New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

tld6008

Master of Nothing
HBT Supporter
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Messages
376
Reaction score
144
Location
Pensacola
Ive been using 1318 for all of my NEIPAs so far with good results but am looking to try some new yeasts to mix it up. What is everyones favorite yeast to use other than 1318?
I started off using White Labs 095 and have liked it. A week ago I kegged my first use of 1318 which I racked into a freshly kicked keg of a Julius clone per the Trinity Collab website recipe (I have made several batches of this) and I can taste the leftover yeast mix in the new brew. Tastes pretty darn good. The 1318 has turned out to be the haziest NEIPA I have made to date.
 
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Messages
5
Reaction score
2
I started off using White Labs 095 and have liked it. A week ago I kegged my first use of 1318 which I racked into a freshly kicked keg of a Julius clone per the Trinity Collab website recipe (I have made several batches of this) and I can taste the leftover yeast mix in the new brew. Tastes pretty darn good. The 1318 has turned out to be the haziest NEIPA I have made to date.
What do you think of the Trinity Collab clone? Im interested in trying that one
 
OP
Braufessor

Braufessor

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Dec 27, 2011
Messages
4,197
Reaction score
1,854
Location
NE Iowa
Ive been using 1318 for all of my NEIPAs so far with good results but am looking to try some new yeasts to mix it up. What is everyones favorite yeast to use other than 1318?
Conan, 1272 and I like using 2565 Kolsch Yeast in my lighter session hoppy wheat that is along the lines of a NEIPA. That Kolsch yeast never drops out. Nice and bright flavors - especially for a lighter (1.04-1.05) type version of this.
 

matzou

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
56
Reaction score
13
Location
Spain
You could Try mixing 04 with 05 or even better k97 If you can get some of the fruity esters of 04 with the less flocculent strain

Planning on trying bry-97 as well.
But after using 1318 S04 S05 iam pretty sure that dry is as good as liquid just don't be afraid to mix or experiment.
 

Sbe2

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2017
Messages
812
Reaction score
369
Location
WNY
For those with experience keg hopping, is 4 oz of pellets too much? I had a pound of Enigma of which I used 12 oz already. The rest is in the “ziplock” they came in which is in the freezer.
 

KrunkMasterKyle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2017
Messages
48
Reaction score
20
For those with experience keg hopping, is 4 oz of pellets too much? I had a pound of Enigma of which I used 12 oz already. The rest is in the “ziplock” they came in which is in the freezer.
Are you keg hopping lose or in a screen or bag?

Most of my NEIPAs have 14-18oz of hops total per 5 gallon batch (boil, whirlpool, dry hop). If I was using a screen, I would divide 4 oz into two screens as the hops will absorb and expand in the screens. Better utilization dividing that amount up.
 

stickyfinger

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
2,250
Reaction score
592
Location
Hudson Valley

Sbe2

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2017
Messages
812
Reaction score
369
Location
WNY
Are you keg hopping lose or in a screen or bag?

Most of my NEIPAs have 14-18oz of hops total per 5 gallon batch (boil, whirlpool, dry hop). If I was using a screen, I would divide 4 oz into two screens as the hops will absorb and expand in the screens. Better utilization dividing that amount up.
They will be in a canister and are pellets.
 

Northern_Brewer

British - apparently some US company stole my name
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
3,482
Reaction score
2,983
Location
UK
I've done the trinity brewers dry yeast blend. It wasn't my favorite compared to just 1318

S04 -92%
T58 - 5%
WB06 - 3%

This is a great thread to go through to see what other yeast blends people are using or dry yeast in general. Others do use liquid as well - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...ouse-how-to-identify-and-characterize.623221/
Let's be clear - that mix is nothing to do with Trinity Brewers, they took it from that HBT thread, although it looks a bit light on T-58 compared to more recent iterations which are more 8-10%. All the credit should go to @isomerization for the initial DNA analysis, and various HBTers on that thread for experimental brewing to nail the proportions.

There are certainly some on that thread who do prefer the dry blend to 1318 - there's no "right" answer here.

Ive been using 1318 for all of my NEIPAs so far with good results but am looking to try some new yeasts to mix it up. What is everyones favorite yeast to use other than 1318?
Well 1318 seems to have become the new favourite - Imperial A38 Juice brews very similarly and supposedly has the same origins (although I don't really buy the Boddington thing); I've also seen it suggested that WLP775 English Cider has the same origin if you only have easy access to White Labs. See this thread for a discussion of optimising fermentation with 1318.

Conan still seems popular but commercial examples seem quite variable - WLP4000 has more character than WLP095 for instance. It's a bit notorious for needing to go through one generation before it really gets going on the peach thing, and definitely changes with different generations. Lallemand have introduced a dry version as their New England yeast for commercial brewers but seem to be struggling with viability in dry form and have yet to release it in retail packs, although some stores are unofficially breaking up commercial packs.

Saccharomyces "bruxellensis" Trois used to be classified as a Brettanomyces but is now regarded as a slightly weird Saccharomyces. It pumps out a lot of pineapple flavour - free fruit, what's not to like? Well it's a diastaticus strain so is very high attenuation which is not ideal. Although people do use it on its own, most commonly as WLP644, there seems to be a trend to sell it as three-way blends along with a Conan and something else like 1318 or WLP066. If you see a NEIPA blend advertised as imparting pineapple, then it probably contains Sacc Trois.

WLP066 London Fog seems to be a bit of a Marmite strain - some hate it, some love it. See the thread.

The more characterful kveiks like Hornindal seem an obvious choice if you want a yeast that isn't subtle in its contribution in a Sacc Trois kind of way, orange seems to be the usual flavour mentioned. But getting hold of them may not be easy - we only have one importer in the UK of the Omega range, and the kveiks sell out within about 24h of hitting the website.

Beyond that - any yeast which pumps out some esters, so pretty much anything British, fermented in a way that promotes esters without too much other junk. Brewlab has a far better selection than any of the US commercial sources. We'll never quite understand the US fascination with Ringwood though! But there's no reason why clean wine yeasts or distilling yeasts might not work - the Vault strain WLP050 Tennessee Whiskey is POF- and pumps out phenyl esters for a lovely floral nose which might not be quite right in a NEIPA but definitely has potential for other styles.

I've not tried them but the closely related S-33, Windsor and Danstar ESB seem obvious candidates for a NEIPA, not least because 1318 seems to fall in the same Mixed group as them. Also S-33/Windsor seem to be effectively a POF- version of T-58, which in my hands has shown dramatic biotransformation of hop flavours - Chinook went from grapefruit to lime and other flavours for more complexity. The only trouble with biotransformation is that you lose some hop intensity, so you need more hops for a given level of flavour. I've not tested S-33 or Windsor yet to see if they show the same effect, but it's definitely on the list of things to try.

The Treehouse blend suggests that a subtle bit of Belgian character is a good thing in NEIPAs, as long as it doesn't dominate. That points to the Yorkshire Square yeasts which are almost all POF+ members of the saison family. Again Brewlab is your best source - I've always liked the sound of F40 (allegedly from Scottish & Newcastle) which is notorious for its fruitiness and which I suspect may be a saison, but the likes of Sussex 1 ("Harvey's") and HH (Hardy & Hanson, which begat Black Sheep and Elgood's) would be worth trying. WLP037 Yorkshire Square and WLP038 Manchester have been sequenced and are known to be POF+ saisons, but are Vault strains - 037 isn't that far off enough pre-purchases but we'll be waiting a while for 038. 1469 is about the only one that's regularly available. My reading leads me to suspect that Mangrove Jack M15 Empire may be related to some of these but I've not brewed with it yet.

It may also be worth playing around with blends that incorporate a bit of POF+ yeast, whether a pinch of T-58, or wine yeast or whatever.

It's still very early days at the moment, and it's a bit of a shame that people tend to herd round certain yeasts. I think it is certain that there are better yeasts for NEIPAs than 1318 and Conan - people just haven't tried them yet.
 
Last edited:

Northern_Brewer

British - apparently some US company stole my name
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
3,482
Reaction score
2,983
Location
UK
Also worth keeping an eye out for any seasonal releases that might be worth a go - for instance Wyeast's Q3 releases include 3864 Belgian/Canadian, supposedly from Unibroue of Quebec and which is a "mildly" Belgian yeast with plenty of esters that sounds well worth a try.

WLP033 was released in May, WLP006 was due in November (although White Labs seem to be having second thoughts on their release schedule) - both would be worth a go.

Completely OT, but Wyeast also have 3789 Trappist Blend ("Orval") and 3463 Forbidden Fruit in their Q3 seasonals if anyone's interested.
 
Last edited:

Whalewang

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 17, 2008
Messages
53
Reaction score
3
Let's be clear - that mix is nothing to do with Trinity Brewers, they took it from that HBT thread, although it looks a bit light on T-58 compared to more recent iterations which are more 8-10%. All the credit should go to @isomerization for the initial DNA analysis, and various HBTers on that thread for experimental brewing to nail the proportions.
What kind of fermentation schedule are they using with safeale yeast mixure?
 

Whalewang

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 17, 2008
Messages
53
Reaction score
3
In an effort to cut down on the hop burn, I'm thinking about utilizing gelatin in the fermenter (after it's done fermenting).

Thoughts?
 

MrBlackrock

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2017
Messages
83
Reaction score
12
My version:

Mosaic/Falconers Flight/Amarillo/Centennial (Didn't have all the original hops on hand)

Turned damn nice. Color could be better.
 

Attachments

tld6008

Master of Nothing
HBT Supporter
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Messages
376
Reaction score
144
Location
Pensacola
Let's be clear - that mix is nothing to do with Trinity Brewers, they took it from that HBT thread, although it looks a bit light on T-58 compared to more recent iterations which are more 8-10%. All the credit should go to @isomerization for the initial DNA analysis, and various HBTers on that thread for experimental brewing to nail the proportions.
I have read that entire thread, the Trinity brewer was an early contributor there but I can't recall ever seeing the 92,5,and 3 percentage combination discussed there. I could be wrong also.
 

JohnConnor

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2017
Messages
149
Reaction score
59
Let's be clear - that mix is nothing to do with Trinity Brewers, they took it from that HBT thread, although it looks a bit light on T-58 compared to more recent iterations which are more 8-10%. All the credit should go to @isomerization for the initial DNA analysis, and various HBTers on that thread for experimental brewing to nail the proportions.

There are certainly some on that thread who do prefer the dry blend to 1318 - there's no "right" answer here.



Well 1318 seems to have become the new favourite - Imperial A38 Juice brews very similarly and supposedly has the same origins (although I don't really buy the Boddington thing); I've also seen it suggested that WLP775 English Cider has the same origin if you only have easy access to White Labs. See this thread for a discussion of optimising fermentation with 1318.

Conan still seems popular but commercial examples seem quite variable - WLP4000 has more character than WLP095 for instance. It's a bit notorious for needing to go through one generation before it really gets going on the peach thing, and definitely changes with different generations. Lallemand have introduced a dry version as their New England yeast for commercial brewers but seem to be struggling with viability in dry form and have yet to release it in retail packs, although some stores are unofficially breaking up commercial packs.

Saccharomyces "bruxellensis" Trois used to be classified as a Brettanomyces but is now regarded as a slightly weird Saccharomyces. It pumps out a lot of pineapple flavour - free fruit, what's not to like? Well it's a diastaticus strain so is very high attenuation which is not ideal. Although people do use it on its own, most commonly as WLP644, there seems to be a trend to sell it as three-way blends along with a Conan and something else like 1318 or WLP066. If you see a NEIPA blend advertised as imparting pineapple, then it probably contains Sacc Trois.

WLP066 London Fog seems to be a bit of a Marmite strain - some hate it, some love it. See the thread.

Beyond that - any yeast which pumps out some esters, so pretty much anything British, fermented in a way that promotes esters without too much other junk. Brewlab has a far better selection than any of the US commercial sources. We'll never quite understand the US fascination with Ringwood though! But there's no reason why clean wine yeasts or distilling yeasts might not work - the Vault strain WLP050 Tennessee Whiskey is POF- and pumps out phenyl esters for a lovely floral nose which might not be quite right in a NEIPA but definitely has potential for other styles.

I've not tried them but the closely related S-33, Windsor and Danstar ESB seem obvious candidates for a NEIPA, not least because 1318 seems to fall in the same Mixed group as them. Also S-33/Windsor seem to be effectively a POF- version of T-58, which in my hands has shown dramatic biotransformation of hop flavours - Chinook went from grapefruit to lime and other flavours for more complexity. The only trouble with biotransformation is that you lose some hop intensity, so you need more hops for a given level of flavour. I've not tested S-33 or Windsor yet to see if they show the same effect, but it's definitely on the list of things to try.

The Treehouse blend suggests that a subtle bit of Belgian character is a good thing in NEIPAs, as long as it doesn't dominate. That points to the Yorkshire Square yeasts which are almost all POF+ members of the saison family. Again Brewlab is your best source - I've always liked the sound of F40 (allegedly from Scottish & Newcastle) which is notorious for its fruitiness and which I suspect may be a saison, but the likes of Sussex 1 ("Harvey's") and HH (Hardy & Hanson, which begat Black Sheep and Elgood's) would be worth trying. WLP037 Yorkshire Square and WLP038 Manchester have been sequenced and are known to be POF+ saisons, but are Vault strains - 037 isn't that far off enough pre-purchases but we'll be waiting a while for 038. 1469 is about the only one that's regularly available. My reading leads me to suspect that Mangrove Jack M15 Empire may be related to some of these but I've not brewed with it yet.

It may also be worth playing around with blends that incorporate a bit of POF+ yeast, whether a pinch of T-58, or wine yeast or whatever.

It's still very early days at the moment, and it's a bit of a shame that people tend to herd round certain yeasts. I think it is certain that there are better yeasts for NEIPAs than 1318 and Conan - people just haven't tried them yet.
This blew up my mind. Great post. I've always been interested in testing out Windsor yeast in an IPA but have been turned off with low flocc properties. Now that you've mentioned a POF- version of T-58, I'm very interested and might just take the plunge. I'm wondering if a packet of Windsor on day one, and then something that will grab it hard like S-04 on day 2. Could have a pretty bright beer afterwords? Hmm...
 

Northern_Brewer

British - apparently some US company stole my name
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
3,482
Reaction score
2,983
Location
UK
What kind of fermentation schedule are they using with safale yeast mixure?
It's one of those things, it depends on your personal taste, your equipment and so on. Some people have been fermenting significantly warmer than others, but as a starting point - pitch at 75F, start fermentation at say 65F. Some people let it free-rise into the 70'sF, others keep it locked in the mid-60s. Some people let it rise to 70F, others take it down to 60F.
 

mcfire12

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2013
Messages
110
Reaction score
10
Is there any way other then a closed transfer that anyone has been successful with doing to keep this from turning **** brown? We're all set to brew this but the color has me spooked.
 

Northern_Brewer

British - apparently some US company stole my name
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
3,482
Reaction score
2,983
Location
UK
I have read that entire thread, the Trinity brewer was an early contributor there but I can't recall ever seeing the 92,5,and 3 percentage combination discussed there. I could be wrong also.
It's just a question of credit - the major insight was isomerization identifying the strains. People's first guess was 50:25:25 and pretty a group of 3-4 people narrowed it down by brewing to "S-04 with a big pinch of T-58 and a small pinch of WB-06". That's an insight too, but less than the original insight. But then it's not terribly material if you interpret it as 93/5/2 (which was certainly one of the early blends) or 92/5/3 whatever, it's just quibbling within the natural variation of eg viability between different packs of yeast. So that's what I mean in terms of giving credit to the idea of the blend - it was a group effort, but if you're going to credit one single person, it should be isomerization.
 

Northern_Brewer

British - apparently some US company stole my name
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
3,482
Reaction score
2,983
Location
UK
This blew up my mind. Great post. I've always been interested in testing out Windsor yeast in an IPA but have been turned off with low flocc properties. Now that you've mentioned a POF- version of T-58, I'm very interested and might just take the plunge. I'm wondering if a packet of Windsor on day one, and then something that will grab it hard like S-04 on day 2. Could have a pretty bright beer afterwords? Hmm...
Most traditional British breweries use or used to use a multistrain, which was typically a high attenuator and a good floccer that were effectively pitched together. So I wouldn't try to complicate things too much in terms of timing. But I'd suggest it would be desirable to have a pinch of something POF+ in the mix somewhere.
 

ca_baracus

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2017
Messages
109
Reaction score
25
Is there any way other then a closed transfer that anyone has been successful with doing to keep this from turning poopy brown? We're all set to brew this but the color has me spooked.
I did not do a closed transfer when I brewed my NEIPA, and the color never turned brown (my profile pic is my NEIPA). I had to take posts, poppets, and dip tubes apart several times due to clogging (terrible transfer from fermenter to keg on my part), too. My process was: filling up keg all the way up with Star San solution, hooking it up to the gas, and pushing it through the tap. I then released the pressure, opened the keg lid, and racked from fermenter. Purged with gas once I was done.
 

JohnConnor

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2017
Messages
149
Reaction score
59
Most traditional British breweries use or used to use a multistrain, which was typically a high attenuator and a good floccer that were effectively pitched together. So I wouldn't try to complicate things too much in terms of timing. But I'd suggest it would be desirable to have a pinch of something POF+ in the mix somewhere.
I was reading a post about Green Flash Le Freak. The brewer said they pitch their Belgian yeast first to allow esters/phenols to form, then pitch their house yeast a day later. I was thinking something along those lines.
 

1bottlerocket

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2016
Messages
206
Reaction score
62
Location
Basel, Switzerland
Hi All,
I am sorry if this is not the correct thread or forum for this post. please move as needed. I have two posts in the Extract Brewing forum but have not received any replies in about a week.

I am planning on trying to brew an extract version of an NEIPA as posted by another member.

Here is the recipe and procedure. I would appreciate some feedback or corrections to the ingredients, procedure or schedule

Here are my mash and grains:
4lbs DME Pilsen (Brewferm extralight)
3lbs DME Weizen (Brewferm Wheat)
0.5 glucose (late addition)

Steeping grains:
1lb Marris Otter
0.5 lb melanoiden
1lb Flaked Wheat
0.5lb Flaked oats (Precook oats using extra water)
Add all to steeping bag

(I am following a somewhat modified procedure outlined by Yooper:)
Steep the grains in 1.75 gallons of water and hold at 45 minutes to 60 minutes at 150-154.

Lift up the bag of grains, pour about 2 gallons of water over the grain bag, to get to boil volume. (I was thinking of heating the water to 150-160)

Add your FWH (Not sure of FWH?)
Add the three pound of Weizen DME
Bring to a boil, (60 min boil)
0.5 oz warrior hops for bittering

Add the 4lb Pilsen DME (Extra light DME) and 0.5 lb Gluscose at flame out and stir well.
That should get you near whirlpool temperature, (150-160°F)
proceed with the whirlpool hops
2 oz Citra
2 oz Mosaic
2 oz Galaxy
Whirlpool for 20 minutes stirring every 5 minutes to keep the hops in suspension

Then top off to the 5 gallons at that point.
Chill to 70°F
Oxygenate wort
Pitch Vermont Pale ale yeast

Day 3 Dry hop
2 oz Citra
2 oz Mosaic
2 oz Galaxy

Day 7 Dry Hop
2 oz Citra
2 oz Mosaic
2 oz Galaxy

Target OG: 1.069
Target FG 1.017
 
Last edited:

McTwidget

Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2015
Messages
12
Reaction score
2
Hi All,

Steeping grains:
1lb Marris Otter
0.5 lb melanoiden
1lb Flaked Wheat
0.5lb Flaked oats (Precook oats using extra water)
Add all to steeping bag

(I am following a somewhat modified procedure outlined by Yooper:)
Steep the grains in 1.75 gallons of water and hold at 45 minutes to 60 minutes at 150-154.
With your steeping grain bill you have to watch the diastatic power (DP) to get conversion of the flaked grains and melanoiden, otherwise you'll end up with a low efficiency for that portion. By my math you have about 18, when you need a minimum of 30, and are better off even higher. Solutions would bet switching out the Maris Otter for American Two-Row, or switching a portion of your DME to grain (a pound would get you closer). Or of course you could just add more DME to get your target OG, but I'm not sure how the low DP might affect the proteins and goodies from the flaked portions which give a NEIPA its body.

I was getting low efficiencies on some of my beers lately (all grain) and when looking closer at the trend it was when the DP was down between 30 and 50 for the mash.
 

1bottlerocket

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2016
Messages
206
Reaction score
62
Location
Basel, Switzerland
With your steeping grain bill you have to watch the diastatic power (DP) to get conversion of the flaked grains and melanoiden, otherwise you'll end up with a low efficiency for that portion. By my math you have about 18, when you need a minimum of 30, and are better off even higher. Solutions would bet switching out the Maris Otter for American Two-Row, or switching a portion of your DME to grain (a pound would get you closer). Or of course you could just add more DME to get your target OG, but I'm not sure how the low DP might affect the proteins and goodies from the flaked portions which give a NEIPA its body.

I was getting low efficiencies on some of my beers lately (all grain) and when looking closer at the trend it was when the DP was down between 30 and 50 for the mash.
Thanks for the information.

I noticed on the math that I was low too. I went ahead and doubled the Marris Otter in my steep. I am going to take a gravity reading before topping it off and adding it to the fermentation bucket to see where it is. I am on a tight schedule today and went ahead and made it today before waiting for a reply. After doing more reading in this thread, Braufessor indicated that closer to 1.060 might be a better starting point.

My children are on holiday next week so I wanted to get it going today, as I will probably not have another chance to do this for a few weeks.

I'll keep you posted on how it turns out.
 

tld6008

Master of Nothing
HBT Supporter
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Messages
376
Reaction score
144
Location
Pensacola
Thanks for the information.

I noticed on the math that I was low too. I went ahead and doubled the Marris Otter in my steep. I am going to take a gravity reading before topping it off and adding it to the fermentation bucket to see where it is. I am on a tight schedule today and went ahead and made it today before waiting for a reply. After doing more reading in this thread, Braufessor indicated that closer to 1.060 might be a better starting point.

My children are on holiday next week so I wanted to get it going today, as I will probably not have another chance to do this for a few weeks.

I'll keep you posted on how it turns out.
FWH= first wort hops, they go in as water is heating up to boil
Many us only make one dry hop addition, added during reduced but active fermentation. Not an extract brewer so I can't comment on that process. I do know that kegging these beers is the way to go, bottling will more than likely oxidize rapidly.
 

1bottlerocket

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2016
Messages
206
Reaction score
62
Location
Basel, Switzerland
Thanks for the reply. I had no idea, as I am so new to brewing.

I was reading about the kegging vs. Bottling. I don't have that sort of set up yet so bottles it is for me. I am splitting the batch three ways so hopefully it will drink fresh.

It has been a real learning curve and I feel like I am still driving with limited vision. The Palmer book and this forum have been a big help.

It will be interesting to see how it turns out. The hop aroma in my kitchen was incredible!
 

GnenieGone

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
13,403
Reaction score
23,201
Thanks for the reply. I had no idea, as I am so new to brewing.

I was reading about the kegging vs. Bottling. I don't have that sort of set up yet so bottles it is for me. I am splitting the batch three ways so hopefully it will drink fresh.

It has been a real learning curve and I feel like I am still driving with limited vision. The Palmer book and this forum have been a big help.

It will be interesting to see how it turns out. The hop aroma in my kitchen was incredible!
I can chime in about bottling. Pre-NEIPA days, I'd brew IPAs as "normal" in buckets, dry hop in buckets. Have them open to air during transfers. Some of the best beers I've made. I'd use Safale-05 for 2 weeks, cold crash, transfer and dry hop for another 10days, transfer to a bottling bucket and bottle.

But all that went to **** trying the same technique with NEIPAs which requires limited air exposure. Ergo dry hopping during fermentation and closed loop transfers.

In a nutshell, if you end up with diacetyl/butter flavors don't be surprised nor discouraged. We've all gone through it and just have to work through it. I've only done 1 successful NEIPA myself, sent it out and was enjoyed by other members. Some even said one of the best HB NEIPAs they've ever had. So it can be done.

Best wishes and happy brewing.
 

1bottlerocket

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2016
Messages
206
Reaction score
62
Location
Basel, Switzerland
Hi All,

I brewed on Friday (above recipe) and pitched one tube of Liquid Vermont ale yeast at 72°F. As of Sunday there are no visible signs of fermentation. I was wondering if I should pitch another tube of the same yeast or if I could use some S-04 dry I have right now.

The OG was 1.070 when I pitched. Can I get a recommendation?
Thanks!
 

milldoggy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
2,895
Reaction score
283
Location
Collegeville
Also worth keeping an eye out for any seasonal releases that might be worth a go - for instance Wyeast's Q3 releases include 3864 Belgian/Canadian, supposedly from Unibroue of Quebec and which is a "mildly" Belgian yeast with plenty of esters that sounds well worth a try.

WLP033 was released in May, WLP006 was due in November (although White Labs seem to be having second thoughts on their release schedule) - both would be worth a go.

Completely OT, but Wyeast also have 3789 Trappist Blend ("Orval") and 3463 Forbidden Fruit in their Q3 seasonals if anyone's interested.
3864 was my favorite yeast 7 years ago when it was out. Need to go get some again!
 

divrack

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2016
Messages
566
Reaction score
375
Let's be clear - that mix is nothing to do with Trinity Brewers, they took it from that HBT thread, although it looks a bit light on T-58 compared to more recent iterations which are more 8-10%. All the credit should go to @isomerization for the initial DNA analysis, and various HBTers on that thread for experimental brewing to nail the proportions.

There are certainly some on that thread who do prefer the dry blend to 1318 - there's no "right" answer here.



Well 1318 seems to have become the new favourite - Imperial A38 Juice brews very similarly and supposedly has the same origins (although I don't really buy the Boddington thing); I've also seen it suggested that WLP775 English Cider has the same origin if you only have easy access to White Labs. See this thread for a discussion of optimising fermentation with 1318.

Conan still seems popular but commercial examples seem quite variable - WLP4000 has more character than WLP095 for instance. It's a bit notorious for needing to go through one generation before it really gets going on the peach thing, and definitely changes with different generations. Lallemand have introduced a dry version as their New England yeast for commercial brewers but seem to be struggling with viability in dry form and have yet to release it in retail packs, although some stores are unofficially breaking up commercial packs.

Saccharomyces "bruxellensis" Trois used to be classified as a Brettanomyces but is now regarded as a slightly weird Saccharomyces. It pumps out a lot of pineapple flavour - free fruit, what's not to like? Well it's a diastaticus strain so is very high attenuation which is not ideal. Although people do use it on its own, most commonly as WLP644, there seems to be a trend to sell it as three-way blends along with a Conan and something else like 1318 or WLP066. If you see a NEIPA blend advertised as imparting pineapple, then it probably contains Sacc Trois.

WLP066 London Fog seems to be a bit of a Marmite strain - some hate it, some love it. See the thread.

The more characterful kveiks like Hornindal seem an obvious choice if you want a yeast that isn't subtle in its contribution in a Sacc Trois kind of way, orange seems to be the usual flavour mentioned. But getting hold of them may not be easy - we only have one importer in the UK of the Omega range, and the kveiks sell out within about 24h of hitting the website.

Beyond that - any yeast which pumps out some esters, so pretty much anything British, fermented in a way that promotes esters without too much other junk. Brewlab has a far better selection than any of the US commercial sources. We'll never quite understand the US fascination with Ringwood though! But there's no reason why clean wine yeasts or distilling yeasts might not work - the Vault strain WLP050 Tennessee Whiskey is POF- and pumps out phenyl esters for a lovely floral nose which might not be quite right in a NEIPA but definitely has potential for other styles.

I've not tried them but the closely related S-33, Windsor and Danstar ESB seem obvious candidates for a NEIPA, not least because 1318 seems to fall in the same Mixed group as them. Also S-33/Windsor seem to be effectively a POF- version of T-58, which in my hands has shown dramatic biotransformation of hop flavours - Chinook went from grapefruit to lime and other flavours for more complexity. The only trouble with biotransformation is that you lose some hop intensity, so you need more hops for a given level of flavour. I've not tested S-33 or Windsor yet to see if they show the same effect, but it's definitely on the list of things to try.

The Treehouse blend suggests that a subtle bit of Belgian character is a good thing in NEIPAs, as long as it doesn't dominate. That points to the Yorkshire Square yeasts which are almost all POF+ members of the saison family. Again Brewlab is your best source - I've always liked the sound of F40 (allegedly from Scottish & Newcastle) which is notorious for its fruitiness and which I suspect may be a saison, but the likes of Sussex 1 ("Harvey's") and HH (Hardy & Hanson, which begat Black Sheep and Elgood's) would be worth trying. WLP037 Yorkshire Square and WLP038 Manchester have been sequenced and are known to be POF+ saisons, but are Vault strains - 037 isn't that far off enough pre-purchases but we'll be waiting a while for 038. 1469 is about the only one that's regularly available. My reading leads me to suspect that Mangrove Jack M15 Empire may be related to some of these but I've not brewed with it yet.

It may also be worth playing around with blends that incorporate a bit of POF+ yeast, whether a pinch of T-58, or wine yeast or whatever.

It's still very early days at the moment, and it's a bit of a shame that people tend to herd round certain yeasts. I think it is certain that there are better yeasts for NEIPAs than 1318 and Conan - people just haven't tried them yet.
Boom.
For what it's worth just made a pretty killer beer with London fog. My swine phone didn't save the recipe, but it was basically similar to the latest brau recipe but somewhat less flaked stuff, and possibly a dash of melanoidin in replacement of honeymalt.. Anyway the point being that it is much more plain tasting but really highlights the smooth "white" malt backbone for the more citric hops, citra, centennial, Amarillo, than specifically tropical, although there is still a bit of Mango there..
I'd say for the really tropical versions of the style with eukanot etc, and maybe a bit more caramel, such as gno, it's better to go down the juicyer road with Conan etc, possibly some Belgian in there.

This, perhaps because I've been incepted by the idea, does really suit the name London fog... Kind of pillowy, cool neutral pallet on top of which sit the hops, distinctly like... Was just about to get all poetic there.
Suffice to say good beer, good yeast. Not similar really to Conan though or juice. Nothing like sacc trios all of which are great, but in my opinion for a different version of the same process beer.

I haven't been stateside so I can't comment on treehouse, trillium etc.
 

tld6008

Master of Nothing
HBT Supporter
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Messages
376
Reaction score
144
Location
Pensacola
Hi All,

I brewed on Friday (above recipe) and pitched one tube of Liquid Vermont ale yeast at 72°F. As of Sunday there are no visible signs of fermentation. I was wondering if I should pitch another tube of the same yeast or if I could use some S-04 dry I have right now.

The OG was 1.070 when I pitched. Can I get a recommendation?
Thanks!
I personally would not pitch a liquid yeast unless you can be certain it is active, i.e make a starter or verify through a Wyeast Smack Pack. Not knowing the age of your yeast or what it may have been subject to I would suggest the quickest solution would be using the SO4 after rehydrating in a little sweetened water to confirm viability. If your gear is clean and sanitized the wort should be ok for a couple of days but not getting it fermenting is risky.
 

Kosova

Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2017
Messages
16
Reaction score
0
Is there any way other then a closed transfer that anyone has been successful with doing to keep this from turning poopy brown? We're all set to brew this but the color has me spooked.
I bottle my neipas and usually they hold their color for at least a months. Although I had one turning brown on me, last one kept his color for 2 months aroma mostly faded as expected. Fermented in plastic bucket, second dry hop was after fermentation finished. After hops settled (can't cold crash), bottled from the fermenter's spigot and used o2 absorbing bottle caps for the first time. I'm not sure if caps helped or not but beer barely darkened.
 
Top