, I was not sure if Cryo-Pop is better used on the hot side. I picked up 2 oz of Cryo-Pop from Homebrew Con, so I have another 1 oz package I could use for the dry hop.

Any suggestions for a dry hop combo? I am thinking maybe
  • 1 oz each Cryo-Pop, BRU-1 and Sabro
  • 3 oz BRU-1 and 1 oz Sabro
  • 2 oz BRU-1, 1 oz Citra, and 1 oz Sabro
I ended up really maxing out my 3-gallon Fermonster (which maxes at around 3.2 gallons). I planned for 2.7 gallons into the fermenter, but ended up with a full 3 gallons! This is partially because the Cryo-Pop likely just passed through my strainer and went right into the fermenter where my water amounts assumed for more loss to hop absorption.
 

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NJGeorge

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Might have to chalk it up to a lost batch. Like @Dgallo said, 10oz in a serving keg is way too much. Even if you're able to transfer it to a new keg, most of the oils are extracted between 24-48 hours, and the harshness will most likely not go away, even over time.
I kinda now wish I left it on the keg hops longer haha. It’s still too early but the beer is drinking fine. Not harsh at all. Not too hoppy. Color is fine. Wish I shook the keg to mix in that hop bag better.
 

Dgallo

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I kinda now wish I left it on the keg hops longer haha. It’s still too early but the beer is drinking fine. Not harsh at all. Not too hoppy. Color is fine. Wish I shook the keg to mix in that hop bag better.
Your really not picking up the hops after a total of a 20 oz dryhop?!?!? That’s literally dryhoping at just under 8lbs/barrel not to mention your hotside hops.

Might be time to take a Covid test lol
 

NJGeorge

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Your really not picking up the hops after a total of a 20 oz dryhop?!?!? That’s literally dryhoping at just under 8lbs/barrel not to mention your hotside hops.

Might be time to take a Covid test lol
I’ll let you know in a few days! Haha nah no covid here. I typically dry hop in the conical after crashing and dumping all the yeast. I dry hop around 8-14oz in a 7gal conical and rouse the hops from the bottom with c02 a couple times a day for 2-3 days. This has always worked for me but I like experimenting. I’ll post final pics soon
 

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I’ll let you know in a few days! Haha nah no covid here. I typically dry hop in the conical after crashing and dumping all the yeast. I dry hop around 8-14oz in a 7gal conical and rouse the hops from the bottom with c02 a couple times a day for 2-3 days. This has always worked for me but I like experimenting. I’ll post final pics soon
14oz dry hop 👀
 

Dgallo

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I typically brew DIPAs and wouldn’t consider going less than this with 6G in the FV. That’s under 5lbs/barrel, correct? Are people still using much less in the DH than this?
For doubles I’m exactly where your at. Sometimes a few ounces less if I have some wildly potent hops.

Im just finishing up dryhoping a beer right now where I have some stupid potent nelson so it only got 13 oz lol but that ounce may make no difference anyway lol
 

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I typically brew DIPAs and wouldn’t consider going less than this with 6G in the FV. That’s under 5lbs/barrel, correct? Are people still using much less in the DH than this?
i've used the equivalent of 2 oz/gal in my most recent single IPAs. I wonder if more would be beneficial? I have been using Lupo for everything to try it out
 

wepeeler

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I typically brew DIPAs and wouldn’t consider going less than this with 6G in the FV. That’s under 5lbs/barrel, correct? Are people still using much less in the DH than this?
That just blows my mind, but more so because I'm not 100% familiar with commercial DH rates, I guess. I've never gone more than a 10oz DH, and to me, it was overkill on my system. I make my 7-7.5% hazies with 14oz total, and that's sometimes pushing it. My best one, the one currently sitting in my keg about to kick any day was 13oz total.
 

Dgallo

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do you think there's a difference between pushing it over to serving keg vs just racking it over with an open top? have you compared?
I wouldn’t even attempt to compare to be honest. I close transfer only. The only chance for any o2 to get in is when I open the lid to dryhop while co2 is running to create positive pressure

opening the lid while transferring will certainly minimize shelf life and hop intensity verses full closed transferring
 

Northern_Brewer

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That just blows my mind, but more so because I'm not 100% familiar with commercial DH rates, I guess. I've never gone more than a 10oz DH, and to me, it was overkill on my system. I make my 7-7.5% hazies with 14oz total, and that's sometimes pushing it. My best one, the one currently sitting in my keg about to kick any day was 13oz total.
Translating into sensible units, 10oz in 5 US gal is 15g/l which seems to be a pretty typical homebrew amount, say 12-15g/l seems to be normal. Some of the commercial NEIPAs here aimed at supermarket price points seem to go down to 10-12g/l, maybe even a bit less. But for an example of what top breweries are doing, Cloudwater used 9g/l (6oz in 5 US gal) dry hop in their classic (Untappd 4.41) DIPA v3 in 2016, their standard for DIPAs these days is 24g/l (ie about 16oz in 5 US gal). But they have all the professional toys like centrifuges to manage the resulting hop soup.

Less isn't always more, as per the famous Lafontaine & Shellhammer paper which found in their particular system (Cascade in a 80litre/21USgal kit) that 8g/l worked better than 3.86g/l or 16 g/l - in particular they found that the citrus flavours maxed out at an estimated 6-7g/l, whereas the herbal/tea flavours maxed out at maybe 12-13g/l, so the higher hopping rates were dominated by the herbal/tea flavours. Whilst some compounds increased with more hops, they found a lot more myrcene and eg methyl geranate in the 8g/l beer than the 16g/l beer.

That's just one hop in one particular hardware setup, so I wouldn't take the exact numbers as gospel, but it just suggests that there's not just diminishing returns but differences in solubility and other interactions can mean high hopping rates can really shift the balance of your beer - and not in a good way. One can imagine that if instead of Cascade you used one of the "tropical" hops that rely on tiny amounts of thiols then the peaks for thiols might come at higher hop rates, but even so, more is not always more.

1670298661666.png
 

wepeeler

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Translating into sensible units, 10oz in 5 US gal is 15g/l which seems to be a pretty typical homebrew amount, say 12-15g/l seems to be normal. Some of the commercial NEIPAs here aimed at supermarket price points seem to go down to 10-12g/l, maybe even a bit less. But for an example of what top breweries are doing, Cloudwater used 9g/l (6oz in 5 US gal) dry hop in their classic (Untappd 4.41) DIPA v3 in 2016, their standard for DIPAs these days is 24g/l (ie about 16oz in 5 US gal). But they have all the professional toys like centrifuges to manage the resulting hop soup.

Less isn't always more, as per the famous Lafontaine & Shellhammer paper which found in their particular system (Cascade in a 80litre/21USgal kit) that 8g/l worked better than 3.86g/l or 16 g/l - in particular they found that the citrus flavours maxed out at an estimated 6-7g/l, whereas the herbal/tea flavours maxed out at maybe 12-13g/l, so the higher hopping rates were dominated by the herbal/tea flavours. Whilst some compounds increased with more hops, they found a lot more myrcene and eg methyl geranate in the 8g/l beer than the 16g/l beer.

That's just one hop in one particular hardware setup, so I wouldn't take the exact numbers as gospel, but it just suggests that there's not just diminishing returns but differences in solubility and other interactions can mean high hopping rates can really shift the balance of your beer - and not in a good way. One can imagine that if instead of Cascade you used one of the "tropical" hops that rely on tiny amounts of thiols then the peaks for thiols might come at higher hop rates, but even so, more is not always more.

View attachment 807248
Seems to me that everyone's process/system is unique and everyone's taste buds are different. There is evidence, albeit anecdotal, that less is more AND more is more, as you stated above.
 

aaronm13

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I'm pretty much at 14-16oz dry hop for my DIPAs. Think this is my sweet spot. I did try the 8g/L from the Shellhammer paper but just didn't make any impact whatsoever. Will be dry hopping a TIPA this weekend and wondering should how far I should push the dry hop rate. It's sitting at 10.3% at the moment.

One think I'm still not sure about is a double dose of dry hops. I close transfer to a keg to dry hop which I have to open with co2 running while dropping the hops in. I prefer to do this only once to avoid oxygen pick up. I rouse the hops with co2 through the liquid post so not sure if two separate doses are necessary as the hops get good contact with the beer. What are other peoples thought's on this?
 
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I have done it both ways, but in my conical. I haven't had an issue with oxidation doing 2 dry hops.. did I get better extraction? I'd like to think so, I also push co2 into the bottom of my conical to rouse the dry hops. I'd say you're probably fine doing just one, you can push co2 and shake the keg, or whatever to help.
 

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Anyone know what the blend consists of for Coastal Haze from white labs? Wasn't sure if its equivalent to Imperials Dry Hop. Have seen several posts promoting Coastal Haze so I decided to order a pack. I think @wepeeler stated its a krausen beast so blow-off required, but any other input on experience with this blend is appreciated ie. best mash schedule with atteneuation characteristics.
 

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Anyone know what the blend consists of for Coastal Haze from white labs? Wasn't sure if its equivalent to Imperials Dry Hop. Have seen several posts promoting Coastal Haze so I decided to order a pack. I think @wepeeler stated its a krausen beast so blow-off required, but any other input on experience with this blend is appreciated ie. best mash schedule with atteneuation characteristics.
i can confirm it is a massive foamer. i just tried it. Attenuation was pretty run of the mill, similar to other englishy strains for me. i thought it would be higher. i kept it pretty low temp to start though. it makes for a hazy nice ipa. I wouldln't write home to mom about it, but it's good. I don't know if you could tell the difference between it and dryhop, probably not.
 

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Thanks. Dry Hop is still my favorite for the style as you get great esters but can still taste/smell the individual hops you use. But not over the top with esters that you can't figure out what hops you put in it in the first place. So if Coastal Haze is similar, I'm sure i will enjoy it.
 

wepeeler

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Anyone know what the blend consists of for Coastal Haze from white labs? Wasn't sure if its equivalent to Imperials Dry Hop. Have seen several posts promoting Coastal Haze so I decided to order a pack. I think @wepeeler stated its a krausen beast so blow-off required, but any other input on experience with this blend is appreciated ie. best mash schedule with atteneuation characteristics.
Not sure the blend, but it's the best neipa yeast I've used so far. I've used Dry Hop, and it's definitely not the same yeast. 100% use a blow off tube. I do, and I still get 3 to 4 blow offs per fermentation, but I try for 6.5 gal in a 7 gallon fermenter, so that's my fault! I shoot to mash 152 for 60min. OG 1.068-1.070 FG 1.014-1.018ish. Seems to depend on the mood of the yeast. Ferment at 68, ramp to 70-72 to finish. I overbuild my starter to harvest 100 bil cells to build my next starter.
 
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I first tried coastal haze at the beginning of this year and haven't used anything else since for my neipas. 2 reasons, one it let's the hops shine, 2 the haze is great, and 3 my lhbs carries it and I like supporting them rather then ordering from morebeer or wherever. I mash at 150 to 152 and get 75%-80% attenuation. I'm certain you will like it.
 

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Having not used it, my best guess based on being STA1+, temp, attenuation, and vigorous blowoff, is it's London Fog and Sacch Trois (WLP066 + WLP644).
 

wepeeler

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Having not used it, my best guess based on being STA1+, temp, attenuation, and vigorous blowoff, is it's London Fog and Sacch Trois (WLP066 + WLP644).
Quite possible. I've used London Fog quite extensively as well, and it produces a different beer to 1318 and Coastal Haze. My first time doing a split batch of neipa was with CH and LF. Loved them both.
 

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Man I just got some of the worst nelson I've ever received from Yakima too. Hard as a gd rock no aroma and the alpha is way below what they posted, and it was the 2022 batch. Ymmv obviously just a heads up.

Edit: just checked with a buddy and he got a few lbs at 12 alpha compared to my 9.x and his is great like last years. Guess I'm ordering again and crossing my fingies
 
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Not sure the blend, but it's the best neipa yeast I've used so far. I've used Dry Hop, and it's definitely not the same yeast. 100% use a blow off tube. I do, and I still get 3 to 4 blow offs per fermentation, but I try for 6.5 gal in a 7 gallon fermenter, so that's my fault! I shoot to mash 152 for 60min. OG 1.068-1.070 FG 1.014-1.018ish. Seems to depend on the mood of the yeast. Ferment at 68, ramp to 70-72 to finish. I overbuild my starter to harvest 100 bil cells to build my next starter.

first tried coastal haze at the beginning of this year and haven't used anything else since for my neipas. 2 reasons, one it let's the hops shine, 2 the haze is great, and 3 my lhbs carries it and I like supporting them rather then ordering from morebeer or wherever. I mash at 150 to 152 and get 75%-80% attenuation. I'm certain you will like it.
These are both good data points and helpful. Thanks! Seems both your attenuation is in the 75-80% range which is fine with me. Other than your mash schedules you already mentioned, are these attenuation without dextrose? I'd prefer not using it tbh but just want to know what to expect as much as possible and thanks again. @wepeeler I've overbuilt starters for Dry Hop to three generations with zero issues (that I can detect) considering its a blend. Your experience similar with Coastal Haze?
 

ihavenonickname

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I dry hopped with my 2022 Galaxy from YVH and they were pretty disappointing. Mild aroma peaches and earthy. Both the mosaic and strata I got from them recently were much better. So bummed to hear the 2022 Nelson isnt great either, I was thinking I could jump on that deal to replace the deal I got on galaxy. I guess there’s gotta be a reason for these incredible prices, the crop can’t be incredible every year!
 

wepeeler

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These are both good data points and helpful. Thanks! Seems both your attenuation is in the 75-80% range which is fine with me. Other than your mash schedules you already mentioned, are these attenuation without dextrose? I'd prefer not using it tbh but just want to know what to expect as much as possible and thanks again. @wepeeler I've overbuilt starters for Dry Hop to three generations with zero issues (that I can detect) considering its a blend. Your experience similar with Coastal Haze?
I only use 2 Row, White Wheat and Carafoam in my neipas. Carafoam isn't dextrose, but I guess it acts like it?

I've gone out to at least 5 or 7 generations with CH. I usually buy new packs when I place a big grain order.
 

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I dry hopped with my 2022 Galaxy from YVH and they were pretty disappointing. Mild aroma peaches and earthy. Both the mosaic and strata I got from them recently were much better. So bummed to hear the 2022 Nelson isnt great either, I was thinking I could jump on that deal to replace the deal I got on galaxy. I guess there’s gotta be a reason for these incredible prices, the crop can’t be incredible every year!
I still ended up ordering 2 lbs in hope I get the good stuff this time. It's weird how different the alpha ranges from bag to bag
 

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I dry hopped with my 2022 Galaxy from YVH and they were pretty disappointing. Mild aroma peaches and earthy. Both the mosaic and strata I got from them recently were much better. So bummed to hear the 2022 Nelson isnt great either, I was thinking I could jump on that deal to replace the deal I got on galaxy. I guess there’s gotta be a reason for these incredible prices, the crop can’t be incredible every year!
Galaxy hasn't been incredible since 2016.
 
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These are both good data points and helpful. Thanks! Seems both your attenuation is in the 75-80% range which is fine with me. Other than your mash schedules you already mentioned, are these attenuation without dextrose? I'd prefer not using it tbh but just want to know what to expect as much as possible and thanks again. @wepeeler I've overbuilt starters for Dry Hop to three generations with zero issues (that I can detect) considering its a blend. Your experience similar with Coastal Haze?
2row, white wheat, malted oats, a touch of carapils and a touch of honey malt. I want to try a step mash but could be complicated on my system, I have coastal haze on my stir plate now for a batch this weekend. Hoping to see what coastal haze does with a higher gravity beer, looking into double neipa range for this one.
 
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