No mash out - low efficiency

[Nigel]

I did my third all grain brew yesterday (AHS Tripel IPA) and ended up with a disappointingly low mash efficiency (68%) and I am wondering where I might have gone wrong. My previous all grain kits have been from Northern Brewer and they suggest doing a mash out step and I have generally had a good mash efficiency when I have done this (75-80%). This recipe only had 12.5 lb grain in it so after sniffing around on these forums I got the impression that a mash out was only necessary if you had a particularly dense mash. I decided to skip the mash out and go straight on to the fly sparging this time. I am trying to figure out exactly what I did wrong. I used Beersmith to calculate all volumes (1.25 qt water to every pound of grain) and sparged slowly as I have done previously.

Is this type of lower efficiency to be expected with no mash out or have I done something wrong? Just to check that I haven't done something idiotic with my fly sparging, the sparge water is added slowly from a second cooler as the wort drains slowly at the same rate? Anyway, I seemed to have lost 8 points compared to what AHS said I should get (1.075 vs. 1.083). Any suggestions to help me not make this mistake again would be gratefully appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Grizzlybrew]

What was your mash ratio and your total sparge water ratio? Also, I'm assuming you hit the same volumes as the recipe?...

The mash-out has more to do with halting the enzymatic activity than anything. But, you also will cause the wort to become more "fluid" by raising the temps (with a mash-out) which helps sparging and can affect efficiency a little.

 

[usfmikeb]

But, you also will cause the wort to become more "fluid" by raising the temps (with a mash-out) which helps sparging and can affect efficiency a little.

This can impact efficiency more than a little, not doing a mash out temp could easily lead to a 10% decrease in efficiency.

 

[Nigel]

What was your mash ratio and your total sparge water ratio? Also, I'm assuming you hit the same volumes as the recipe...

I followed the AHS recipe but did put all of the numbers into Beersmith just to be certain. I mashed with 1.25 qt water per lb grain and sparged until I had my boil volume of 6.5 gal. I used about 4.5 to 5 gal when sparging.

 

[helibrewer]

Your enzymes are done after about 30 minutes so the real value of the mash out is viscosity...being able to get those sugars through the grain bed...In my opinion you should always do one, I use about 1.1 - 1.2 qts per gallon and 170F.

 

[Nigel]

Your enzymes are done after about 30 minutes so the real value of the mash out is viscosity...being able to get those sugars through the grain bed...In my opinion you should always do one, I use about 1.1 - 1.2 qts per gallon and 170F.

So are there any advantages of not doing a mash out other than saving 10 - 15 min?

 

[Fat_Bastard]

did you batch sparge or fly?
I have found with batch sparging that you dont need a mash out BUT getting your sparge water hot enough to get the grain bed to 168-170 helps a lot with getting a few extra points efficiency.

try not to get hung up on efficiency,consitency is more important.I would rather have 70% efficiency and know I will get that each time I brew.

 

[Nigel]

did you batch sparge or fly?
I have found with batch sparging that you dont need a mash out BUT getting your sparge water hot enough to get the grain bed to 168-170 helps a lot with getting a few extra points efficiency.

try not to get hung up on efficiency,consitency is more important.I would rather have 70% efficiency and know I will get that each time I brew.

I fly sparged. It's not so much getting hung up on the low efficiency but more getting hung up on having an OG lower than the 1.083 than the recipe said I should get.

On the plus side I am getting to use my blow off tube for only the second time plus I did get to see the airlock explode off the carboy. Awesome :rockin:

 

[Reuben1012]

plus I did get to see the airlock explode off the carboy. Awesome :rockin:

Sounds fun, I set up a blow off for the first time on a heffe. It was a little disappointing not to see all kinds of beer foaming out of the tube.

 

[Fat_Bastard]

I fly sparged. It's not so much getting hung up on the low efficiency but more getting hung up on having an OG lower than the 1.083 than the recipe said I should get.

On the plus side I am getting to use my blow off tube for only the second time plus I did get to see the airlock explode off the carboy. Awesome :rockin:

The larger the grain bill the harder it is to get good effiency.you need a lot more sparge water to get your numbers up,which in turn means more preboil volume and longer boil times to boil it down.

 

[Grizzlybrew]

From "How To Brew" by John Palmer (notice the last line):

"Before the sweet wort is drained from the mash and the grain is rinsed (sparged) of the residual sugars, many brewers perform a mashout. Mashout is the term for raising the temperature of the mash to 170°F prior to lautering. This step stops all of the enzyme action (preserving your fermentable sugar profile) and makes the grainbed and wort more fluid. For most mashes with a ratio of 1.5-2 quarts of water per pound of grain, the mashout is not needed. The grainbed will be loose enough to flow well. For a thicker mash, or a mash composed of more than 25% of wheat or oats, a mashout may be needed to prevent a Set Mash/Stuck Sparge. This is when the grain bed plugs up and no liquid will flow through it. A mashout helps prevent this by making the sugars more fluid; like the difference between warm and cold honey. The mashout step can be done using external heat or by adding hot water according to the multi-rest infusion calculations. (See chapter 16.) A lot of homebrewers tend to skip the mashout step for most mashes with no consequences."