No hose change on 3V2P- P&ID review

[ethan44]

Greetings,

Looking to go to a no hose change set up, just for the sake of it and to help out when I am brewing with other people. This may also be a trial run for a full hard plumbed system later down the track.

Could anyone with experience chime in to see if what I am proposing would work? All the valves on the pots are currently in place. I would need to purchase 4 3-way L valves, plus a couple more bits to connect it all up.

Currently cooling with a lid mounted immersion chiller.

Cheers.

 

[tinoespinosa69]

After a burn, while brewing and adding hops to BK, and moving hoses from connection points, I decided I will look to hard plumbing my brewing system too.

Actually I only have one 3way valve at the discharge of the Wort pump to divert to MT or BK. But honestly, changing hoses with hot liquid is a safety risk. So I decided I will go with fewer movements and will hard plumbing in different phases.

First phase will be the pump discharge manifold. Detailing your design, I do believe you have one 3way valve more than required. The 3 way between the Wort pump out and water pump out could be changed by a tee. The only problem will be a dead pipe space filled with hot liquid (wort). OF course, the 3way will avoid having this problem..

You can see my design on my Instagram @v.ale.master (so Sorry it is a hand drawing design) My original Idea was just like yours. All valves for the kettles are not included as they are already installed.



In my system, I will use an extra 3way to divert from the Wort pump from BK to CFCC to sterilize while boiling. And another 3 way at the discharge of the CFCC to divert to BK while cooling or to fermentor via Oxygen injector.

 

[tinoespinosa69]

You can see my actual system here

This is my "brewery" account

Enjoy

 

[ethan44]

Awesome, thanks for the response.

I agree that there is an extra 3 way valve, and the reason I put it in there was exactly what you said, to try to minimise that dead pipe space. I probably will keep it in there.

I'm planning on adding a steam condenser too, so our set ups will be very similar!

 

[tinoespinosa69]

hi @ethan44, how is your system upgrade going?

 

[ethan44]

hi @ethan44, how is your system upgrade going?

I've decided I will go this route, with the 4 3-way ball valves. Haven't ordered them yet, and unfortunately it'll take about a month for them to arrive off AliExpress. Still need to work out all the other fittings I'll need to complete it, since there will be a couple of extra hoses etc.

 

[tinoespinosa69]

Great. I already started with mine. I bought some DERNORD valves in Amazon (T Port instead of L port) for $20 each. Also found a good fitting provider here in California with really good prices (www.proflow-dynamics.com)

 

[tinoespinosa69]

Here we go @oinobrewing

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Here we go @oinobrewing

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Lots of CIP. Why the scale under the HLT?

 

[tinoespinosa69]

Lots of CIP. Why the scale under the HLT?

I will use a close circuit for the cip running the cleaning solution all around. One advantage of this 3 way valves is I bought T port instead of L port, so I can select one particular position to run all the line

Under the HLT I have an induction cooktop.
Will modify to Electric heater and will use the Induction ONLY for the BK

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

I will use a close circuit for the cip running the cleaning solution all around. One advantage of this 3 way valves is I bought T port instead of L port, so I can select one particular position to run all the line

Under the HLT I have an induction cooktop.
Will modify to Electric heater and will use the Induction ONLY for the BK

Sorry, induction cooktop. I thought it was a scale!

 

[Gruel]

I don't think I'm going this direction anytime soon (very nice systems, by the way!), but I have a question anyway: why not use copper or stainless for the plumbing, if no hoses get moved? Wouldn't that be better for sanitation, longevity etc.?

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Copper is unbelievably expensive at this time. Local HD worker told me they have to watch as people will take a copper rod (plumbing pipe) to the garden center (outside) and pass thru the fence to their co-thief.

The piping looks stainless. Isn't it?

 

[Gruel]

Yes yes yes, the metal parts all look stainless or zinc coated. I meant the plastic tubing.

In countries with electric trains, people will throw grounding hooks over the wires, wait for the power to drop, and steal the high voltage conductors. Ditto for construction sites. They used to just steal toilets and sinks, the last ten years or so they will also rip the wire out of the walls. It's worse than "The Walking Dead"!

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Yes yes yes, the metal parts all look stainless or zinc coated. I meant the plastic tubing.

In countries with electric trains, people will throw grounding hooks over the wires, wait for the power to drop, and steal the high voltage conductors. Ditto for construction sites. They used to just steal toilets and sinks, the last ten years or so they will also rip the wire out of the walls.

The tubing, at least to me, looks like high temperature food-grade silicone tubing. I use the same in my brewery.

No, don't want zinc coating anywhere near our brew. Zinc " a silvery-white metal that is a constituent of brass and is used for coating (galvanizing) iron and steel to protect against corrosion ".

Stick with stainless for the brewery!

 

[Gruel]

Right. Back to my question: why not stainless (copper is too expensive, I got that) everywhere?

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Right. Back to my question: why not stainless (copper is too expensive, I got that) everywhere?

Oh, OK, now I understand. Probably not using stainless or copper in place of the silicone as it's a b*itch to work with/bend, etc whereas silicone is very easy to work with/ see what's flowing and replace if needed.

 

[SanPancho]

a roll of 1/2 stainless tubing is like 50 bucks for 100' on ebay. get some compression fittings and you wont even need the hose. which if silicone, is horrible at keeping oxygen out of your wort. since you already have a bunch of threaded fittings, why not just go compression instead....

a standard EMT bender works just fine on 1/2" stainless tubing. add some 90" fittings for places where the radius is too large and you're done.

 

[tinoespinosa69]

He fellow brewers
The 1/2" pipe and fittings are in SS 304, and 316
Hoses are Silicon High temp and thick wall.
One factor I included in this design is to keep the possibility to disassemble it for cleaning and maintenance.
The idea to replace the hoses using SS tubing and compression fitting is really good, but as my system is always changing because of improvement designs, I prefer right now to keep the hoses. There are still some small hoses movements while cooling.
Certainly, it could be my future step. Thanks for the idea

 

[ethan44]

I don't think I'm going this direction anytime soon (very nice systems, by the way!), but I have a question anyway: why not use copper or stainless for the plumbing, if no hoses get moved? Wouldn't that be better for sanitation, longevity etc.?

Most people have hoses as that is the easiest way to begin (or stay if you want). Silicone hoses are flexible, multi-use and and cheap. They can have a variety of disconnect fittings attached too.

As I am only just starting to go no hose change, most of the silicone hoses will remain until I've worked out exactly where I am heading (i.e. do I want to add more automation in the form of electronic ball valves.

He fellow brewers
The 1/2" pipe and fittings are in SS 304, and 316
Hoses are Silicon High temp and thick wall.
One factor I included in this design is to keep the possibility to disassemble it for cleaning and maintenance.
The idea to replace the hoses using SS tubing and compression fitting is really good, but as my system is always changing because of improvement designs, I prefer right now to keep the hoses. There are still some small hoses movements while cooling.
Certainly, it could be my future step. Thanks for the idea

Exactly what I was thinking. I'll be going a very similar route to what you have achieved, review how it goes for a few brew-days then see if I want to change it up.

 

[tinoespinosa69]

Exactly what I was thinking. I'll be going a very similar route to what you have achieved, review how it goes for a few brew-days then see if I want to change it up.

That is totally right. Automation is also a third phase for this project, but only after increasing my brewing capacity to 30 gal.

 

[SalParadise]

I set mine up in a simlar fashion, and used hoses with quick connects. Easy to clean at the end of brew day by cycling some PBW through everything and hanging the hoses up to dry. I love the idea of a hard piped system, but don't have the luxury of a dedicated brew space. Everything must be broken down and packed up at the end of brew day. Doing it with hoses cuts down on storage space for me. Images posted by @tinoespinosa69 have got me thinking how a setup like that could be the best of both worlds. Attached is the diagram I sketeched up while figuring out how to setup my 3 vessel eHERMS rig. Solid lines indicate water flowing, whereas dotted lines indicate hoses not currently in use.