Noob: force carbonate without keg?

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jamdis

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Okay, I'm a real brewing noob. Here's my question:

I'm interested in force carbonating my beer, but I want to avoid Kegs.

Because of a non-beer related project I'm about to come into possession of a CO2 tank, regulator, lines, and carbonator cap. Basically, the set-up described here: http://www.jeffreymorgenthaler.com/2014/how-to-build-your-own-carbonation-rig/

As long as I have all this stuff, I'd like to be able force carbonate my beer and store in ordinary 12 oz crown cap bottles in order to save time (and sediment) vs the bottle conditioning I currently do. I've read the "no stinking beer gun" thread and I like the concept, but I just don't have the fridge room for a corny keg, and don't want to spend the money to get one.

Here's what I'd like to do, except I'm pretty sure it's a bad idea:

-siphon finished, flat beer into several 2L soda bottles
-Carbonate with carbonation rig using same method from the above link used to carbonate soda water, etc.
-simply pour into ordinary beer bottles, cap and be done.

I guess this is a bad idea because of carbonation lost when pouring between bottles, and because the beer bottle hasn't been purged of oxygen, which will cause early spoilage. (right?)

However: Couldn't I simply compensate for the lost carbonation by over-doing the carbonation in the first place? Would the oxygen issue be any worse than with bottle conditioned beer?
 
More work than just bottling. Thumbs down.
Really? I mean I'm pretty sure it's a bad idea, but I hadn't imagined it as particularly labor intensive. To my (inexperienced) thinking, this doesn't sound harder than force carbonating in a keg and then bottling as described in the "no stinking beer gun" thread. Can you elaborate a little?
 
Congrats on being an experimenter!
I'll be doing exact thing when I have all the parts. Note that I do not advise anyone to work with pressurized systems unless they are properly trained. Be damn careful when working with pressure.
If your beer and bottle is cold, you should lose about as much gas as if you were pouring a beer into a glass. There is undoubtedly an optimum temp, but I don't know what it is. Experiment. Remember that as you draw beer out of the keg, the inside pressure drops due to the larger volume. You may have to work fast, or add CO2 to up the pressure.
 
Opening pressurized 2 liters and dumping them into bottles will be every bit as time consuming and frustrating as bottling from a bucket.

Loss of carbonation, spillage, etc.

Buy 1 corny and bottle from that.
 
I'll agree that it sounds like more work than bottle conditioning, but there are plenty of things that people do in homebrewing that sound like a hassle to me and clearly work well for others.

The beer takes time to absorb co2 when force carbing, so you'll need to give it enough time in the 2L bottles. I keep my kegs under pressure in the keezer for a week before i consider them carbed.

You probably don't have to worry much about oxidation in the bottle because when you fill the bottle and cap it, you'll likely have foam (a mixture of co2 and beer) filling the headspace. Oxidation while pouring may be a slight concern, but it doesn't seem like it should be too bad to me.

Have you considered getting a corny keg for carbonating at room temperature, using the "no stinking beer gun" method for filling the bottles, then chilling to serving temp? The pressure would need to be much higher than if it were in a refrigerator (consult a carbonation chart) but it seems to me that it should work.
 
Be damn careful when working with pressure.

Yeah. This does make me a little nervous. I know that high pressure gas can be dangerous. However, with all the tutorials on home carbonation and kegging all over the web, you're the first person I've seen suggest that special training is required. Am I a potential darwin award contender for thinking I can do this after internet research? Is there some kind of training I should be seeking out?
 
Yeah. This does make me a little nervous. I know that high pressure gas can be dangerous. However, with all the tutorials on home carbonation and kegging all over the web, you're the first person I've seen suggest that special training is required. Am I a potential darwin award contender for thinking I can do this after internet research? Is there some kind of training I should be seeking out?

Respectfully, the reason you don't hear a ton about safety is because 99.8% of the people force carbing don't try to re-invent the wheel.

You can force a corny to 150 PSI and probably nothing will happen.
 
The beer takes time to absorb co2 when force carbing, so you'll need to give it enough time in the 2L bottles. .

When you say "under pressure" do you mean that I should leave the 2 liters connected to the tank for this entire time? Or do you mean leave the carbonator cap on the 2 liter after pressurization and just put the bottle in the fridge?

In any case it is starting to sound like it would be worth it to just get a corny keg. If I'm only using the thing for filling bottles via "no stinking beer gun" method, it would only need to live in the fridge for a week or so while a batch is being carbed. Maybe I can talk my housemates into tolerating that if I clean the fridge while I'm at it...

If I do that, are there any problems that might arise from bottling the entire keg? It sounds like most people who use this method are only bottling a little.
 
Respectfully, the reason you don't hear a ton about safety is because 99.8% of the people force carbing don't try to re-invent the wheel.

You can force a corny to 150 PSI and probably nothing will happen.

Yeah, that's fair enough! However what I'm proposing is exactly the same setup as the soda water systems that are all over the web with no fatalities that I'm aware of. The only difference would be that I'm putting beer in it. If I wind up with any major injuries, I promise to post again and offer myself as a cautionary tale.
 
When you say "under pressure" do you mean that I should leave the 2 liters connected to the tank for this entire time? Or do you mean leave the carbonator cap on the 2 liter after pressurization and just put the bottle in the fridge?
Well, for me it's certainly easier to keep it connected to the tank the whole time. If you don't, you'll probably want to reconnect it every day or so to be sure. As the beer absorbs the co2 and everything cools, the pressure will drop.

In any case it is starting to sound like it would be worth it to just get a corny keg. If I'm only using the thing for filling bottles via "no stinking beer gun" method, it would only need to live in the fridge for a week or so while a batch is being carbed. Maybe I can talk my housemates into tolerating that if I clean the fridge while I'm at it...
Like I said, you don't necessarily need to have it in the fridge while force carbing. Most people do it that way because they will be serving from the same keg, but you can force carb at room temperature.

If I do that, are there any problems that might arise from bottling the entire keg? It sounds like most people who use this method are only bottling a little.

Nothing I can think of. Most people only bottle a little to take somewhere and leave the rest in the keg for serving.

If you happen to be located near me I'd let you borrow a corny keg to try it all out if you want.
 
Yeah, that's fair enough! However what I'm proposing is exactly the same setup as the soda water systems that are all over the web with no fatalities that I'm aware of. The only difference would be that I'm putting beer in it. If I wind up with any major injuries, I promise to post again and offer myself as a cautionary tale.

Lol! Well put. :mug:

That said....my co-worker drinks mountain dew constantly. She went to the soda stream set up. I have shown her how buying 5 gallons of the syrup (the REAL mt Dew syrup) and a corny keg would save her a LOT of $$$.

I guess my point is, in the end, the Corny keg set up is brilliantly simple and safe. It is damned near impossible to beat.
 
Unfortunately, when you pour carbonated beer from the 2L bottle into the 12oz glass bottles, you're going to get a significant amount of foam. There's no way to avoid that.

The whole principle behind the beer gun and the "we no need no........" is that the pressure building up in the bottle while it's being filled keeps the CO2 from wanting to come out of solution. If you really want to force carb and fill bottles with ready beer, and do it right, just get the corny and put together the "we no need" filler. That's about as simple and inexpensive as it gets.
 
A 5 gallon batch will fill ten 2 liter bottles. I'm assuming you're planning on shaking the 2 liter bottle to force carb it quickly? If you immediately remove the cap, it's going to foam all over the place. You could fill your 2 liter bottles and get ten carbonator caps, which will cost you more than two corny kegs. You might be able to take the carbonator cap off and replace with a regular cap after a few hours. With minimal headspace and quick work, you should be able to keep oxygenation at a minimum, assuming these beers aren't for long term storage. But I don't think you'll be able to fill 12 oz bottles without too much foaming.

What I think you could try is filling the 2 liter bottles and storing the beer uncarbonated. When you want to drink the beer, you can put the carbonator cap on a bottle and carb it. I think you'll have to wait a few hours after shaking the bottle to open it. You could then top off the CO2 if you don't finish the entire bottle in one sitting. You might be able to make it workable with 2 carbonator caps. An open but re-pressurized 2 liter bottle should last at least a few days, if not a week without major deterioration.

I agree with the others, I'd get a single corny and use the no stinking beer gun method to fill bottles.
 
A 5 gallon batch will fill ten 2 liter bottles. I'm assuming you're planning on shaking the 2 liter bottle to force carb it quickly? If you immediately remove the cap, it's going to foam all over the place. You could fill your 2 liter bottles and get ten carbonator caps, which will cost you more than two corny kegs. You might be able to take the carbonator cap off and replace with a regular cap after a few hours. With minimal headspace and quick work, you should be able to keep oxygenation at a minimum, assuming these beers aren't for long term storage. But I don't think you'll be able to fill 12 oz bottles without too much foaming.

What I think you could try is filling the 2 liter bottles and storing the beer uncarbonated. When you want to drink the beer, you can put the carbonator cap on a bottle and carb it. I think you'll have to wait a few hours after shaking the bottle to open it. You could then top off the CO2 if you don't finish the entire bottle in one sitting. You might be able to make it workable with 2 carbonator caps. An open but re-pressurized 2 liter bottle should last at least a few days, if not a week without major deterioration.

I agree with the others, I'd get a single corny and use the no stinking beer gun method to fill bottles.

OH MAN!!! lol.

Great post, Your restraint is AWESOME.

As satph was too nice to say, but effectively demonstrated.........:

Your method is creative, the same way as it is "creative" to make a PB&J using not your hands and a butter knife, but 2 staple guns and a pair of scissors. ;)
 
you could invest in a 3gal corny key if your only concern is fridge space. gotta imagine it takes up way less space than a bunch of 2 liters.

you could also try connecting a picnic tap to a gas QR and try to fill each bottle using the beer gun method from a carbonated 2liter - may have to hit it with some extra gas during the process as the 2 liter level gets low
 
Well, I was pretty sure this was a bad idea. Running it by the brain trust here, it sounds like I was right.

Since I already have the requisite materials to try out my crazy idea I might give it a shot on a few bottles my next batch so I can compare the results to bottle conditioning. If I do, I'll be sure and let you all know how it goes.
 
Corny kegs are getting $$$ and harder to score but it is the best system, for at the very least …serving your hard made brew.:mug:
These short crude videos show how to Carbonate your keg in 10 minutes….Done!

edit: trying to get iPhone vid's up… stand by
 
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