New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[eugles]

I get decent flavors out of the fermenter, but they don't really hit their peak until 2-3 weeks after the dry hop.

Go ahead and follow Dgallo's recipe or the one from Braufessor (see pg.1). Then wait for the fermentantion to finish, soft crash to 55-58 for a day and drop in 2oz/gallon of banger hops like Galaxy, Citra, or Mosaic. I'll be truly amazed if you don't get killer flavors in this. If this doesn't work, you might just have an infection.

What yeast do you use?

Gents if I'm not wrong, oxidation would usually mean that the beer turns relatively brown and tastes like cardboard. Is this the case?

Will do! I've used a boat ton of different yeasts, and sadly they are all much the same to my beers...as are the hops. I'm positive I don't have an infection at this point as I've made some other non hoppy beers that have turned out fantastic.

I'm pretty positive it is oxidation, I'm just a total loss of where it is. Going to continue asking the mundane questions if you don't mind. How do you deal with oxidation while dry hopping post terminal? Just soft crash for a day to get it to 55, open fermenter and throw hops in? Any special precautions?

 

[VirginiaHops1]

This seems like you’d lose a lot of aroma from the off gassing produced by the dry hop addition. You close it up and repressurize it fast? How do you avoid the off gas?

I have a dry hop keg already loaded with hops and purged during fermentation, so I just closed transfer over when ready to dry hop. I started doing that awhile back and it's seemed to work really well so I've kept doing it.

In the video I saw they were pushing co2 in limit o2 pick up at dryhoping, i don’t recall if the beer it’s self was carbed at that point. Then I know they dryhop under a low pressure to keep surface tension

I'm not sure how just blowing CO2 into a tank would cause beer to geyser out the top, any more than beer blows out the top of a corny when you're pushing in CO2. The video I saw definitely seemed like it was caused by nucleation points from the dry hop charge. I've heard if you throw hops on carbonated beer you'll get a ton of nucleation points, although I've never done it with my keg open.

 

[SanPancho]

I have a dry hop keg already loaded with hops and purged during fermentation, so I just closed transfer over when ready to dry hop. I started doing that awhile back and it's seemed to work really well so I've kept doing it.

I'm not sure how just blowing CO2 into a tank would cause beer to geyser out the top, any more than beer blows out the top of a corny when you're pushing in CO2. The video I saw definitely seemed like it was caused by nucleation points from the dry hop charge. I've heard if you throw hops on carbonated beer you'll get a ton of nucleation points, although I've never done it with my keg open.

that was what i was getting at. even half carbed beer, i.e. spunded for only last 2-3 points, has enough co2 breakout when you dump in hops that you can get volcanoes of foam. which is why i didnt understand how that could work for you. but if the hops are already there in the serving keg then i guess that makes sense. although to be honest, i'd still imagine you're gonna get a ton of foam in the receiving keg as it fills, you just wouldnt see it or notice it since its sealed keg.

in any case, what gallo was referring to is that the gas blown into tank is to create positive pressure so that when you open the dry hop port and dump the hops in that the ambient air cannot (in theory) get in as there is a flow of co2 out the port.

 

[stickyfinger]

If u use a keg to ferment just pop the lid with dry hop charge in a large mouth plastic countainer in the other hand. Dump in the dry hops VERY fast to the large opening and then with the other hand QUICKLY put on the keg lid. It can work fine but you have to be FAST if the beer is carbonated

 

[VirginiaHops1]

that was what i was getting at. even half carbed beer, i.e. spunded for only last 2-3 points, has enough co2 breakout when you dump in hops that you can get volcanoes of foam. which is why i didnt understand how that could work for you. but if the hops are already there in the serving keg then i guess that makes sense. although to be honest, i'd still imagine you're gonna get a ton of foam in the receiving keg as it fills, you just wouldnt see it or notice it since its sealed keg.

in any case, what gallo was referring to is that the gas blown into tank is to create positive pressure so that when you open the dry hop port and dump the hops in that the ambient air cannot (in theory) get in as there is a flow of co2 out the port.

I may have some foam in my dry hop keg but it doesn't really matter since it's all sealed. It's not my serving keg FWIW, after my dry hop is done I closed transfer one last time to the serving keg. I don't like leaving hops on my beer too long.

I agree with the positive pressure theory, it's just that not that many homebrew fermenters can do it. I did that for awhile on my fermenter kegs but the problem is they open inward, so I really have to crack the seal before I start pushing significant CO2 pressure. SS conicals like the pros use, yeah they probably do a better job because they open outwards. To eliminate the issue on my system I just stopped opening the fermenter after fermentation was complete.

 

[R.A.I.D]

I’ve been consistently using s33 and underpitching it a little and I love it. Way better than 1318 personally.

So out of the tree yeast strains in your original blend you nailed it down to s33 causing the fantastic aroma and taste.
Does a beer fermented with s33 stay hazy like one with 1318?

 

[Frieds]

I used Malted Oats for the first time today and my goodness they are a dream to work with compared to Rolled Oats.

 

[HopsAreGood]

So out of the tree yeast strains in your original blend you nailed it down to s33 causing the fantastic aroma and taste.
Does a beer fermented with s33 stay hazy like one with 1318?

I’ve been curious about playing with s-33 as well. According to the fermentis descriptions it seems it would be perfect but no one ever brings it up when choosing yeast for these beers.

“S-33 has the juiciest character and allows the release of intense hop tropical notes;”

https://fermentis.com/en/yeast-to-brew-a-neipa/

 

[SanPancho]

A couple minutes of weeks ago I would have said it’s possible because Strata hops are amazing but I’ve been consistently using s33 and underpitching it a little and I love it. Way better than 1318 personally.

did you do the split fermentation a while back with s33 and few others? Id asked you about the esters from s33 but don’t recall your answer.

cant find those posts, should’ve bookmarkEd it.

 

[pmaster]

I did Amarillo/Mosaic/Vic Secret recently, which I'm guessing would be somewhat similar. I definitely enjoyed it, but for me, it had a little too much going on in terms of flavor and aroma - everything from pine, tropical fruit, citrus, berry, melon... I would have preferred to highlight just 2 or 3 of those.

Im in the process of brewing right now! I guess I'll give it a go anyway and see how i like it. Do you remember what ratios you used last time?

 

[kevink]

@eugles, where do you get your hops, how do you store them, and how old are they when you use them? I recently tracked down a weird problem I had where certain batches would suck for no apparent reason. All of these sucky batches used hops that were more than about a year old. I thought they should be fine since they were vacuum sealed and frozen, buy apparently age really matters even if kept under ideal conditions.

 

[TyYoda]

Imo, a major source of cold side oxidation is the cold crash. As the beer gets cold, the beer volume shrinks and O2 is sucked into the fermenter. I use a mylar balloon (credit to Marchall Schott - 7 methods for reducing cold-side oxidation when brewing) inflated with co2 connected to the fermenter. This way, CO2 is sucked into the fermenter as the beer volume shrinks during the cold crash. Anyway, I follow Schott's 7 methods and I've never had any oxidation issues with my NEIPAs ever.

 

[eugles]

@eugles, where do you get your hops, how do you store them, and how old are they when you use them? I recently tracked down a weird problem I had where certain batches would suck for no apparent reason. All of these sucky batches used hops that were more than about a year old. I thought they should be fine since they were vacuum sealed and frozen, buy apparently age really matters even if kept under ideal conditions.

Totally thought the same thing. I store mine in vacuum sealed bags and have had the same issue with brand new tags straight from Yakima valley hops

 

[eugles]

A couple of questions that I have had for a long time, but finally took the time to write down. Would love some help with these.

• A majority of pro brewers do not cool their wort after the boil and before adding hops flameout hops. I know this is an area of interest for some breweries, but not everyone is equipped to do this. The hops sit around for a long time at high heat due to the thermal mass of the wort and the time it takes to cool the wort. I’ve heard from some pros it takes an hour or more. Why is it that the neipa community has adopted whirlpooling at say 160F or so and then letting the temperature decay over 20-30 mins. If we are trying to replicate the beers from pro breweries, shouldn’t we be whirlpooling right at flameout and maintaining temp? Lower temps do not isomerize all those awesome hop oils which makes sense, but like I mentioned, aren’t the pros isomerizing them?
• A lot of recipes seem to suggest killing the flame, throwing in some hops, and begin chilling right away. What’s the advantage of doing that if you are at isomerization temps for like a minute before you are cooling already and down a significant amount of temperature?
• Dry hopping. Some pro brewers I hear on podcasts and such talk about the importance of crashing out yeast before dry hopping. It’s known that yeast pulls hop oils with it so the more yeast you can get out the better. For us homebrewers that don’t have cool conincals, this is an it hard to do without oxidation. However, at the same time, another contingent of brewers discuss the importance of dry hopping at fermentation temps, at the very tail end of fermentation to allow yeast to scrub any introduced oxygen. Is it just a meter of preference?

 

[stickyfinger]

just put a cold crash guardian from brew hardware or a mylar balloom filled with CO2 on before cold crash. No problem. I have been cold crashing and then warming back up to 70F for dry hop. I will never go back to biotransformation hopping or dry hopping at soft crash temps. This is an ideal procedure. Amazing long lasting juicy hop flavor. But it takes much longer and requires some care.

A couple of questions that I have had for a long time, but finally took the time to write down. Would love some help with these.

• A majority of pro brewers do not cool their wort after the boil and before adding hops flameout hops. I know this is an area of interest for some breweries, but not everyone is equipped to do this. The hops sit around for a long time at high heat due to the thermal mass of the wort and the time it takes to cool the wort. I’ve heard from some pros it takes an hour or more. Why is it that the neipa community has adopted whirlpooling at say 160F or so and then letting the temperature decay over 20-30 mins. If we are trying to replicate the beers from pro breweries, shouldn’t we be whirlpooling right at flameout and maintaining temp? Lower temps do not isomerize all those awesome hop oils which makes sense, but like I mentioned, aren’t the pros isomerizing them?
• A lot of recipes seem to suggest killing the flame, throwing in some hops, and begin chilling right away. What’s the advantage of doing that if you are at isomerization temps for like a minute before you are cooling already and down a significant amount of temperature?
• Dry hopping. Some pro brewers I hear on podcasts and such talk about the importance of crashing out yeast before dry hopping. It’s known that yeast pulls hop oils with it so the more yeast you can get out the better. For us homebrewers that don’t have cool conincals, this is an it hard to do without oxidation. However, at the same time, another contingent of brewers discuss the importance of dry hopping at fermentation temps, at the very tail end of fermentation to allow yeast to scrub any introduced oxygen. Is it just a meter of preference?

 

[anteater8]

Im in the process of brewing right now! I guess I'll give it a go anyway and see how i like it. Do you remember what ratios you used last time?

Yep, here you go! Don't get me wrong, it was definitely good. I've tried around 20 different hop combos and this was right in the middle of the road for me.

0.7 oz Warrior 60 min
4 oz Mosaic whirlpool (30 min 170 degrees)
4 oz Mosaic dry hop
2 oz Amarillo dry hop
2 oz Vic Secret dry hop

 

[crusader1612]

A couple of questions that I have had for a long time, but finally took the time to write down. Would love some help with these.

• A majority of pro brewers do not cool their wort after the boil and before adding hops flameout hops. I know this is an area of interest for some breweries, but not everyone is equipped to do this. The hops sit around for a long time at high heat due to the thermal mass of the wort and the time it takes to cool the wort. I’ve heard from some pros it takes an hour or more. Why is it that the neipa community has adopted whirlpooling at say 160F or so and then letting the temperature decay over 20-30 mins. If we are trying to replicate the beers from pro breweries, shouldn’t we be whirlpooling right at flameout and maintaining temp? Lower temps do not isomerize all those awesome hop oils which makes sense, but like I mentioned, aren’t the pros isomerizing them?
• A lot of recipes seem to suggest killing the flame, throwing in some hops, and begin chilling right away. What’s the advantage of doing that if you are at isomerization temps for like a minute before you are cooling already and down a significant amount of temperature?
• Dry hopping. Some pro brewers I hear on podcasts and such talk about the importance of crashing out yeast before dry hopping. It’s known that yeast pulls hop oils with it so the more yeast you can get out the better. For us homebrewers that don’t have cool conincals, this is an it hard to do without oxidation. However, at the same time, another contingent of brewers discuss the importance of dry hopping at fermentation temps, at the very tail end of fermentation to allow yeast to scrub any introduced oxygen. Is it just a meter of preference?

It's definitely an interesting discussion.

but in the interest of homebrwing, i suspect we do what we believe works bestfor our own systems, but it would be an interesting experiment for someone to try out.

In other news, i got hold of some Dry voxx kveik from lallemand, so did the below.
1.065
4.3kg pilsner
1kg pale male
1kg flaked oats
1kg wheat
200g acidulated for ph

chucked in the following at whirlpool
2 oz amarillo
2 oz azacca
1.25 oz riwaka
1 oz centennial
gave it 30 minutes and then rack into my bucket.

pitched a day 1 dryhop of 1oz centennial
with another 2.5oz at 48 hours in.

2 packs of voss kveik - unhydrated (i've been told to try it without rehydration on kveik dry strains).

then on day 5/6 the final dryhop of 3.5oz mandarina bavaria & 1.5oz loral.

will be interesting to see the difference between kveik and other strains for me, having not used it before, i tried the NEIPA lallemand strain recenly, and wasn't impressed, but keen to try london esb as a dry strain into a hazy. Has anyone tried it?

 

[stickyfinger]

I’m wondering if the current S33 train is mostly powered by fermentis rebranding a strain as NEIPA worthy lol. I doubt it competes with Juice or Dry Hop but I’m game to try it.

 

[HopsAreGood]

I’m wondering if the current S33 train is mostly powered by fermentis rebranding a strain as NEIPA worthy lol. I doubt it competes with Juice or Dry Hop but I’m game to try it.

Definitely possible. It could just be marketing but I’m intrigued especially after the previous poster said he was loving it.

 

[secretlevel]

Imo, a major source of cold side oxidation is the cold crash. As the beer gets cold, the beer volume shrinks and O2 is sucked into the fermenter. I use a mylar balloon (credit to Marchall Schott - 7 methods for reducing cold-side oxidation when brewing) inflated with co2 connected to the fermenter. This way, CO2 is sucked into the fermenter as the beer volume shrinks during the cold crash. Anyway, I follow Schott's 7 methods and I've never had any oxidation issues with my NEIPAs ever.

I'm not suffering from any oxidation issues but I thought about doing this. However only a minor fraction of the starsan gets sucked in from the airlock. By the end of the cold crash I still have almost as much airlock sanitizer as I initially had. Am I missing something here?

• Dry hopping. Some pro brewers I hear on podcasts and such talk about the importance of crashing out yeast before dry hopping. It’s known that yeast pulls hop oils with it so the more yeast you can get out the better. For us homebrewers that don’t have cool conincals, this is an it hard to do without oxidation. However, at the same time, another contingent of brewers discuss the importance of dry hopping at fermentation temps, at the very tail end of fermentation to allow yeast to scrub any introduced oxygen. Is it just a meter of preference?

What you can do is use a small dorm fridge for fermentations. When the fermentation is done, use an Inkbird to drop the temp before dry hopping.
For pro brewers - who could say, I'm pretty sure they can purge the oxygen at any point in time with CO2 so I'm not sure if O2 is of much concern to them. The breweries that still do add dry hops during active fermentation probably try to take some advantage of biotransformation.

Having listened to a ton of CB&B podcasts as well, I feel like the majority of them drop the yeast out before dry hopping. At least the newer podcasts...

 

[Dgallo]

I'm not suffering from any oxidation issues but I thought about doing this. However only a minor fraction of the starsan gets sucked in from the airlock. By the end of the cold crash I still have almost as much airlock sanitizer as I initially had. Am I missing something here?



What you can do is use a small dorm fridge for fermentations. When the fermentation is done, use an Inkbird to drop the temp before dry hopping.
For pro brewers - who could say, I'm pretty sure they can purge the oxygen at any point in time with CO2 so I'm not sure if O2 is of much concern to them. The breweries that still do add dry hops during active fermentation probably try to take some advantage of biotransformation.

Having listened to a ton of CB&B podcasts as well, I feel like the majority of them drop the yeast out before dry hopping. At least the newer podcasts...

Does you sanitizer get blown out of your airlock during fermentation?

air still gets sucked through your airlock even though the sanitizer stays in the airlock. With negative pressure your airlock is practically a bong, will suck air in and keep the liquid in place.

I personally believe if you’re not managing this you are experiencing some form of oxidation. Once you do manage this, I would bet anything that your beers will improve. Even if you believe they are excellent now, they will get even better

 

[pmaster]

Yep, here you go! Don't get me wrong, it was definitely good. I've tried around 20 different hop combos and this was right in the middle of the road for me.

0.7 oz Warrior 60 min
4 oz Mosaic whirlpool (30 min 170 degrees)
4 oz Mosaic dry hop
2 oz Amarillo dry hop
2 oz Vic Secret dry hop

Cool, so I went with something similar but Amarillo as the dominant hop.
From the aroma I got from it i'm thinking it may not be as good as the citra/mosaic/galaxy combo, but i guess ill know in 2 weeks. Ill share my thoughts then!

 

[crusader1612]

what are peoples thoughts on this?
Citra-Galaxy NEIPA: Bioconversion | The Mad Fermentationist - Homebrewing Blog

I have a friend who brews hazies pretty much religiously, but always uses expensive hops. He literally does a 200g addition spread out over the hopstand time to get a layering of hops and then dryhops a shitload more on day 1 day 3 and day 10.

but I wondered if i could emulate beers like his (they're very well made). but using cheaper alternatives such as nugget etc. plus here in NZ, we can get super cheap hops like moutere and rakau, which still have good aroma qualities for more than half the price of hops like citra etc.

Keen to try out mike's way of doing things, particularly if the decision is made to go pro at any point.

Bio-conversion would still be keen and using the citras mosaics, galaxies sauvins etc may be key.

the last question i had was the 15min addition is 1oz, whichseems high, would this be ok? i've always used lower bittering and more aroma hops in these beers, but essentially coppied my friend template using my own hops, and especially when it comes to kitchen sink beers

 

[eugles]

just put a cold crash guardian from brew hardware or a mylar balloom filled with CO2 on before cold crash. No problem. I have been cold crashing and then warming back up to 70F for dry hop. I will never go back to biotransformation hopping or dry hopping at soft crash temps. This is an ideal procedure. Amazing long lasting juicy hop flavor. But it takes much longer and requires some care.

So you are crashing down to 32 and the warming back up to dry hop? I’ve never considered that.

 

[kevink]

So you are crashing down to 32 and the warming back up to dry hop? I’ve never considered that.

Yep, I'm a firm believer in this method now, but you don't have to drop it that low. I have been going down to 55. That way, you don't spend as much time bringing it back up to your DH temp. Search this thread for "soft crash" and you'll find plenty of info.

 

[couchsending]

I honestly don’t think warming back up above 55/60 is really all that important.

Recent CB&B podcast with Dino from Vitamin Sea. Said they dry hop for 4 days at 55.

Shaun Lawson’s dry hop temp recommendations in the Sip and Double Sun recipes is 55-57.

Latest Curiosity from Treehouse speaks about cold dry hopping and conditioning.

I’ve had great success with Galaxy heavy beers as well as Mosaic heavy beers dry hopping sub 60 (usually around 58)

Got two beers going now. One will be kegged tomorrow. The other just got its second round of dry hops today. All dry hopping has been at 55-57*. They’re both tasting and smelling awesome. Both beers are very Mosaic centered and I’m getting zero of that weird Mosaic stank.

Pale ale with Mosaic and a touch of Amarillo was 36 hours at 55 before cropping yeast and adding dry hops. No rousing just leaving it. Started dropping temps after 4 days. Dumped a bunch of trub today. Will keg tomorrow AM. Been at 40-42 for around 48 hours.

Second beer is a double IPA. Spent 2 days at 55 before cropping yeast (kinda poor flocculation) and adding first round of dry hops. (3:2:1 Mosaic, Citra, Simcoe) Beer spent 2 days at 55 then I pulled more yeast and any hops that had fallen and added another dry hop of the same quantity. Will spend 2 or 3 more days at 55 before gradually cooling and transferring.

 

[eugles]

I honestly don’t think warming back up is really all that important.

Recent CB&B podcast with Dino from Vitamin Sea. Said they dry hop for 4 days at 55.

Shaun Lawson’s dry hop temp recommendations in the Sip and Double Sun recipes is 55-57.

Latest Curiosity from Treehouse speaks about cold dry hopping and conditioning.

I’ve had great success with Galaxy heavy beers as well as Mosaic heavy beers dry hopping sub 60 (usually around 58)

Got two beers going now. One will be kegged tomorrow. The other just got its second round of dry hops today. All dry hopping has been at 55-57*. They’re both tasting and smelling awesome. Both beers are very Mosaic centered and I’m getting zero of that weird Mosaic stank.

Pale ale with Mosaic and a touch of Amarillo was 36 hours at 55 before cropping yeast and adding dry hops. No rousing just leaving it. Started dropping temps after 4 days. Dumped a bunch of trub today. Will keg tomorrow AM. Been at 40-42 for around 48 hours.

Second beer is a double IPA. Spent 2 days at 55 before cropping yeast (kinda poor flocculation) and adding first round of dry hops. (3:2:1 Mosaic, Citra, Simcoe) Beer spent 2 days at 55 then I pulled more yeast and any hops that had fallen and added another dry hop of the same quantity. Will spend 2 or 3 more days at 55 before gradually cooling and transferring.

Thanks for the feedback dude. I’ve read a lot of your posts and find the info you provide is very much along the lines of what I hear from the cb&b podcasts as well. It sounds like your setup is with conicals, which I have yet to move into. I’ve been completely lost as to where in the hell all my hop aroma is going. Given I don’t have a conical, what would be in your opinion the best setup possible for making aroma heavy neipas and beers in general.

 

[Clyde McCoy]

I honestly don’t think warming back up is really all that important.

Recent CB&B podcast with Dino from Vitamin Sea. Said they dry hop for 4 days at 55.

Shaun Lawson’s dry hop temp recommendations in the Sip and Double Sun recipes is 55-57.

Latest Curiosity from Treehouse speaks about cold dry hopping and conditioning.

I’ve had great success with Galaxy heavy beers as well as Mosaic heavy beers dry hopping sub 60 (usually around 58)

Got two beers going now. One will be kegged tomorrow. The other just got its second round of dry hops today. All dry hopping has been at 55-57*. They’re both tasting and smelling awesome. Both beers are very Mosaic centered and I’m getting zero of that weird Mosaic stank.

Pale ale with Mosaic and a touch of Amarillo was 36 hours at 55 before cropping yeast and adding dry hops. No rousing just leaving it. Started dropping temps after 4 days. Dumped a bunch of trub today. Will keg tomorrow AM. Been at 40-42 for around 48 hours.

Second beer is a double IPA. Spent 2 days at 55 before cropping yeast (kinda poor flocculation) and adding first round of dry hops. (3:2:1 Mosaic, Citra, Simcoe) Beer spent 2 days at 55 then I pulled more yeast and any hops that had fallen and added another dry hop of the same quantity. Will spend 2 or 3 more days at 55 before gradually cooling and transferring.

The Alchemist dry hops at cold crash temperatures (39-42F) and recirculates the beer through a Grundy Tank full of hops in a sack of pantyhose.

Other Half dry hops at fermentation temps in the high 60s, low 70s. They don't recirculate.

As described above, many breweries are dry hopping in the ~55-60F range.

Many viable ways to dry hop.

 

[HopsAreGood]

I’m going to start using so4 more. If it’s good enough for treehouse and toppling Goliath than it’s good enough for me. I used it a few times a couple years ago and have since used all the usual suspects. I’m going to run it at 63-64 to hopefully avoid any weird tangy or bread like notes. I definitely like the idea of it fermenting fast and dropping like a complete brick without having to cool it, and then dry hopping, then cooling it once to get the hops and any remaining yeast to drop. I do have the ability to soft crash prior to dry hopping but I’m not sure if I’d even need to given its propensity for completely sticking to the bottom of the fermenter when finished.

 

[Clyde McCoy]

I’m going to start using so4 more. If it’s good enough for treehouse and toppling Goliath than it’s good enough for me. I used it a few times a couple years ago and have since used all the usual suspects. I’m going to run it at 63-64 to hopefully avoid any weird tangy or breads notes. I definitely like the idea of it fermenting fast and dropping like a complete brick without having to cool it, and then dry hopping, then cooling it once to get the hops and any remaining yeast to drop. I do have the ability to soft crash prior to dry hopping but I’m not sure if I’d even need to given its propensity for completely sticking to the bottom of the fermenter when finished.

S-04 and SO4 are your friends

 

[crusader1612]

S-04 and SO4 are your friends

How do we get it to behave? Whats the processes for keeping this yeast under control.

Th times i've used it, i've had issues basically. pretty much everytime, so i fel like im doing something wrong, cos others have had success.

 

[stickyfinger]

you can soft or cold crash of course. Either works. Cold is fast and thorough. I’ve had mixed results dry hopping at or below 60F so I prefer to just go back up to 70F. See what you prefer.

So you are crashing down to 32 and the warming back up to dry hop? I’ve never considered that.

 

[Dgallo]

I’ve been playing around with dryhop temps probably for the past 3 months and I don’t think I prefer sub 60*f dryhoping. They were smooth don’t get me wrong, but I’ve felt they were less potent than the beers I dryhop at 62-64*f. For reference, I am typically dryhoping with about 6-8 oz into 5.5-6gallon in the fermenter (will go up to 10 oz in the 9%+ abv range). I do see that the people who mention sub 60 temps are dryhoping at far higher rates than myself, so that could be a part of it but I can’t personally justify having to use more hops to dryhop cooler just to get the same potency I am getting at the low mid 60s

I do want to throw an idea out there; there is a huge difference between home brewing and commercial brewery, and that’s profitability and time is money. Maybe these breweries are dryhoping at their soft crashing temps so that they don’t have warm 10bbl + of beer 10-15 degrees to dryhop. That will take some time at that their volume. If they dryhop at the softcrash temp, they avoid that time plus the time and energy cost of cooling back over those 10-15 degrees when it’s time to full crash. So it’s certainly possible that price point is part of the driving factor for this process

 

[couchsending]

One benefit to dry hopping at lower temps is further reducing the likelihood of refermentation which could obviously have many ramifications on multiple aspects of the beer.

I don’t think that temp necessarily has and effect on the “potency” of the hop impact. It might take more time to get to a certain level but I do think that you can get different types of extraction at different temps. In these last few beers I haven’t noticed a dramatic difference in time it took to get to a rather “potent” level. I’m not sampling every 12 hours for obvious reasons but generally once after 48 hours and once after 4 days right before cooling. I’d just like to dispel the myth that you need higher temps to extract more “fruity” flavors/aromas. I don’t think that’s the case at all.

 

[HopsAreGood]

How do we get it to behave? Whats the processes for keeping this yeast under control.

Th times i've used it, i've had issues basically. pretty much everytime, so i fel like im doing something wrong, cos others have had success.

What kind of issues have you had?

 

[Dgallo]

One benefit to dry hopping at lower temps is further reducing the likelihood of refermentation which could obviously have many ramifications on multiple aspects of the beer.

Good point, I wasn’t thinking about it from a hop creep perspective

 

[couchsending]

I’ve been completely lost as to where in the hell all my hop aroma is going. Given I don’t have a conical, what would be in your opinion the best setup possible for making aroma heavy neipas and beers in general.

Im not sure actually. I think what @Dgallo uses might be a good option. I have tried to make very few hoppy beers in anything but a conical. I’m a big proponent of getting yeast out of the beer as soon as possible. It’s hard to do with anything but a conical.

I don’t know what your setup is. You’re kegging right?

I might try bagging some hops and putting them in a keg after you see visible signs of active fermentation and using fermentation to purge the keg. Figure out a way to prevent o2 ingress when soft crashing (balloon or whatever) then force transferring to the keg with the bagged hops. Being very very attentive to flushing all lines with Co2. You could either serve in that keg or transfer again if you’re really meticulous about purging everything insanely well.

 

[JohnConnor]

I honestly don’t think warming back up above 55/60 is really all that important.

Recent CB&B podcast with Dino from Vitamin Sea. Said they dry hop for 4 days at 55.

Shaun Lawson’s dry hop temp recommendations in the Sip and Double Sun recipes is 55-57.

Latest Curiosity from Treehouse speaks about cold dry hopping and conditioning.

I’ve had great success with Galaxy heavy beers as well as Mosaic heavy beers dry hopping sub 60 (usually around 58)

Got two beers going now. One will be kegged tomorrow. The other just got its second round of dry hops today. All dry hopping has been at 55-57*. They’re both tasting and smelling awesome. Both beers are very Mosaic centered and I’m getting zero of that weird Mosaic stank.

Pale ale with Mosaic and a touch of Amarillo was 36 hours at 55 before cropping yeast and adding dry hops. No rousing just leaving it. Started dropping temps after 4 days. Dumped a bunch of trub today. Will keg tomorrow AM. Been at 40-42 for around 48 hours.

Second beer is a double IPA. Spent 2 days at 55 before cropping yeast (kinda poor flocculation) and adding first round of dry hops. (3:2:1 Mosaic, Citra, Simcoe) Beer spent 2 days at 55 then I pulled more yeast and any hops that had fallen and added another dry hop of the same quantity. Will spend 2 or 3 more days at 55 before gradually cooling and transferring.

What's everyone's thoughts out rousing? I've been transferring beer and dry hopping in a keg with a floating dip tube. I've been turning the keg twice a day to keep hops in suspension. Jury is still out on whether or not it's worth doing. Is it more important for the big boys because of scale?

 

[secretlevel]

what are peoples thoughts on this?
Citra-Galaxy NEIPA: Bioconversion | The Mad Fermentationist - Homebrewing Blog

I have a friend who brews hazies pretty much religiously, but always uses expensive hops. He literally does a 200g addition spread out over the hopstand time to get a layering of hops and then dryhops a shitload more on day 1 day 3 and day 10.

but I wondered if i could emulate beers like his (they're very well made). but using cheaper alternatives such as nugget etc. plus here in NZ, we can get super cheap hops like moutere and rakau, which still have good aroma qualities for more than half the price of hops like citra etc.

Keen to try out mike's way of doing things, particularly if the decision is made to go pro at any point.

Bio-conversion would still be keen and using the citras mosaics, galaxies sauvins etc may be key.

the last question i had was the 15min addition is 1oz, whichseems high, would this be ok? i've always used lower bittering and more aroma hops in these beers, but essentially coppied my friend template using my own hops, and especially when it comes to kitchen sink beers

Great experiment by The Mad Fermentationist, this sums it up well: "[Cheaper hops beer] Falls a little short of full-on NEIPA, lacking that wonderful saturated juicy hop flavor. Although the fullness of the hop character has increased while sitting on the keg hops. Pineapple, orange candy, and dank. Slightly sharp bitterness, a bit lupulin bite in the throat."

To reiterate and tie this into your question, cheap hops don't have the same Alpha Acid content, nor do they have the same total oil content as the Citras and Galaxies. However, this doesn't mean that you can't use them to make a tasty beer. As a matter of fact, I've had great luck intermixing the traditional hops with a little bit of Citra and/or Mosaic. Just be sure to use more of the traditional hop so it's not offset by the high oil content of the "banger hops".

NZ Hops: man, I've always wanted to experiment more with these. So far I've used Waimea and Motueka, which have been phenomenal. Mix in with a couple of oz of Citra with those and you're in for a great beer. Are Galaxy and Vic Secret around you expensive? Those are just across the pond in AU. I've also heard great things about Riwaka, Rakau, and Belma but have yet to try them personally.

 

[optimal_pizza]

Just kicked a keg of a hazy pale ale using S33 (Azacca, Citra, Simcoe). It cleared a little but not much from first pour. I fermented at 63, wasn't trying to get anything remotely belgian out of it. I have another packet so I might try again but under pitch it and ferment a little warmer and see what happens. Solid yeast though.