No fermentation after 48 hours

[bigpal]

I just did a light pilsner batch, OG was right on target at 1.049. I pitched 48 hours ago, and still no activity. I had a small cake at the top right from the start, and now its gone, and I've seen no swirling activity indicative of fermentation. I pitched with a White Labs actuator, standard 5 gallon batch size (actually less). Is my batch ruined or can I pitch it again? I have it in a 6 gallon carboy and I'm afraid oxidation might have already taken its toll on the brew.

Another problem is that I had just over 4 gallons when I pitched, and I expected to top off, but the OG was perfect, so I left it. Does this mean my brewhouse efficiency was bad? Did I leave too much wort in the grain bed?

Thanks for the hand guys. I've usually seen fermentation start in that 24-36 hour window. Maybe its time I start using starters.

BP

 

[wilserbrewer]

What is the actual temp of the wort. If you are on the cool side it could take another day. My guess is that it will kick within the next 24 hours. RDWHAHB

Nothing has likely happened that has ruined the batch. If after another day no sign of fermentation is present, you could pitch a pack of dry yeast. Gravity is unchanged I assume?

 

[brewagentjay]

wow that's a long time to wait for fermentation to kick in.....I'm not a AG guy yet so not sure if that would make the difference.

 

[bigpal]

I should've mentioned the temp, very critical. I have it at room temp, which is 68-70 degrees. I was going to wait until it started, then kick it down to 60 for the duration of the primary. Then rack at 44 degrees for 3-4 weeks.

Also, I've never seen so much trub after only a few hours in the primary. I filter fairly well too when going from the tun to the brew pot, and the brew pot to the primary.

Edit: Also great point on the gravity, I'll recheck it today.

 

[Yooper]

Without a starter, it may take up to 72 hours for fermentation to start in an ale. If you've made a lager, it might take signifantly longer. As long as your sanitation was good, the beer should be fine waiting for fermentation to start.

It sounds like you got poor efficiency in this batch. A couple of things you could look at are the crush, and your technique. Maybe not using enough water to sparge played a role, for example.

It's good that you didn't top off- you don't want to water down your wort. If you've hit the desired OG, that's good.

 

[Yooper]

A lager, even one with an OG of 1.049, needs a big starter. What yeast strain did you use? 60 degrees seems too warm for a lager yeast. Most like to be at 50 degrees during primary.

(Check out the pitching calculator at mrmalty.com, http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html to see how much yeast you should pitch in each beer).

 

[goose1873]

I just had a batch take all of 65 hours and then was fine...wait 72 hours. then address the problem.

 

[bigpal]

A lager, even one with an OG of 1.049, needs a big starter. What yeast strain did you use? 60 degrees seems too warm for a lager yeast. Most like to be at 50 degrees during primary.

I used the WLP802 Czech yeast from WL. I believe the optimum temp for fermentation is 50-55. I was worried going from 70 to 50 would shock the yeast.... however WL states that I should keep the wort at 70 until fermentation begins, so I'm going that route.

I'm freakin out because I just dumped 5 gallons of my canadian pilsner down the sink last weekend. Primary went well, but either foreign bacteria or oxidation caused a VERY bad sour taste (probably wild yeast or bacteria). I usually sanitize very throughly. Could the oxygen in the headspace of the secondary cause this? I racked after one week, and used a 7 gallon bucket for 5.5 gallons of beer, at 52 degrees.

Since then, I've been racking into my corny kegs and purging the oxygen with CO2.

BP

 

[bigpal]

FYI - After arriving home from work yesterday, I checked the carboy and was pleased to see some very active fermentation underway. Judging by the yeast cake that was no present when I left for work, the fermentation began right after I left, putting it right around 48 hours.

Thanks all...

 

[Yooper]

I used the WLP802 Czech yeast from WL. I believe the optimum temp for fermentation is 50-55. I was worried going from 70 to 50 would shock the yeast.... however WL states that I should keep the wort at 70 until fermentation begins, so I'm going that route.

I'm freakin out because I just dumped 5 gallons of my canadian pilsner down the sink last weekend. Primary went well, but either foreign bacteria or oxidation caused a VERY bad sour taste (probably wild yeast or bacteria). I usually sanitize very throughly. Could the oxygen in the headspace of the secondary cause this? I racked after one week, and used a 7 gallon bucket for 5.5 gallons of beer, at 52 degrees.

Since then, I've been racking into my corny kegs and purging the oxygen with CO2.

BP

Oxygen in the headspace isn't going to cause an infection. I would suggest that underpitching yeast (and even WL will admit that there isn't enough yeast in that vial to be optimum for a lager and has instructions for a starter on its website) is responsible, by letting foreign yeast and bacteria take hold before fermentation can get going. That's why they have you start it at 70 and then reduce the temperature- so the yeast can get started, not because it's the best practice to make a good lager.

Since it's going now, that's fine. If you're going to make lagers, though, I'd suggest next time making a starter according to mrmalty.com's calculator, and fermenting at optimum fermentation temperatures. That will improve the quality of the lager.

Just like when I make an ale, I don't pitch at 80 degrees and reduce the temperature to 65, I don't pitch a lager 15 degrees too warm, either. It actually seems to work best to pitch cooler and allow the fermentation to rise to 50-52 degrees instead of dropping the temperature after fermentation has started. One of the reasons is that it takes 5 gallons of fermenting liquid a long time to drop 10 degrees. If the temperature drops too fast, it can stall fermentation. If it drops too slow, primary fermentation can be nearly over before you get to the optimum fermentation temperature.

Lagers are definitely a bit different than ales, and sometimes need more pampering.

 

[bigpal]

Good information... thanks for the help.

One last question (for this thread), maybe you can help again. I racked my hefeweizen 3 weeks ago, and added 3/4 cup of corn sugar 4 days ago for carbonation. Today, the beer is still near completely flat, and the tank had hardly any pressure. I just blasted 30lbs into the OUT port of my corny keg to assist.

Should I add yeast to consume the corn sugar? The beer actually tastes fine, as if the sugar was consumed, but didn't produce enough carbonation.

 

[BioHopology]

Great info! Patience and temp is key!