New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

Noob_Brewer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Messages
1,150
Reaction score
2,236
Location
Eastern, NC
Wasn't quite sure where to put this but since lots here use 1318/Juice, I thought it would get best responses here. Decided to try Juice for the first time (never tried 1318 either), ordered from morebeer - shipped Tuesday, arrived this morning. Each packaged in their own insulated shipper with cold packs. The Juice one is inflated and "tight" while the A24 arrived as it normally does. They aren't even warm, but not cold either. Pretty much room temp and the cold packs are barely cool. Is the Juice ok to use? 29th April is the manufacture date. Weather has been in the 80s this week but VERY humid.

IMG_0066.jpg
IMG_0066.jpg
IMG_0067.jpg
 

DrGMG

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2016
Messages
365
Reaction score
508
Location
Orlando
Wasn't quite sure where to put this but since lots here use 1318/Juice, I thought it would get best responses here. Decided to try Juice for the first time (never tried 1318 either), ordered from morebeer - shipped Tuesday, arrived this morning. Each packaged in their own insulated shipper with cold packs. The Juice one is inflated and "tight" while the A24 arrived as it normally does. They aren't even warm, but not cold either. Pretty much room temp and the cold packs are barely cool. Is the Juice ok to use? 29th April is the manufacture date. Weather has been in the 80s this week but VERY humid.

View attachment 731873View attachment 731873View attachment 731874

Do a starter ASAP, they should be good.
 

geebarr

New Member
Joined
May 31, 2020
Messages
4
Reaction score
6
Wanted to loop you all in on my current experiment. I ferment in spike conicals and have been struggling to get the same hop saturation/flavor as some of my favorite commercial examples. Haze has also been somewhat lacking. I know many of you dry hop in corny kegs and are able to agitate numerous times during the process to keep the hops in suspension - this isn't really an option in conicals. I've been intrigued by Janish's article re: burping on the commercial scale to rouse the hops a few times during the DH stage. My issue on the homebrew scale is that it's extremely hard to drop/dump all of the yeast before the dry hop without losing a third of my batch down the drain (I really think a 2" dump port on a fermenter of this size is overkill). My fear is that if I were to "burp" my tank with a bunch of yeast still in the cone, I'd be stirring up some undesirable things back into suspension. Especially since my goal as been to soft crash most of the yeast out of suspension prior to dry hop.

So...I over-compensated on volume of this batch to yield 9 gallons pre-boil and finished with just over 7 gallons into my larger conical. Once fermentation is complete I plan to soft crash to 50F for 24 hours, then transfer to a purged smaller conical and proceed with dry hopping at 50F. This should allow me to bubble CO2 through the bottom port a few times without fear of re-suspending yeast in the process. Hopefully when all is said and done after volume loss from the hops I'll still end up with about 5 gallons in the keg.

I'd love to hear y'alls opinions or other best practices for those of you with conicals. My recipe is below so I can post updates on the outcome

OG: 1.066
Yeast: 50/50 split S-04 & S-05

13# 2-row
2# malted oats
2# white wheat
1# carafoam

1 oz citra @ 20 min
1 oz cashmere @ 15 min
1 oz cashmere @ 10 min
3 oz citra @170F WP for 15 min
3 oz cashmere @ 170F WP for 15 min
4 oz citra DH after ferm complete @ 50F
4 oz cashmere DH after ferm complete @ 50F
 

ChiknNutz

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
May 3, 2020
Messages
389
Reaction score
210
Location
Advance, NC
I have nothing particular to offer aside from my genuine interest after reading the article a while back. I am also very intrigued by this approach at the home brew scale to see if it does in fact help produce better beers of this style. So far, I am a bit underwhelmed by my own attempts as compared to what I consider a bright hop flavor and aroma that I've found in the better commercial offerings. I had posted a similar question, though more in a general sense as I do not yet have a conical. If this approach does in fact help, I'd be a lot more inclined to get a conical.
 

thedon986

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 14, 2010
Messages
123
Reaction score
33
Wanted to loop you all in on my current experiment. I ferment in spike conicals and have been struggling to get the same hop saturation/flavor as some of my favorite commercial examples. Haze has also been somewhat lacking. I know many of you dry hop in corny kegs and are able to agitate numerous times during the process to keep the hops in suspension - this isn't really an option in conicals. I've been intrigued by Janish's article re: burping on the commercial scale to rouse the hops a few times during the DH stage. My issue on the homebrew scale is that it's extremely hard to drop/dump all of the yeast before the dry hop without losing a third of my batch down the drain (I really think a 2" dump port on a fermenter of this size is overkill). My fear is that if I were to "burp" my tank with a bunch of yeast still in the cone, I'd be stirring up some undesirable things back into suspension. Especially since my goal as been to soft crash most of the yeast out of suspension prior to dry hop.

So...I over-compensated on volume of this batch to yield 9 gallons pre-boil and finished with just over 7 gallons into my larger conical. Once fermentation is complete I plan to soft crash to 50F for 24 hours, then transfer to a purged smaller conical and proceed with dry hopping at 50F. This should allow me to bubble CO2 through the bottom port a few times without fear of re-suspending yeast in the process. Hopefully when all is said and done after volume loss from the hops I'll still end up with about 5 gallons in the keg.

I'd love to hear y'alls opinions or other best practices for those of you with conicals. My recipe is below so I can post updates on the outcome

OG: 1.066
Yeast: 50/50 split S-04 & S-05

13# 2-row
2# malted oats
2# white wheat
1# carafoam

1 oz citra @ 20 min
1 oz cashmere @ 15 min
1 oz cashmere @ 10 min
3 oz citra @170F WP for 15 min
3 oz cashmere @ 170F WP for 15 min
4 oz citra DH after ferm complete @ 50F
4 oz cashmere DH after ferm complete @ 50F
Have you tried dry hopping before end of fermentation? I think doing that would help with both hop saturation/flavor as well as haze. I think the standard practice is high krausen. I use pretty much the original recipe in this thread and get great haze and flavor.
 

Dgallo

If you ain’t first, you’re last Ricky Bobby
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 15, 2017
Messages
5,228
Reaction score
10,238
Location
Albany
Have you tried dry hopping before end of fermentation? I think doing that would help with both hop saturation/flavor as well as haze. I think the standard practice is high krausen. I use pretty much the original recipe in this thread and get great haze and flavor.
That practice is already old. New best practice is all dryhoping post fermentation after dropping yeast out of suspension and at cooler temps (low mid 50s)
 
Last edited:

HopsAreGood

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2019
Messages
681
Reaction score
938
Location
New Jersey
Wanted to loop you all in on my current experiment. I ferment in spike conicals and have been struggling to get the same hop saturation/flavor as some of my favorite commercial examples. Haze has also been somewhat lacking. I know many of you dry hop in corny kegs and are able to agitate numerous times during the process to keep the hops in suspension - this isn't really an option in conicals. I've been intrigued by Janish's article re: burping on the commercial scale to rouse the hops a few times during the DH stage. My issue on the homebrew scale is that it's extremely hard to drop/dump all of the yeast before the dry hop without losing a third of my batch down the drain (I really think a 2" dump port on a fermenter of this size is overkill). My fear is that if I were to "burp" my tank with a bunch of yeast still in the cone, I'd be stirring up some undesirable things back into suspension. Especially since my goal as been to soft crash most of the yeast out of suspension prior to dry hop.

So...I over-compensated on volume of this batch to yield 9 gallons pre-boil and finished with just over 7 gallons into my larger conical. Once fermentation is complete I plan to soft crash to 50F for 24 hours, then transfer to a purged smaller conical and proceed with dry hopping at 50F. This should allow me to bubble CO2 through the bottom port a few times without fear of re-suspending yeast in the process. Hopefully when all is said and done after volume loss from the hops I'll still end up with about 5 gallons in the keg.

I'd love to hear y'alls opinions or other best practices for those of you with conicals. My recipe is below so I can post updates on the outcome

OG: 1.066
Yeast: 50/50 split S-04 & S-05

13# 2-row
2# malted oats
2# white wheat
1# carafoam

1 oz citra @ 20 min
1 oz cashmere @ 15 min
1 oz cashmere @ 10 min
3 oz citra @170F WP for 15 min
3 oz cashmere @ 170F WP for 15 min
4 oz citra DH after ferm complete @ 50F
4 oz cashmere DH after ferm complete @ 50F
I do not ferment in conical’s so unfortunately I can’t answer your question directly. Your plan does sound like it will work and I would certainly go ahead and try it. Have you considered trying the DryHop keg technique? Obviously you have to get the dip to filter or whatever set up you’d prefer, but I really do like the results from it.

If you can crash out your yeast in the fermenter and then transfer it into the DryHop keg, the rousing and re-suspending of the hops is so easy. You can also add additional pressure if you want to dry hop under pressure, just as you would be able to in your fermenter.

It obviously would require you putting together a couple pieces of equipment, but it’s really pretty simple and straightforward. Certainly worth a try if you’re looking to improve on hop character.
 

R.A.I.D

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2020
Messages
134
Reaction score
69
I did an interesting comparison recently with 3 yeasts. Did a 3x5G batch of 85% pils malt /15% oat malt and pitched separate yeasts into each - S33, S04 and Verdant.

Here are the notes I took when I racked them to my dry hop kegs:

S33
fairly suflury, not really hoppy. pleasant taste, not too sweet. seemed a little more yeast or haze than s04 perhaps?
very lagery character.
S04
looks like a lot more yeast on bottom of fermenter than S33. definitely less haze for sure with S04. it has a kind of candied apple aroma and no sulfur really.
it tastes a little fruitier and a little crisper. i prefer it to the S33 for sure at this point at least.
definitely a sort of candied apple, fruity character in S04 and a crispness or maybe tartness i guess. no sulfur or lagery character really.
jenni says S04 is a little tarter, and i think that is right actually. a little bit of a sour apple character
verdant
definitely the most **** on the bottom of the fermenter and a little krausen ring at the top. has a slight sulfury aroma.
similar clarity to S04.
definitely the driest taste and much drier in reality! wow! kind of a neutral flavor. sulfur is very very light but more than S04.
a little bland
At this point I like the S04 best I think.

I did a small bittering charge and then added about 0.5 oz/gal of a blend of citra/waimea/I7/eureka! (2019 crops) in the hop stand. I was surprised at how little hop flavor there was in this from the hop stand. Maybe I'll play with adding hops at 10 minutes next time.
Great comparison.

Any notes on the aroma? My brew with most intense aroma was brewed with S-33.
 

geebarr

New Member
Joined
May 31, 2020
Messages
4
Reaction score
6
I do not ferment in conical’s so unfortunately I can’t answer your question directly. Your plan does sound like it will work and I would certainly go ahead and try it. Have you considered trying the DryHop keg technique? Obviously you have to get the dip to filter or whatever set up you’d prefer, but I really do like the results from it.

If you can crash out your yeast in the fermenter and then transfer it into the DryHop keg, the rousing and re-suspending of the hops is so easy. You can also add additional pressure if you want to dry hop under pressure, just as you would be able to in your fermenter.

It obviously would require you putting together a couple pieces of equipment, but it’s really pretty simple and straightforward. Certainly worth a try if you’re looking to improve on hop character.
For sure, that's definitely my fallback if this technique doesn't improve things. I have this insane obsession with trying to emulate the big guys in my basement :rolleyes:
 

secretlevel

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2019
Messages
245
Reaction score
173
Location
Chicago, IL
For sure, that's definitely my fallback if this technique doesn't improve things. I have this insane obsession with trying to emulate the big guys in my basement :rolleyes:
While Tree House will be Tree House with their crazy yeast blends, but I know that most other guys don't use S-04 or US-05 for these IPA's. I'd try to get London Ale 3 if you want to go for a sweeter IPA or Conan for something a little more balanced.
 

BeerFst

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2014
Messages
461
Reaction score
205
Location
Patchogue
My issue on the homebrew scale is that it's extremely hard to drop/dump all of the yeast before the dry hop without losing a third of my batch down the drain (I really think a 2" dump port on a fermenter of this size is overkill).
I dont own a conical, but when i've seen people on instagram dump yeast they use a 2" to 1/2" barb, then add a hose to said barb. I assume they put on a PSI or two to push it out. I also bet they feather the butterfly valve the whole time to limit actual batch loss.
 

Noob_Brewer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Messages
1,150
Reaction score
2,236
Location
Eastern, NC
So Im planning my next brew with A38 Juice. After reading through this thread and searching for AA characteristics, Im seeing 70-80% range and the manufacturer suggests its 72-76% AA. Beersmith tells me Im going to hit 77% AA (it bumped up due to step mash: 150 for 45 minutes and 163 for 30 minutes with 10min mash out). How many here use dextrose with Juice? Any other experiences here with Juice are welcomed. Saw @couchsending suggest 80% AA is feasible with proper O2 and dextrose and mashing low. Not sure if I want to go the dextrose route on this but also don't want to end up at 1.021ish. My target OG is 1.074 and would like it to finish around 1.014 but would live if its in the 1.015-1.016 range. So dextrose to get it to my target seems to be necessary otherwise start with a lower OG. Thoughts? So many variables lol.

EDIT: also plan on a standard pitch rate of 0.75.
 

Bohern

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jul 21, 2019
Messages
311
Reaction score
104
Location
Northwest Ga
Man.... I wonder if it is the Amarillo then. The cashmere description you guys have is exactly what I wanted and if you guys are both typically getting that, it's probably not the cashmere. I should have listened about the Amarillo. Oh well, there's always next time. Still a solid beer IMO.

In answer to your other question, total hop load was 3.25oz/gal with 2oz/gal in the dry hop. Instead of using my hop spider, boiled with a BIAB bag in the kettle so that all the hops were contained and didn't make it to the tank. Also kegged using a new filter (shown below). Absolutely zero hop burn in this beer. We're getting there!

View attachment 730497
@Rob2010SS how do you like this filter / strainer? I ask cause I looked at one but went with the Bouncer Pro. I have the same unitank as you and was concerned about the weight on the front and the port. Would like to hear your thoughts and that of any others too.

Thanks
 

couchsending

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 21, 2016
Messages
2,973
Reaction score
1,989
So Im planning my next brew with A38 Juice. After reading through this thread and searching for AA characteristics, Im seeing 70-80% range and the manufacturer suggests its 72-76% AA. Beersmith tells me Im going to hit 77% AA (it bumped up due to step mash: 150 for 45 minutes and 163 for 30 minutes with 10min mash out). How many here use dextrose with Juice? Any other experiences here with Juice are welcomed. Saw @couchsending suggest 80% AA is feasible with proper O2 and dextrose and mashing low. Not sure if I want to go the dextrose route on this but also don't want to end up at 1.021ish. My target OG is 1.074 and would like it to finish around 1.014 but would live if its in the 1.015-1.016 range. So dextrose to get it to my target seems to be necessary otherwise start with a lower OG. Thoughts? So many variables lol.

EDIT: also plan on a standard pitch rate of 0.75.
You’re going to need more yeast, lots of o2, and some dextrose If you want to get to 78/79% attenuation out of Juice especially if it’s first gen.
 

HopsAreGood

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2019
Messages
681
Reaction score
938
Location
New Jersey
1074-1014 is 81%. If you want to get 1318/juice to do that you NEED to mash low, use dextrose, aerate like crazy, and make a big starter.

It’s a great strain but it craps out a lot. Without the above I would expect closer to 70-73%.

Sometimes it quits on me in the 1030s. I’ve never used juice but have used 1318/omega British ale V.
 

Noob_Brewer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Messages
1,150
Reaction score
2,236
Location
Eastern, NC
1074-1014 is 81%. If you want to get 1318/juice to do that you NEED to mash low, use dextrose, aerate like crazy, and make a big starter.

It’s a great strain but it craps out a lot. Without the above I would expect closer to 70-73%.

Sometimes it quits on me in the 1030s. I’ve never used juice but have used 1318/omega British ale V.
Appreciate it. based on these comments and couch sending, I will increase the pitch rate, and adjusting my step mash to stay low a little longer, adding dextrose, and aerate WELL. I have a cheapy amazon flow meter to use as a point of reference. also need to get another oxygen cylinder as I think my current one is about out lol. Thanks.
 

couchsending

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 21, 2016
Messages
2,973
Reaction score
1,989
can you be more specific with "more yeast"? pitch rate?
High gravity pitch rates are well north of .75 and unless you have a microscope you have no clue what you’re actually pitching.

If you’re looking for decent attenuation and a successful fermentation lots of yeast is what you need. This is not a cheap beer to make. Under pitching is the easiest way to ruin it.

Keep the fermentation cool for the first few days then let it climb to finish out.

I’ve never tried it as I rarely ever make beers over 6.5% but you could consider adding your simple sugar source (dex, candi syrup, honey) mid fermentation so the yeast doesn’t get fat and lazy by consuming all the simple sugars first. Might lead to a cleaner ferment and a beer that drinks much easier than its ABV would indicate.
 

aaronm13

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2017
Messages
332
Reaction score
179
Location
Dublin, Ireland
So Im planning my next brew with A38 Juice. After reading through this thread and searching for AA characteristics, Im seeing 70-80% range and the manufacturer suggests its 72-76% AA. Beersmith tells me Im going to hit 77% AA (it bumped up due to step mash: 150 for 45 minutes and 163 for 30 minutes with 10min mash out). How many here use dextrose with Juice? Any other experiences here with Juice are welcomed. Saw @couchsending suggest 80% AA is feasible with proper O2 and dextrose and mashing low. Not sure if I want to go the dextrose route on this but also don't want to end up at 1.021ish. My target OG is 1.074 and would like it to finish around 1.014 but would live if its in the 1.015-1.016 range. So dextrose to get it to my target seems to be necessary otherwise start with a lower OG. Thoughts? So many variables lol.

EDIT: also plan on a standard pitch rate of 0.75.
Haven't used Juice but used LAIII a few times now and in my experience you'll struggle to get that high of attenuation. As Hops are Good said, it likes to crap out in the 1.030 range. The three times I've used it my OG was 1.080 and couldn't get it below 1.020 except the last time when it died at 1.033 and added a half pack of US-05, this got me to 1.019. Now I did under pitch and only oxygenated for 1 minute. Mashed at 151 so obviously a lower mash temperature will help you out. You could also cut it with some dry yeast at the start to help finish up, might get you a bit lower. Good luck with it and report back how it goes. I do like this strain but find it too troublesome to work with on higher gravity beers anyway.
 

stickyfinger

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
2,250
Reaction score
590
Location
Hudson Valley
This was all pre-dryhop so... The most notable difference was the S33 was a sulfury lagery aroma and the S04 was an apple-like aroma. The Verdant was pretty neutral.

Great comparison.

Any notes on the aroma? My brew with most intense aroma was brewed with S-33.
 

Rob2010SS

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 16, 2017
Messages
3,011
Reaction score
1,148
Location
Spring Grove
@Rob2010SS how do you like this filter / strainer? I ask cause I looked at one but went with the Bouncer Pro. I have the same unitank as you and was concerned about the weight on the front and the port. Would like to hear your thoughts and that of any others too.

Thanks
Hey man. I've only used the filter once. I love it. I used a bouncer filter previously, however, I didn't have the pro. I bought the one that had the very small opening and exit and it clogged on me constantly. I bought this strainer because I didn't want to take a chance on the bouncer in case it failed. This strainer never clogged and I got 3 full kegs with absolutely zero particulate. It is a little cumbersome to purge it of O2. I think I'll end up buying a T pipe to put between the filter and the tank, put a PRV on the T, and hook up a CO2 ball lock connector on the end of the filter and purge it that way going forward. That would make it easier.

After feeling how heavy this filter was, I was initially worried about the weight as well. However, it's not bad once it's connected. The tank was still very stable. Highly recommend this. I wouldn't cough up the cash on the Brewers Hardware version. I would get the cheaper Dernord version off of Amazon (that's the one I got).
 

Noob_Brewer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Messages
1,150
Reaction score
2,236
Location
Eastern, NC
Hey man. I've only used the filter once. I love it. I used a bouncer filter previously, however, I didn't have the pro. I bought the one that had the very small opening and exit and it clogged on me constantly. I bought this strainer because I didn't want to take a chance on the bouncer in case it failed. This strainer never clogged and I got 3 full kegs with absolutely zero particulate. It is a little cumbersome to purge it of O2. I think I'll end up buying a T pipe to put between the filter and the tank, put a PRV on the T, and hook up a CO2 ball lock connector on the end of the filter and purge it that way going forward. That would make it easier.

After feeling how heavy this filter was, I was initially worried about the weight as well. However, it's not bad once it's connected. The tank was still very stable. Highly recommend this. I wouldn't cough up the cash on the Brewers Hardware version. I would get the cheaper Dernord version off of Amazon (that's the one I got).
That setup looks badass man! In line with the guy who said it looks like it needs a pair of pants, I'd add that if you are concerned about it being front heavy due to the impressively endowed member, a nice SS hoist/athletic supporter/jock strap might help. 😂 Seriously though, looks great.
 

Rob2010SS

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 16, 2017
Messages
3,011
Reaction score
1,148
Location
Spring Grove
That setup looks badass man! In line with the guy who said it looks like it needs a pair of pants, I'd add that if you are concerned about it being front heavy due to the impressively endowed member, a nice SS hoist/athletic supporter/jock strap might help. 😂 Seriously though, looks great.
Thanks man. Lucky to have a wife who likes beer as much as I do and is all about the nice equipment.

While I'm here, an update on this NEIPA. It has aged beautifully. The herbal/grassy character has died down significantly to where I don't even notice it at this point. It's showing characters of grapefruit, orange, tangerine, MAYYYYBE a hint of apricot, peach. It's pretty tasty and super easy drinking. I used a BIAB bag in the boil kettle so no hops made it over to the fermenter. That in combination with the soft crash prior to dry hopping and the filter, there is no hop burn on this at all. Time to start building the next one!!

NEIPA.jpg
 

Bohern

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jul 21, 2019
Messages
311
Reaction score
104
Location
Northwest Ga
Hey man. I've only used the filter once. I love it. I used a bouncer filter previously, however, I didn't have the pro. I bought the one that had the very small opening and exit and it clogged on me constantly. I bought this strainer because I didn't want to take a chance on the bouncer in case it failed. This strainer never clogged and I got 3 full kegs with absolutely zero particulate. It is a little cumbersome to purge it of O2. I think I'll end up buying a T pipe to put between the filter and the tank, put a PRV on the T, and hook up a CO2 ball lock connector on the end of the filter and purge it that way going forward. That would make it easier.

After feeling how heavy this filter was, I was initially worried about the weight as well. However, it's not bad once it's connected. The tank was still very stable. Highly recommend this. I wouldn't cough up the cash on the Brewers Hardware version. I would get the cheaper Dernord version off of Amazon (that's the one I got).
Thanks for the reply man! I going to give the bouncer pro a go and see how it works since I got it. The opening s are large so the only issue would be the filter itself as best I can tell. However, if it give me any issue I going to go this route that you have.

I keep tabs on this thread and learned a bunch from you all, keep up the great work and happy brewing.

Cheers!
Brian
 

Dgallo

If you ain’t first, you’re last Ricky Bobby
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 15, 2017
Messages
5,228
Reaction score
10,238
Location
Albany
Thanks man. Lucky to have a wife who likes beer as much as I do and is all about the nice equipment.

While I'm here, an update on this NEIPA. It has aged beautifully. The herbal/grassy character has died down significantly to where I don't even notice it at this point. It's showing characters of grapefruit, orange, tangerine, MAYYYYBE a hint of apricot, peach. It's pretty tasty and super easy drinking. I used a BIAB bag in the boil kettle so no hops made it over to the fermenter. That in combination with the soft crash prior to dry hopping and the filter, there is no hop burn on this at all. Time to start building the next one!!

View attachment 731977
Looks good. those spruces look good too lol
 

couchsending

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 21, 2016
Messages
2,973
Reaction score
1,989
Haven't used Juice but used LAIII a few times now and in my experience you'll struggle to get that high of attenuation. As Hops are Good said, it likes to crap out in the 1.030 range. The three times I've used it my OG was 1.080 and couldn't get it below 1.020 except the last time when it died at 1.033 and added a half pack of US-05, this got me to 1.019. Now I did under pitch and only oxygenated for 1 minute. Mashed at 151 so obviously a lower mash temperature will help you out. You could also cut it with some dry yeast at the start to help finish up, might get you a bit lower. Good luck with it and report back how it goes. I do like this strain but find it too troublesome to work with on higher gravity beers anyway.
For highish gravity beers and 1st gen LAIII you can always blend in some US05, 001,
1056 right from the start to help with attenuation. I know Monkish has done this in the past (and maybe still does??)

Or you can also blend in some Conan. Imperial offers custom blends for the pros and Barbarian/Juice 30/70 is rather popular from what I gather.
 

HopsAreGood

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2019
Messages
681
Reaction score
938
Location
New Jersey
For highish gravity beers and 1st gen LAIII you can always blend in some US05, 001,
1056 right from the start to help with attenuation. I know Monkish has done this in the past (and maybe still does??)

Or you can also blend in some Conan. Imperial offers custom blends for the pros and Barbarian/Juice 30/70 is rather popular from what I gather.
If you want to go the dry yeast route, pitch 1 pack of verdant, 1 pack of New England and a little bit of dextrose. I consistently get 80% attenuation and love the results. Works out to be roughly 66/33 or 70/30 LA3/Conan based on cell count/viability.
 

TBA

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2020
Messages
63
Reaction score
24
If you want to go the dry yeast route, pitch 1 pack of verdant, 1 pack of New England and a little bit of dextrose. I consistently get 80% attenuation and love the results. Works out to be roughly 66/33 or 70/30 LA3/Conan based on cell count/viability.
Do you ever repitch the yeast cake from this mixture?
 

HopsAreGood

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2019
Messages
681
Reaction score
938
Location
New Jersey
Do you ever repitch the yeast cake from this mixture?
Nope, I have not. I just use a fresh pack of each each time. You certainly could but the ratio will change with each successive pitch. Likely more towards the verdant as it seems to be the more dominant of the two.
 
Last edited:

palmtrees

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2013
Messages
144
Reaction score
112
Location
Atlanta
I'm drawing up my first NEIPA recipe. I'm more of a WCIPA person, but now that I keg and have a pressure capable fermenter, I want to give this style a try.

Anyone have any feedback on this hop combo? I've chosen these from my freezer stash.

-Bitter with a touch of Centennial at 60 minutes
-Whirlpool with Citra and Idaho 7 (lupomax)
-Dry hop with Citra, Idaho 7 (lupomax), Ekuanot, and Talus

And can anyone share the current conventional wisdom on adding some late boil hops vs. doing everything in whirlpool? I've seen some conflicting thoughts in this thread, and can't quite figure out the consensus.

Thanks!
 

Dgallo

If you ain’t first, you’re last Ricky Bobby
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 15, 2017
Messages
5,228
Reaction score
10,238
Location
Albany
-Bitter with a touch of Centennial at 60 minutes
-Whirlpool with Citra and Idaho 7 (lupomax)
-Dry hop with Citra, Idaho 7 (lupomax), Ekuanot, and Talus
Citra and Idaho 7 work great. I haven’t had great luck with Ekuanot when I used it in general. Got like a fleshy green pepper thing but I also haven’t used it in a few years and I’ve heard people have had good success with it recently

my person advice would be to stick with the just the Idaho 7 and Citra.

When it comes to late boil hops, I like to get roughly 20% of hops in boil (sometimes even more). I feel This just adds a layer of depth that can be achieved elsewhere in the brewing process
 

Dgallo

If you ain’t first, you’re last Ricky Bobby
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 15, 2017
Messages
5,228
Reaction score
10,238
Location
Albany
Haven’t brewed a NEIPA in a while but I’m going to end up doing a split 12 gallon batch(6gal into both fermenters)this week at some point

Water
Ca: 120
Mg: 16
Cl: 230
Na: 84
So4: 138
5.3 ph

grains
77% - 2row
20% - spelt
3% - honey malt

Mash
40 mins - 146
30 mins - 162
10 mins - mash out

yeast
Imperial a24 - dryhop
(0.65 million cell/ml/*p)

Hotside hops
Columbus t90 @ 60 & 10 - target 30ibu

whirlpool @ 170*f for 20 mins
Columbus LUPOMAX
Cascade LUPOMAX
1:1 ratio

Dryhop FV 1
Enigma
Nelson
Mosaic LUPOMAX
2:1:1
(Going for dank assorted berry profile

Dryhop FV 2
Bru-1 t90 & LUPOMAX
Vic Secret
Sabro LUPOMAX
3:1:1
(Going for pineapple/island tropical profile)

softcrashing and dryhoping at 56-58*f

Will follow up when in the keg
So FV 1 just got tapped this morning. Enigma, Mosaic LUPOMAX, and Nelson. Actual og was 1.071 and finished 1.012 so we are right around 7.8%. Lots of berry/wine notes with some earthy resinous notes in the finish. There’s also the undeniable NZ oil like notes

. This beer is exceptionally soft. I think spelt reall does make a difference. 100% top tier quality all together. Very excited to see how the other beer shapes up
ABBA89FF-7D1E-4B66-BAB2-9721A15034CB.jpeg
 
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
778
Reaction score
1,315
Location
duncannon
Wanted to loop you all in on my current experiment. I ferment in spike conicals and have been struggling to get the same hop saturation/flavor as some of my favorite commercial examples. Haze has also been somewhat lacking. I know many of you dry hop in corny kegs and are able to agitate numerous times during the process to keep the hops in suspension - this isn't really an option in conicals. I've been intrigued by Janish's article re: burping on the commercial scale to rouse the hops a few times during the DH stage. My issue on the homebrew scale is that it's extremely hard to drop/dump all of the yeast before the dry hop without losing a third of my batch down the drain (I really think a 2" dump port on a fermenter of this size is overkill). My fear is that if I were to "burp" my tank with a bunch of yeast still in the cone, I'd be stirring up some undesirable things back into suspension. Especially since my goal as been to soft crash most of the yeast out of suspension prior to dry hop.

So...I over-compensated on volume of this batch to yield 9 gallons pre-boil and finished with just over 7 gallons into my larger conical. Once fermentation is complete I plan to soft crash to 50F for 24 hours, then transfer to a purged smaller conical and proceed with dry hopping at 50F. This should allow me to bubble CO2 through the bottom port a few times without fear of re-suspending yeast in the process. Hopefully when all is said and done after volume loss from the hops I'll still end up with about 5 gallons in the keg.

I'd love to hear y'alls opinions or other best practices for those of you with conicals. My recipe is below so I can post updates on the outcome

OG: 1.066
Yeast: 50/50 split S-04 & S-05

13# 2-row
2# malted oats
2# white wheat
1# carafoam

1 oz citra @ 20 min
1 oz cashmere @ 15 min
1 oz cashmere @ 10 min
3 oz citra @170F WP for 15 min
3 oz cashmere @ 170F WP for 15 min
4 oz citra DH after ferm complete @ 50F
4 oz cashmere DH after ferm complete @ 50F
I ferment in spike cf15's so its a 15 gallon batch, I start with that sucker full as can be for neipa's knowing I am gonna loose 2 gallon so I get it to 17.5 gallons. I do a soft crash to 50f then dump yeast, when I do that my process is to put a 2 inch elbow on with a 1/2 inch nipple on the other end followed by an 18 inch piece of clear hose. I use a sight glass, and start buy opening the valve 1 notch at a time, pausing for 30 seconds or so until I see movement in the sight glass. I use the sight glass to watch how things are moving and go as slow as possible, this process takes about 10 to 15 minutes and I do it about 3 times or until I collect about 1 gallon of trub. Then I proceed to dry hop for 2 or 3 days at 50f then I crash to 36f for a day or 2 and do the same trub dropping process before I keg. Before I purchased the sight glass my process was not as efficient but similar. I do not rouse the hops when I dry hop and usually my dry hop charge is about 1.25 oz per gallon. I do let my hops warm up to room temp before I drop them in, obviously purging co2 while doing so. The trub dumping process took me some time to nail down but go slow with it, I run about 2 to 3 psi of co2 and even if I get a real stubborn one eventually it will start moving.
 

aaronm13

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2017
Messages
332
Reaction score
179
Location
Dublin, Ireland
So FV 1 just got tapped this morning. Enigma, Mosaic LUPOMAX, and Nelson. Actual og was 1.071 and finished 1.012 so we are right around 7.8%. Lots of berry/wine notes with some earthy resinous notes in the finish. There’s also the undeniable NZ oil like notes

. This beer is exceptionally soft. I think spelt reall does make a difference. 100% top tier quality all together. Very excited to see how the other beer shapes up View attachment 732184
That looks absolutely fantastic. Has a real Omnipollo look to it with the ice cream type head. So are you sold on spelt now? Can't wait to see how the other batch turns out.
 

Dgallo

If you ain’t first, you’re last Ricky Bobby
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 15, 2017
Messages
5,228
Reaction score
10,238
Location
Albany
That looks absolutely fantastic. Has a real Omnipollo look to it with the ice cream type head. So are you sold on spelt now? Can't wait to see how the other batch turns out.
Thanks man. So far so good with it. It’s a little early to make a call on it. I’ll have a better idea in a few weeks when both beers are conditioned a little. I should be taping the other beer tomorrow evening. I’ll update on that one and then again in a few weeks
 
Last edited:

Rob2010SS

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 16, 2017
Messages
3,011
Reaction score
1,148
Location
Spring Grove
So FV 1 just got tapped this morning. Enigma, Mosaic LUPOMAX, and Nelson. Actual og was 1.071 and finished 1.012 so we are right around 7.8%. Lots of berry/wine notes with some earthy resinous notes in the finish. There’s also the undeniable NZ oil like notes

. This beer is exceptionally soft. I think spelt reall does make a difference. 100% top tier quality all together. Very excited to see how the other beer shapes up View attachment 732184
This looks fantastic!!! Makes me thirsty!!
 

couchsending

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 21, 2016
Messages
2,973
Reaction score
1,989
I ferment in spike cf15's so its a 15 gallon batch, I start with that sucker full as can be for neipa's knowing I am gonna loose 2 gallon so I get it to 17.5 gallons. I do a soft crash to 50f then dump yeast, when I do that my process is to put a 2 inch elbow on with a 1/2 inch nipple on the other end followed by an 18 inch piece of clear hose. I use a sight glass, and start buy opening the valve 1 notch at a time, pausing for 30 seconds or so until I see movement in the sight glass. I use the sight glass to watch how things are moving and go as slow as possible, this process takes about 10 to 15 minutes and I do it about 3 times or until I collect about 1 gallon of trub. Then I proceed to dry hop for 2 or 3 days at 50f then I crash to 36f for a day or 2 and do the same trub dropping process before I keg. Before I purchased the sight glass my process was not as efficient but similar. I do not rouse the hops when I dry hop and usually my dry hop charge is about 1.25 oz per gallon. I do let my hops warm up to room temp before I drop them in, obviously purging co2 while doing so. The trub dumping process took me some time to nail down but go slow with it, I run about 2 to 3 psi of co2 and even if I get a real stubborn one eventually it will start moving.
If you’re looking for more hop saturation you have to use more hops. Most commercial breweries are using 4#/bbl for that ABV. Everyone will say the impact drops after 2#/bbl and while you might not get that much more aroma or flavor but you do get more generic overall oil/hop Impact. An 8#/bbl Monkish dry hop is a drastically different experience than a 2#/bbl DH believe me.

Also a lot of these commercial breweries are using centrifuges and carbonating beer in under 24 hours. They can turn beers around much faster than you can on the Homebrew setting.

Yeah the 2” dump port on the Spike conicals is dumb seeing as 300 bbl tanks only have 1.5” ports. Especially when the tank can hold pressure.

Personally I wouldn’t transfer. Regardless of how well you think you do it you’re not going to be able to purge that receiving vessel well enough to make it worth it. I’ve burped tanks with Co2 a few times and really didn’t notice much of a difference. I’d say try splitting the dry hop into two charges. 24 hours apart. That for me made the biggest impact on hop saturation.
 
Top