No-Sparge mashing

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korndog

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I am thinking about trying a no-sparge mash next time out. Is there any down side other than it being extravagant? I was thinking of plugging in 50% efficiency into Promash to adjust the grain bill. Does that sound reasonable? Proceduraly, I have read that some people dump all of the water into the MT. I have read that others use a thick 1-1.5qt./Lb. mash for better mash chemistry, and add water at conversion prior to Vorlauf and draining. Any no-spargers out there? thanks

KD
 

EdWort

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I batch sparge. If you have big enough of a cooler, you only add one addition of water and it goes pretty quick. I get 80%+ efficiency this way.

Either way, be sure you stir a lot.
 

Iordz

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If you get 50% efficiency, there will be about 30% sugar remaining in the mash. Why waste? Do a simple batch sparge to at least get some more sugar out of the grains.
 
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korndog

korndog

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Iordz said:
If you get 50% efficiency, there will be about 30% sugar remaining in the mash. Why waste? Do a simple batch sparge to at least get some more sugar out of the grains.

I understand the logic of the batch sparge, and I am not arguing the increased efficiency and economy. I was thinking about using two vessels with a pump, just for kicks. I might try a CRDFM next time with the same setup. Just experimenting. I am also intrigued by the assertion that the quality of beer is actually increased, or should I say risk is reduced, if there is no sparge.
 

david_42

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I've done many partial mashes without sparging, typically 3-5 pounds of grain and 2.5-3 gallons of water. If you leave the bed alone during the mash time and stir well before draining, the efficiency doesn't suffer all that much. Haven't tried it for a full mash.
 
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I've never done it, but I've read about the method, and there's nothing wrong with giving it a shot. I'd be tempted to let the mash run off IAW the no-sparge method, then, while boiling the no-sparge batch, run a batch sparge and collect wort for a second batch of "small beer."
 

Kevin Dean

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I read about no-sparging in the last batch of brewy your own and I'm intrigued. Let me know what happens, or I'll post something here when I finally get around to brewing my next AG batch (I'm looking at 3 weeks!).
 
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korndog

korndog

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Yuri_Rage said:
I've never done it, but I've read about the method, and there's nothing wrong with giving it a shot. I'd be tempted to let the mash run off IAW the no-sparge method, then, while boiling the no-sparge batch, run a batch sparge and collect wort for a second batch of "small beer."

I was thinking about that. I wonder if anyone has tried making a much smaller second batch this way to get a similar pre-boil gravity for profile comparison (prove or disprove the quality theory) with the first running beer.
 

Chad

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korndog said:
I was thinking about that. I wonder if anyone has tried making a much smaller second batch this way to get a similar pre-boil gravity for profile comparison (prove or disprove the quality theory) with the first running beer.

Yup, I did it on my last batch(es). I did basically a no-sparge mash for the first running for use in a big beer and then sparged for a second smaller beer. Read all about it here: Tonight I'm Gonna Parti (gyle) Like it's 1699.

Chad
 
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korndog

korndog

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I'm getting ready to give this a try calculating 55% efficiency. I will start with a 20 Lbs. grain bill, and use 11 Gallons of water. I'll mash in with 6 gallons until conversion and mash out with an additional 5 gallons of hot liquor to collect 7.5 gallons of wort. I have two questions if you guys wouldn't mind:

1. What should the mash SG be prior to the 5 gallon infusion in order to reach a pre-boil SG of 1.055 for a E.O.B. SG of 1.071?

2. Should I raise the mash temp to 168F for the mash-out for this type of brewing? I have seen that some just drain all the water at once at mash temp.

Many thanks
KD

Edit: Oops, I just found a way to figure out #1 in Pro-Mash. Sorry about that.
 

Warped04

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John Palmer just wrote an article about lautering efficiency in December's BYO. While he doesn't write volumes on no sparging methods, he does say you get 75% extraction. That wouldn't be 50% effiency would it? I don't want your numbers to be totally whacked.
 
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korndog

korndog

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Warped04 said:
John Palmer just wrote an article about lautering efficiency in December's BYO. While he doesn't write volumes on no sparging methods, he does say you get 75% extraction. That wouldn't be 50% effiency would it? I don't want your numbers to be totally whacked.

Thanks for the input. I just checked palmer's book and he uses 80%, 75%, and 65% for Fly, Batch, and No-Sparge Lautering as a base. I have seen numbers as low as 50% in other articles, so I am using 55% as a guess with a little margin of safety, considering I am using some adjuncts that have lower max yields. I'm hoping this will be pretty close.
 

shafferpilot

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It all makes sense to me. With no sparging and no mash out, there's no way any tannin extraction could happen. I'm betting your efficiency will be a little better than your guess, but we'll know hard numbers soon enough.
 
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korndog

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So far so bad...lol :)

Comedy of errors. Missed my strike by 15F, then missed my target OG, getting a paltry 39% Eff. Maybe should have mashed longer. Not sure. Built it up with DME; bummer. Boiling now. I think I'll crack open a BSDA and drown my sorrows. 20 Lbs. of grain, and I couldn't get it right. LMAO.

KD

Edit: Cracked open a 2007 Yulesmith instead of the Belgian. Anybody got a recipe for this stuff? It's really good. Sorry about the off topic edit.

Edit 2: Pitched yeast; all good, but SG cam out at 1.090 post boil. Whatever> :( Rough day
 

WBC

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Missed my strike by 15F, then missed my target OG, getting a paltry 39% Eff. Maybe should have mashed longer. Not sure.

Its a matter of thermal mass. If you used a program to figure the strike temp then you should hit the mash temp dead on. The program should include input such as grain temp, pounds of grain and mashtun temp and thermal mass information (temp losses from your mashtun soaking up heat from the strike water). If any of this information is unknown to the program you will miss your mash temp.
 
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korndog

korndog

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WBC said:
Its a matter of thermal mass. If you used a program to figure the strike temp then you should hit the mash temp dead on. The program should include input such as grain temp, pounds of grain and mashtun temp and thermal mass information (temp losses from your mashtun soaking up heat from the strike water). If any of this information is unknown to the program you will miss your mash temp.

Thanks. I didn't plug any thermal mass number in. I preheated the cooler with boiling water and used Pro-Mash for the strike. Hit it dead on last time. I'm a little suspicious of the thermometer I used to take grain temperature. It read 60F, but my garage is quite a bit cooler than that. Still, it's hard to believe I missed by that much.
I just redid the strike calc. with a 0.3 TM and got 177 instead of 170. I guess I should do the thermal mass calculations for my MLT tomorrow, once and for all.

Thanks again.
 

Warped04

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korndog said:
Sorry about the off topic edit.

It's your thread...You can be as off topic as you want ;).


korndog said:
Comedy of errors. Missed my strike by 15F, then missed my target OG, getting a paltry 39% Eff. Maybe should have mashed longer. Not sure. Built it up with DME; bummer. Boiling now.

Bummer dude. Are you going to try again another time?
 
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korndog

korndog

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Warped04 said:
It's your thread...You can be as off topic as you want ;).


Bummer dude. Are you going to try again another time?

Yes, I will, and I am going to be more patient. I think I just blew the mash due to inexperience. Although, I must admit that it seemed wasteful to see all that sugary grain go down the drain. The wort tastes great btw. I still have high hopes for the finished product.

KD
 

shafferpilot

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Hang in there. The only experiment that is a true failure is the one that get's thrown out before it's done. This is the first no-sparge that you've done. Remember your first AG session????? I remember mine, and I'd be appalled if I repeated that mess! Next one will be spot on. I'm betting this concept will catch on, and everyone will try it at least once:) Keep us posted.
 
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korndog

korndog

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This beer is popping away pretty good right now. I really panicked and dumped some DME into the BK when I figured I was way off on my gravity. Anyway, so once I got it into the fermenter, I was getting about 1.090 reading, when I was shooting for 1.072 (maybe I wasn't so far off after all). The current SG after 36 hours is 1.060. The wort tastes much sweeter than anything I have tasted at this stage (but delicious). Should I worry? Do you think I will have to repitch at some point? I'm using Wyeast 1272 at 65F.

Thanks.
 
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korndog

korndog

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No-Sparge batch #2; Much better results today. I plugged in 55% efficiency and hit 60% pre-boil. Lake Walk Ale is boiling away now. Will report after pitch.

Update: Ok, hit everything right on. Post boil qtys. and OG were right on the money. Exciting stuff for me. This was my first AG batch that went according to Promash numbers without much variance.
 

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