New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

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Northern_Brewer

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Anyone used S-33 for this style yet? I was talking to a reputable brewer near me, and he mentioned knowing some people who used S-33 for their hazys. I researched a bit online, and I do see that people have made, in their opinions, great neipas with it. It's technically a Belgian yeast, but I may have to give it a whirl.
No it's not, S-33 is another derivative of the old EDME homebrew yeast, which makes it a close cousin of Windsor and Munton ordinary. It's weird how this idea it's Belgian has taken root but it's nonsense - other than a Belgian brewery may have been using it, but it's not a "Belgian" yeast in the sense that most people would use the term - it's non-phenolic and low attenuation.

A few people have used Windsor in NEIPAs and you'd expect similar results - you'll get a higher FG and so some impression of mouthfeel from that, and I suspect it may be like its close relative T-58 in being quite biotransformy, but I've not tested it.
 

eugles

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Use the date on the package to determine an approximate starting cell count.
Use that calculator to see how much dme to use to overbuild and harvest.
Sure, that's the calculator I use as well, but is this starting amount 150 or 500? :)
 

CascadesBrewer

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For the folks overbuilding starters, what starting cell count do you use for Omega yeasts / Cosmic as a starting point? On their site they say 150m - 500m range depending on strain. Getting first brew day in like 8 months next week and I am giddy.

150 to 500 Billion per pack? Where on their site did you find that info?

I have been a little confused about the cell counts in Omega. I thought they used to advertise 150B cells per pack. Then they started adding "50% More Yeast" to their packs. Does that mean they contain 225B cells? Do they vary the amount by strain?
 

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No it's not, S-33 is another derivative of the old EDME homebrew yeast, which makes it a close cousin of Windsor and Munton ordinary. It's weird how this idea it's Belgian has taken root but it's nonsense - other than a Belgian brewery may have been using it, but it's not a "Belgian" yeast in the sense that most people would use the term - it's non-phenolic and low attenuation.

A few people have used Windsor in NEIPAs and you'd expect similar results - you'll get a higher FG and so some impression of mouthfeel from that, and I suspect it may be like its close relative T-58 in being quite biotransformy, but I've not tested it.
I was just going off what their website says. Ideal for Belgians and English ales, but also ideal for neipas. I'm very interested in trying it. Split batch coming soon!

 

eugles

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150 to 500 Billion per pack? Where on their site did you find that info?

I have been a little confused about the cell counts in Omega. I thought they used to advertise 150B cells per pack. Then they started adding "50% More Yeast" to their packs. Does that mean they contain 225B cells? Do they vary the amount by strain?
I found it here HomebrewingResources

And looks like i read it wrong, it's actually:
As a result of genetic differences, we have observed strain to strain variation in cell counts even under identical growth conditions. Certain strains may contain up to 500 billion cells per pack while most strains will contain at least 225 billion cells per pack.
 

wepeeler

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I found it here HomebrewingResources

And looks like i read it wrong, it's actually:
They claim, as do other yeast manufacturers that you can direct pitch for 5 gallons under 1.060, but I make starters for all my liquid yeast. Not only can you harvest directly from the starter, as I do, but you'll give the yeast a head's start to chew up your wort. Healthy yeast means better fermentation = better beer!
 

eugles

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They claim, as do other yeast manufacturers that you can direct pitch for 5 gallons under 1.060, but I make starters for all my liquid yeast. Not only can you harvest directly from the starter, as I do, but you'll give the yeast a head's start to chew up your wort. Healthy yeast means better fermentation = better beer!
Totally! - I always make a starter and overbuild to get yeast for next batch or two. I just had no idea what the starting point is for Omega unlike Imperial which states how many cells are in package (approximately). I know I won't be underpitching, but I've always wondered about overpitching. There's been a ton of stuff I've read and listened to on podcasts about pro brewers making sure to use the smallest amount of yeast possible for a good fermentation. Maybe I'm just overthinking it.
 

wepeeler

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Totally! - I always make a starter and overbuild to get yeast for next batch or two. I just had no idea what the starting point is for Omega unlike Imperial which states how many cells are in package (approximately). I know I won't be underpitching, but I've always wondered about overpitching. There's been a ton of stuff I've read and listened to on podcasts about pro brewers making sure to use the smallest amount of yeast possible for a good fermentation. Maybe I'm just overthinking it.
I think it's less critical on the homebrew level. Obviously we'd like to pitch the perfect amount every time, but without a microscope and actually counting cells, we really don't know. Underpitching stresses yeast, which can lead to off flavors (some of which are ok depending on style), and overpitching can lead to yeast dropping out early and not finishing fermentation. Personally, I always overbuild, with the thought that I don't count cells, and I'd rather err on the side of more, not less. The more I've read about yeast, the common theme is always take less healthy (viable) yeast vs more unhealthy yeast.

Back to NEIPA talk and I'll be kegging a split batch Simcoe/Strata 50/50 on Thursday. Big WP addition and even larger dry hop. Coastal Haze and 1318. Can't friggin wait.
 

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Anyone used S-33 for this style yet? I was talking to a reputable brewer near me, and he mentioned knowing some people who used S-33 for their hazys. I researched a bit online, and I do see that people have made, in their opinions, great neipas with it. It's technically a Belgian yeast, but I may have to give it a whirl.
I used it once. Since I knew there was some attenuation issues with it IIRC I used it in combination with S04. It was 75% S-33, 25% S04. Still finished at 1.023. Wasn't a huge fan. From memory though I distinctly remember a thick mouthfeel but I also remember it kinda not letting the hops shine through.

I used US05 with it, not S04
 

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I think it's less critical on the homebrew level. Obviously we'd like to pitch the perfect amount every time, but without a microscope and actually counting cells, we really don't know. Underpitching stresses yeast, which can lead to off flavors (some of which are ok depending on style), and overpitching can lead to yeast dropping out early and not finishing fermentation. Personally, I always overbuild, with the thought that I don't count cells, and I'd rather err on the side of more, not less. The more I've read about yeast, the common theme is always take less healthy (viable) yeast vs more unhealthy yeast.

Back to NEIPA talk and I'll be kegging a split batch Simcoe/Strata 50/50 on Thursday. Big WP addition and even larger dry hop. Coastal Haze and 1318. Can't friggin wait.
Will be very curious to see the comparison of yeasts!
 
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I started using coastal haze a couple batches ago and have stuck with it since. Have one on the stir plate now for a brew day this weekend that I'm entertaining into the pa state final competition. I have used imperial a24 and a38, and a few other yeast strains, nothing against the other yeasts I just prefer the coastal haze. I have had repeatable results and really happy with it overall. This was my last batch with it, brewed in may, keg just kicked this past weekend.
20220710_160250.jpg
 
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I started using coastal haze a couple batches ago and have stuck with it since. Have one on the stir plate now for a brew day this weekend that I'm entertaining into the pa state final competition. I have used imperial a24 and a38, and a few other yeast strains, nothing against the other yeasts I just prefer the coastal haze. I have had repeatable results and really happy with it overall. This was my last batch with it, brewed in may, keg just kicked this past weekend.
View attachment 778060
+1 for the Coastal Haze! It's been my go-to for my last several batches. Here's my last batch. Same glass as yours!
 

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Dgallo

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I'm not sure how those blends compare. I've only used A24 dryhop once before but had some issues with that batch not related to the yeast. I'll have to try it again.
Everyone has their preference but I’m just interested to know the linage. I’m assuming it has that sac trios or cerv being that it’s STA1 positive
 
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It may very well be, I prefer white labs though, again nothing against a24 or imperial in general. But my lhbs carries white labs and I've preferred this yeast to what I've used in the past. I've changed other minor things as well but I really like what I get from coastal haze.
 

ihavenonickname

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So, If Im not mistaken, starting gravity (OG) really depends on the full potential of the grains used and assumes that you achieve 100% conversion in the mash. I never thought that mash temp times could affect starting gravity (again assuming that you get 100% conversion in any given recipe). So I think the trick is to get your mash temp up to the Alpha - Amylase optimal range BEFORE 100% conversion is complete. Obviously if you did a single infusion at 148 for the duration (where alpha activity and remaining dextrin are low) you would end up with a highly fermentable and drier beer with a lower FG. So in my own anecdotal experience by the time I hit the 160F step, the mash is already 70-80% converted which I think is OK. The 160F step then helps with body by leaving more unfermentable sugars for the remaining part of the conversion.
EDIT: I'll also add that I do think the 160F step is critical to helping with Foam retention which also helps with the perception of body/mouthfeel as well.

I did a few with the mid 150 step but have ditched it. I am pretty much going with 148-150 for 30minutes and then 160 for 30minutes and then 168-170 for mashout
Thanks this is helpful... One point to clarify, I think many people will say that OG is effected by the steps because you get full conversion (whereas single steps can have partial like 90%) Evidence for this is many will claim much higher mash effeciencies with stingle steps at 148 than they will with single steps at 154.

But regarding your schedule and building body, here is my practical follow up question:
If I start with a a schedule of 146F for 30, 158 for 30, 168 for 10 after then decide to adjust it for MORE body (less attenuation) How should I adjust the schedule? Shorten the Beta rest? Increase the Beta temperature? Lengthen the alpha rest?

@couchsending if you are still out there!
 

HopsAreGood

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3D1EBE9E-6FC8-4BB4-B288-2F3DAA5D4B46.jpeg

Haven’t posted much lately. Sipping on my latest and really digging it.

8%abv

70% 2-row
15% white wheat
10% malted oats
5% carafoam

4 oz citra lupomax 170 WP

Verdant at 68 for 3 days, then 72 for 7 more.

Soft crash to 58 for 2 days before transferring to dry hop keg.

Dry hop for 3 days at 58 rolling keg a few times daily:

2 oz citra cryo
2 oz mosaic cryo
4 oz Nectaron.

Crash to 34 for 2 days.

Jump to serving keg and carb to 2.2 volumes. Loving this one so far!
 

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I have yet to use cryo or lupomax, I'm curious to do so once I run out of the hops I currently have on hand.
"once I run out of the hops I have on hand" - you sir are much more disciplined than I when I comes to buying hops. My hop habit is like my wife (and three kids) shopping habits. I'm always telling her what she tells me all the time: do you know how much I saved by purchasing $$$XYZ amount of money? :p Anyhow, I like lupomax a lot. Haven't used cryo
 

Dgallo

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I have yet to use cryo or lupomax, I'm curious to do so once I run out of the hops I currently have on hand.
Both are excellent for bright pops to elevate varietal characteristics. I use it religiously. I’ve come to enjoy it more when I have some amount of the same hop in the dryhop as t90. That’s where I think it really does it’s best work but it’s great regardless
 

HopsAreGood

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@HopsAreGood Man I am always so inspired by your posts! The color is just outrageous, looks so delicious.

How important do you think cryo and lupomax are to the quality of your final product? Or is the primary benefit of cryo/lupo just better yield? (less wort and beer absorption?
I’ve made some beers I really liked with all T-90s and some that I didn’t because the hops sucked. I’d say 99% of the time using cryo/lupomax etc…the quality of the hops is always good. In a way it’s assurance that your beer won’t suck because your hops sucked. Less beer loss is also a very nice benefit.

I’ll say that blending in some T-90s does seem to add something that goes missing if using all cryo/lupomax.
 
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I have yet to use cryo or lupomax, I'm curious to do so once I run out of the hops I currently have on hand. Which is a lot,
"once I run out of the hops I have on hand" - you sir are much more disciplined than I when I comes to buying hops. My hop habit is like my wife (and three kids) shopping habits. I'm always telling her what she tells me all the time: do you know how much I saved by purchasing $$$XYZ amount of money? :p Anyhow, I like lupomax a lot. Haven't used cryo
Dude I get that, but honestly I brew 15 gallon batches and a neipa will burn through lbs of hops at a time as opposed to ounces so to save some dough I bought some citra and mosaic and a couple others in bulk. Like this size
Hops1.jpg

So that being said I'm probably down to maybe 2 more batches of neipa before I invest in some lupomax or cryo, and yes I have done some impulse buys on Yakima for galaxy and whatnot so yeah, when my wife buys yet another pair of shoes or earrings or whatever I just say, those look great.. her closet has shoes and tons of clothes, my freezer has hops. So I'm probably actually less disciplined then you are, or maybe the same but in a different manner. Either way I'll be trying out these higher concentration hops soon as I can.
 

Dgallo

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I have yet to use cryo or lupomax, I'm curious to do so once I run out of the hops I currently have on hand. Which is a lot,

Dude I get that, but honestly I brew 15 gallon batches and a neipa will burn through lbs of hops at a time as opposed to ounces so to save some dough I bought some citra and mosaic and a couple others in bulk. Like this size View attachment 778472
So that being said I'm probably down to maybe 2 more batches of neipa before I invest in some lupomax or cryo, and yes I have done some impulse buys on Yakima for galaxy and whatnot so yeah, when my wife buys yet another pair of shoes or earrings or whatever I just say, those look great.. her closet has shoes and tons of clothes, my freezer has hops. So I'm probably actually less disciplined then you are, or maybe the same but in a different manner. Either way I'll be trying out these higher concentration hops soon as I can.
I hope you have a vacuum sealer buying 11lb bags at a time lol
 
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I hope you have a vacuum sealer buying 11lb bags at a time lol
Yessir, vacuum seal and deep freeze in 1lb packs. I got a good vacuum sealer a few years ago when I started butchering my own deer, but that's a whole different hobby. Haha. Brewed a batch today, excited for this one, simcoe, citra, mosaic hot side. Planning for citra, mosaic and nectaron in the dry hop. Had a local brew after mashing in.
20220821_130151.jpg
 

Benson Brewhouse

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It is always good to learn from others successes and failures.

BTW, I am not sure where you are in relationship to Falls Church VA. Dominion Wine & Beer has been rotating in some kegs of Monkish this week. I was at Monkish in 2019, and I was more excited to try out some of their Belgian offerings. The Monkish "Realer That Real" I had yesterday was not too impressive (at 10% it had a noticeable alcohol hotness). I thought the Equilibrium MC2 was quite nice. Looks like they have 3 Monkish beers on tap right now. Though personally, I am pretty happy with many of the area brewed NEIPA beers.
This is good to know - I'm in Falls Church (between 29 and 50, off Fairview Park) - I haven't hit Dominion in a while but they always seem to have an excellent rotation. I'll have to check if they still have any Monkish on tap.
 

elproducto

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On the Cryo/Lupomax topic... is there one that people prefer over the other?
I haven't used them, but would be interested in incorporating them into my recipes.
 

Benson Brewhouse

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On the Cryo/Lupomax topic... is there one that people prefer over the other?
I haven't used them, but would be interested in incorporating them into my recipes.
They're effectively the same thing - both are concentrated lupulin pellets. Cryo is made by Yakima Chief and Lupomax is made by Haas.
 

HopsAreGood

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They're effectively the same thing - both are concentrated lupulin pellets. Cryo is made by Yakima Chief and Lupomax is made by Haas.
More or less. Cryo is actually slightly more concentrated than lupomax. Suggested use for cryo is about 50%, meaning if you were going to use 2 oz of regular t-90s you’d just use 1 oz of cryo. Lupomax is about 70% give or take. When I calculate lupomax I generally go anywhere from 65-75% meaning 1 oz lupomax is about 1.5 oz t90s (66%) or 1.5 oz lupomax is about 2 oz t90s (75%)

You can obviously calculate your recipes anyway you like. The AA percentages on cryo and lupomax also back up the 50 and 70% accuracy versus t90s. A 12% citra is likely around 24 in cryo and 17-18 in lupomax.
 

Dgallo

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More or less. Cryo is actually slightly more concentrated than lupomax. Suggested use for cryo is about 50%, meaning if you were going to use 2 oz of regular t-90s you’d just use 1 oz of cryo. Lupomax is about 70% give or take. When I calculate lupomax I generally go anywhere from 65-75% meaning 1 oz lupomax is about 1.5 oz t90s (66%) or 1.5 oz lupomax is about 2 oz t90s (75%)

You can obviously calculate your recipes anyway you like. The AA percentages on cryo and lupomax also back up the 50 and 70% accuracy versus t90s. A 12% citra is likely around 24 in cryo and 17-18 in lupomax.
I also believe the process of extraction is different as well and that LUPOMAX supposedly has less degrade of compounds than cryogenics. I’ll see if I can find where I thought I read thaat
 

Frieds

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In my anecdotal experience, I prefer lupomax over Cryo but I’ve only really used a decent amount of Citra in both forms. I found my Citra Lupomax beers to have more overall consistent true Citra hop flavour.
 

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I've got an exciting weekend for haze! I followed the soft crash + dry hop instructions for my last beer (first brew in a long time) and it came out decent. There was an issue with the water calculator I was using (or perhaps misusing) and had a pretty substantial overdosage of 10% phosphoric acid that gave it a slight tartness. Overall though, it's got drinkability for this Florida heat/humidity. I didn't get great extraction on the dry hops since I'm fermenting/dry hopping in the same vessel and don't want to disturb the settled yeast, but I'm going to track down another keg to dry hop in for my next brew.


beer.jpg




Next recipe:

Targeting 5 gallons in the keg and 70-75%ish efficiency from being a little better with my Foundry
80% 2-row,
10% malted oats,
10% red wheat

.5 oz CTZ 60 min

Ca/Mg/Na/SO4/Cl/Ph
90/10/70/100/200/5.3

whirlpool:
.5 oz CTZ
3 oz citra t-90
2 oz el dorado
1 oz amarillo

dry hop:
1 oz amarillo cryo
4 oz el dorado t-90
1 oz citra cryo



Also exciting, Woven Water in Tampa is dropping a Nectaron beer (also hopped with Citra and Lotus) tomorrow. I have to check it out given the raving reviews for Nectaron earlier in this thread!
 

Dgallo

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I've got an exciting weekend for haze! I followed the soft crash + dry hop instructions for my last beer (first brew in a long time) and it came out decent. There was an issue with the water calculator I was using (or perhaps misusing) and had a pretty substantial overdosage of 10% phosphoric acid that gave it a slight tartness. Overall though, it's got drinkability for this Florida heat/humidity. I didn't get great extraction on the dry hops since I'm fermenting/dry hopping in the same vessel and don't want to disturb the settled yeast, but I'm going to track down another keg to dry hop in for my next brew.


View attachment 778780



Next recipe:

Targeting 5 gallons in the keg and 70-75%ish efficiency from being a little better with my Foundry
80% 2-row,
10% malted oats,
10% red wheat

.5 oz CTZ 60 min

Ca/Mg/Na/SO4/Cl/Ph
90/10/70/100/200/5.3

whirlpool:
.5 oz CTZ
3 oz citra t-90
2 oz el dorado
1 oz amarillo

dry hop:
1 oz amarillo cryo
4 oz el dorado t-90
1 oz citra cryo



Also exciting, Woven Water in Tampa is dropping a Nectaron beer (also hopped with Citra and Lotus) tomorrow. I have to check it out given the raving reviews for Nectaron earlier in this thread!
Did you ever find out exactly what your issue with your acid was? I highly suggest using Bru’n water for water calculations. It’s free and pretty much exact for me. If you go this route, just make sure you select the correct drop down for the acid type and strength
 

rnewt

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Did you ever find out exactly what your issue with your acid was? I highly suggest using Bru’n water for water calculations. It’s free and pretty much exact for me. If you go this route, just make sure you select the correct drop down for the acid type and strength

I used the brewersfriend calculator for advanced water chemistry and mash. I'm going to assume I just didn't use it correctly given how significant the error was. ~70 ml for a 10lb grain bill that was mostly 2 row with 10 oz of crystal! Tasting it along the way I kept thinking, "hmm, it's never been this tart before."

I did exactly that this time, as per Bru'n, and have an amount of acid that seems much more reasonable: 1 tbsp of 10% phosphoric to bring 5 gallons down to ~5.3.
 
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