No fermentation. Help.

Homebrew Talk

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

kylexc

Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2025
Messages
20
Reaction score
8
Location
47904
Hello everyone,
A happy new years to you all. Started brewing last year about this time so just over a year in and it's been a awesome experience so far. Working on some new beers away from my normal Bells Two Hearted clone that I have done 5 batches, using yeast from bells two hearted and propagating that yeast. All the beers have been stellar and are improving. That is where I am at today.

My current problem is the last two brews have never started fermenting. Never had a problem with fermention and all of my fermention were very quick. 4-5 days max to be complete. I bought a Spindle early on to watch the cycle and that has been the best money spent. So fun.

So my last bells two hearted clone failed to ferment a ounce of alcohol. Zero. I had the chemicals not perfect and I messed up my yeast starter both times with too little yeast (maybe 20ml of liquid yeast) and too much water in my yeast starter. At this time I didn't know about the too much water. So I finally called It a loss and tossed it

Next and currently have a Bluemoon clone at 5 days that has failed to ferment again. First round of yeast was again too watered down for the little amount of yeast I used to start the starter. Seeing no action the second day I prepared another yeast starter. This time I went back to my notes and realized my mistake. It's only a 1 liter starter and I was doing 1.5++ liters... So this time I used the correct amount of water for yeast starter. Big thick layer of yeast on bottom after 48 hours. Me Feeling good I figured out the problem I went ahead and dumped it in the bluemoon clone at day 3.

Currently the bluemoon still hasn't started fermenting after 2 days with the fresh yeast starter.

Things to know:
I make the yeast starter which has been on the shelf for about 6months.
Bluemoon recipe was classic clone recipe for a 4.5 gallon batch.
I added a teaspoon of sodium chloride and gypsum each to my RO water.
PH was around 5.4 from a properly setup ph meter.
Boiled an extra 15 minutes longer to give a high percentage beer.
Yeast was a fresh US-05 with 48 hours in yeast starter. Pitched around 68 degrees.
Fermenter is clean and sealed. Mine is clear so I cover it up due to light.
Fermenter Temperature is held with a simple plant heater at 67-68F entire time.
SG 1.016 from spindle which has been reading a little low I believe.

I thought I was on the right track when I realized I was using too much water and that would explain all my stalls I had but here I am again with fresh correct yeast starter.

What am I missing?

Should I toss a fresh yeast packet alone into the fermenter (so a 3rd pitch)? So far I have only used the yeast starter after 48 hours before pitching into the brew, never just the packet.

Thanks for reading and any help is appreciated! Cheers!
 
1000010228.jpg

For fun. This is my yeast starter with not too much water.
 
I am a little confused. A packet of dry US-05 cost about $6. Why wouldn't you just rehydrate it for 15-30 min and pitch it on brew day and be assured of the proper yeast cell count. There is no need for a yeast starter with dry yeast. What is the advantage of saving yeast on the shelf for 6 months for $6? Maybe I am missing something.
 
I am a little confused. A packet of dry US-05 cost about $6. Why wouldn't you just rehydrate it for 15-30 min and pitch it on brew day and be assured of the proper yeast cell count. There is no need for a yeast starter with dry yeast. What is the advantage of saving yeast on the shelf for 6 months for $6? Maybe I am missing something.
$6? Time to shop around.
Screenshot_20250111-111451.png
 
I am a little confused. A packet of dry US-05 cost about $6. Why wouldn't you just rehydrate it for 15-30 min and pitch it on brew day and be assured of the proper yeast cell count. There is no need for a yeast starter with dry yeast. What is the advantage of saving yeast on the shelf for 6 months for $6? Maybe I am missing something.
There is no need to rehydrate either.
 
Agreed with above. Dry yeast typically doesn't require anything but direct pitching.

Additionally, you mention too much water in your starter, but not how much malt you are using in it. Are you going for the typical 1.036 gravity starter or something else? I did some quick math (don't think you put your SG in the post above) and I guessed you were at 1.066 SG in a 4.5g batch and should require two packets of US-05 without a built up starter. A 1l starter is not sufficient for that gravity in the first place.

Edit: units
 
Last edited:
Hey jim, I just haven't experimented with dry yeast too much but have some ready if something like this happened. I thought the yeast starter had plenty of yeast in it this last time (pictured above). Or at least I thought. Me with the stuck fermentation... Ugh.
I've always done yeast starters because it worked so good and fermented so quickly in the past! Everything that came from was above my expectations for taste. Last year I started with liquid yeast and never bought another yeast because I got them from other beers. My closest brew shop is just under 2 hours away and is expensive. $6 for us-05 as well. The liquid stuff is why I propagating my own. It's closer to $15 packet.

Hello Steve, I know so many Steve's! Lmao. I like to have my beer cheap and delicious. I have so much yeast in the freezer ready for the next brew days to come... It's wonderful.

Shoengine my hydrometer isn't the most accurate (it's always all over the place) which is something I have been meaning to find a better solution for but never moved forward because the beer was good and I was new. My grain bill was from here actually (link below).

For weight:
4.5 lbs of 2 row
3.5 lbs of white wheat
1lb of rolled oats.
Maybe 7 gallons of water, boiled for an extra 15 minutes. Which ended around 4.5 gallons.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1264357/blue-moon-clone

Never had any problems with fermention until these last two brews. Maybe I should shake the fermenter up? Should I toss another yeast packet in and try? I have a us-04 that I need to use.

Thanks for the help!
 
Shoengine you really think my og could be that high? I am only sparging the mash for an hour. Then another 2.5 gallons to rinse for 30 minutes. I was expecting maybe typical 1.036 if that. My og has always been on the low side but with a not so accurate tool. Hence why I boiled this for an extra 15 minutes for an experiment
 
Sometimes you just have to have that specific yeast and it's only available in slurry form - I get that.
But when you could use anything out there, dry yeast is always the easiest and most convenient choice, IMO.

Dry requires no cold pack to ship.
It requires no starter.
It requires no oxygenation.
It's half the price of liquid yeast.
It can remain viable well beyond the sell-by date.
You don't have to smack it.
It fits in your shirt pocket.
It sounds cool when you shake it.
It creates re-usable liquid yeast, if you're into that.

What's not to love?
 
Snuffy thanks for explaining the dry yeast some more. I will order some more to have some on standby.

Hypothetically if you took one packet of dry yeast and added it to a 1 liter starter would you have the amount of yeast of 2 packets by 48 hours on a stir bar. In my mind I thought I would have more then 2 packs. Thinking this over, I think I am wrong.

I have read people doing two packs of liquid yeast into a 2 liter starter but I didn't expect to have to do that on a smaller batch. But if the sg is higher then I was expecting like Shoengine mentioned i need two packets. Boiling it longer would have raised the sg. Hmmm.

Could I just add some RO water to the mix? Add the water back in to lower the sg? With the yeast in it already would that allow the yeast to start to ferment (shake it up some) or would the yeast be dead because the sg was too high from the beginning.
 
1000010244.png


The drop in gravity about the middle of chart is when I pitched the second yeast, maybe 300ml. Usually it is very close to 1.000 when it stops moving and is done. Or I think it's done.
 
Shoengine you really think my og could be that high? I am only sparging the mash for an hour. Then another 2.5 gallons to rinse for 30 minutes. I was expecting maybe typical 1.036 if that. My og has always been on the low side but with a not so accurate tool. Hence why I boiled this for an extra 15 minutes for an experiment
Based on your recipe and volumes, your OG should have been in the range 1.055 - 1.065, depending on what your actual conversion efficiency was, and how effective your lautering and sparging was.

By the way "sparging" is rinsing the grains after, or simultaneously with, draining the initial wort from the mash. So, you mashed for 1 hour and sparged with 2.5 gal for 30 minutes.

Brew on :mug:
 
I Obtained 2 packets of US-05 (11.5grams) and will pitch those in tomorrow. I will take a reading to see what gravity it is at.

Just the yeast packets which will be a first for myself. Thankfully a buddy was flying in late and he stopped at the brew shop and got some.

Will report back. Thank you for the help!
 
You may want to take a hydrometer reading to confirm what your spindle is telling you before pitching anymore yeast. If your SG is already that low, more yeast isn’t going to do a whole lot.
What was your mash temp and how long did you mash before the boil?
 
Last edited:
Yes, I will double check with my hydrometer. I had some inconsistencies with the hydrometer and didn't trust it. It most likely was my own error with it.

Mash temp was 154F for an hour, then sparged with 2.5 gal for 30 minutes about the same temperature. Boiled for 75 minutes.

The spindle was pre built and pre calibrated.
 
You mentioned several successful batches before these two recent ones. Do you still have ispindel data from the successful ones?

If they started out with 1.050 or something, then the problem isn't your yeast or starter at all- the problem is in your mash/sparge process somehow giving you nothing to ferment.
 
Last edited:
Yes! This was my first time I milled everything except the oats. I milled at 0.32. I only did it once.

For the ispindle data I looked and didn't find any screen shots. I deleted the data unfortunately. I honestly just used the spindle to tell me things were working and when it was done. The data would usually show the sg every 4-8 hours stepping down until maybe 1.005. I didn't even bother with recalibrating it because my process wasn't the best. Messing up several things. Trying new ideas. It all came out better and better. I will recalibrate it after this batch.

So I check the sg and I got 1.028.

From that data I didn't put the new yeast in. I simply shook the mixture up pretty good to maybe get the yeast going again?

Again, thank you for all the help and comments!
PXL_20250112_181807764.MP.jpg


PXL_20250112_182426288.MP.jpg
 
Yes! This was my first time I milled everything except the oats. I milled at 0.32. I only did it once.

For the ispindle data I looked and didn't find any screen shots. I deleted the data unfortunately. I honestly just used the spindle to tell me things were working and when it was done. The data would usually show the sg every 4-8 hours stepping down until maybe 1.005. I didn't even bother with recalibrating it because my process wasn't the best. Messing up several things. Trying new ideas. It all came out better and better. I will recalibrate it after this batch.

So I check the sg and I got 1.028.

From that data I didn't put the new yeast in. I simply shook the mixture up pretty good to maybe get the yeast going again?

Again, thank you for all the help and comments!
View attachment 866628

View attachment 866629
You are using a refractometer for SG measurements, not a hydrometer. Refractometers get "confused" when alcohol is present, as they are designed only for measuring solutions of sugar in water. Both alcohol and sugar have higher indices of refraction (what you are actually measuring with a refractometer) than water, so give readings higher than 0 when present. A refractometer canmot tell whether the higher index of refraction is due to the presence of sugar, alcohol, or both.

Fortunately there are calculators that can correct the readings for the presence of alcohol, but you need to know the OG in order to use them.

In any case, your SG is less than what your refractometer is telling you once fermentation has started.

Brew on :mug:
 
Last edited:
Hello everyone,
A happy new years to you all. Started brewing last year about this time so just over a year in and it's been a awesome experience so far. Working on some new beers away from my normal Bells Two Hearted clone that I have done 5 batches, using yeast from bells two hearted and propagating that yeast. All the beers have been stellar and are improving. That is where I am at today.

My current problem is the last two brews have never started fermenting. Never had a problem with fermention and all of my fermention were very quick. 4-5 days max to be complete. I bought a Spindle early on to watch the cycle and that has been the best money spent. So fun.

So my last bells two hearted clone failed to ferment a ounce of alcohol. Zero. I had the chemicals not perfect and I messed up my yeast starter both times with too little yeast (maybe 20ml of liquid yeast) and too much water in my yeast starter. At this time I didn't know about the too much water. So I finally called It a loss and tossed it

Next and currently have a Bluemoon clone at 5 days that has failed to ferment again. First round of yeast was again too watered down for the little amount of yeast I used to start the starter. Seeing no action the second day I prepared another yeast starter. This time I went back to my notes and realized my mistake. It's only a 1 liter starter and I was doing 1.5++ liters... So this time I used the correct amount of water for yeast starter. Big thick layer of yeast on bottom after 48 hours. Me Feeling good I figured out the problem I went ahead and dumped it in the bluemoon clone at day 3.

Currently the bluemoon still hasn't started fermenting after 2 days with the fresh yeast starter.

Things to know:
I make the yeast starter which has been on the shelf for about 6months.
Bluemoon recipe was classic clone recipe for a 4.5 gallon batch.
I added a teaspoon of sodium chloride and gypsum each to my RO water.
PH was around 5.4 from a properly setup ph meter.
Boiled an extra 15 minutes longer to give a high percentage beer.
Yeast was a fresh US-05 with 48 hours in yeast starter. Pitched around 68 degrees.
Fermenter is clean and sealed. Mine is clear so I cover it up due to light.
Fermenter Temperature is held with a simple plant heater at 67-68F entire time.
SG 1.016 from spindle which has been reading a little low I believe.

I thought I was on the right track when I realized I was using too much water and that would explain all my stalls I had but here I am again with fresh correct yeast starter.

What am I missing?

Should I toss a fresh yeast packet alone into the fermenter (so a 3rd pitch)? So far I have only used the yeast starter after 48 hours before pitching into the brew, never just the packet.

Thanks for reading and any help is appreciated! Cheers!
Can you explain what you did with your starter? You want to make a starter with wort not water.
 
I did check the beer with the hydrometer and it read zero alcohol. The mixture tasted fine and looked fine.

The yeast starter I made myself.
4 oz dme
8oz water
Sprinkle yeast nutrients

Pressure cooker for 30 minutes.
 
I did check the beer with the hydrometer and it read zero alcohol. The mixture tasted fine and looked fine.

The yeast starter I made myself.
4 oz dme
8oz water
Sprinkle yeast nutrients

Pressure cooker for 30 minutes.
You can't read alcohol content in beer with a hydrometer. You need to read the SG and then use a calculation involving the OG and current SG to calculate ABV. Can you post a picture of your hydrometer?

4 oz DME in 8 fl oz (8.33 oz by wt) of water is going to give you a wort at 100°P * 4 / (4 + 8.33) = 32.4°Plato, which corresponds to an SG of 1.138, which is way too concentrated for a yeast starter wort. Starter wort is usually in the range of 1.035 - 1.040. The high gravity starter wort would put the yeast under very high stress. Don't know if the stress will be enough to kill the yeast.

Brew on :mug:
 
Last edited:
I did check the beer with the hydrometer and it read zero alcohol. The mixture tasted fine and looked fine.

The yeast starter I made myself.
4 oz dme
8oz water
Sprinkle yeast nutrients

Pressure cooker for 30 minutes.

And you're saying that was too much water?
Was that your "good" starter or the "too diluted" one?

Your starter in the picture is showing about a liter, this is far less volume than that.

What do you do with the starter after pressure cooking?
 
An easy step I skipped on was getting the og. My apologies I didn't get that. I didn't trust it. Which I will do in the future. Maybe it's more consistent then I thought.

I didn't get a picture of the hydrometer. I can get one today.

The yeast starter is a DIY canned condensed wort to store on a dark and colder shelf. It is 6-7 months old. I got the recipe from here actually. I forgot the crucial part that it made 10 yeast starters and you add the extra water to fill up to a liter. I found some on YouTube as well with the same recipe but a little more yeast nutrients.

The starters before this batch. Was a complete failure. I was using small amount of liquid yeast (bright white) maybe half a normal liquid packet or less, into a single 8oz yeast starter which I then filled to 2 Liters with RO water. It should have been filled up too 1 liter, unless I added another yeast starter for a 2 liter starter which I didn't. The too much water starter still changed from a dark orange to a brighter orange over 48 hours but it didn't settle out after I took it off the stir plate. The picture above is the correct amount of water and the yeast after 48 hours, looked happy and settling at the bottom. I trashed maybe half of the extra liquid off the top (not the yeast) and pitch the yeast in the brew.

So I definitely goofed my last Bells recipe. The current Bluemoon batch should have... worked. But here I am. Still nothing happening after shaking. No surprise. I am hesitant to even try even a single yeast packet into a failed batch a week in. The recipe isn't expensive to retry and I knew I would run into problems eventually but to happen twice in a row. That's when I found you all.

From my friends group I am the only one who brews. I haven't met anyone else who brews let alone kegs beer, or even distills. I know one guy here in town that went to business at a local brew house this year but I only bought some small equipment from him. It was just nice to talk to another brewer way above my level for only 15 minutes. Read a lot of guides but I guess I need to go back and revisit.

Thank you everyone for the comments
 
I ran your grain bill and it looks like at 75% efficency it will be about 5.35%

1000006829.jpg


Minimum starter size for that is around 1.5l but I'm not sure if you are starting with a packet of yeast or if you are using an old slurry "off the shelf".

To properly use the precanned wort you need to know it's gravity and then what the gravity will be when watered down. The yeast have a range of effectiveness.
 
With all of the great advice you're getting here I would start writing down a list to help you in your next brew.

When I first started brewing I kept a notebook for recipes, notes on every brew and things to better next time. I say notebook but it could be a spreadsheet on a PC, Tablet or phone.

Just a suggestion as I see lots of posts with lots of ideas and suggestions.
 
The yeast starter doesn't have yeast in it yet. I add it later. The jar consist of 4oz DME and 8 Ounces of water. Again I was wrong, it didn't make 10 jars. I made 10. Then add the water to 1 liter... Sorry about the omission Doug! Wasn't intended.

I keep notes on an app that I used until I got comfortable. It was more about ideas, processes, what to do when you get said problem, and everything in between. Lots of verbal stuff. Generally I stayed with the same brew and now switching to something different feeling more confident.

I did have alcohol... Picture below.

I didn't realize the refractometer was limited like that with alcohol present. Nice!

So I added both packets of dry yeast. It's all for science at this point. Better to know then not.

Really appreciate all the words. Hopefully see some action the next day or two. Cheers.

1000010275.jpg


PXL_20250113_201904646.MP.jpg
 
The yeast starter doesn't have yeast in it yet. I add it later. The jar consist of 4oz DME and 8 Ounces of water. Again I was wrong, it didn't make 10 jars. I made 10. Then add the water to 1 liter... Sorry about the omission Doug! Wasn't intended.

I keep notes on an app that I used until I got comfortable. It was more about ideas, processes, what to do when you get said problem, and everything in between. Lots of verbal stuff. Generally I stayed with the same brew and now switching to something different feeling more confident.

I did have alcohol... Picture below.

I didn't realize the refractometer was limited like that with alcohol present. Nice!

So I added both packets of dry yeast. It's all for science at this point. Better to know then not.

Really appreciate all the words. Hopefully see some action the next day or two. Cheers.

View attachment 866761

View attachment 866762
Your hydrometer is showing an SG of ~1.012, and this is a typical value for a finished fermentation.

Brew on :mug:
 
Your hydrometer is showing an SG of ~1.012, and this is a typical value for a finished fermentation.

Brew on :mug:
And just to be sure... you do NOT look at the Potential % alcohol scale on the hydrometer for beer brewing. That's not how it works at all.

To determine beer ABV, math happens between the OG and FG... it doesn't tell you an ABV on the scale.
 
Back
Top