No carbonation in bottle after six weeks -- what to do?

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peripatetic

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Hi all,

I brewed a Chimay Blue Clone (Austin Homebrew extract kit) a while back and left it in the primary fermenter for two months. I then bottled it (after adding the priming sugar) and it has been six weeks. when I popped one open yesterday (after refridgerating for two days) it had zero carbonation. No pop, perfectly flat.

Now, I'm aware of the llazy_lama's famous graph about high OG beers requiring more time to carbonate (although I don't have it handy). But this seems like more than that. Is it possible that all of my yeasties have died? If so, should I open all of the bottles, pour back into a bucket, re-pitch some yeast, and re-bottle? Is there anything else I can do to ensure good carbonation?

Obviously, I'll sanitize everything along the way. How much do I have to worry about oxidation and such?

Thanks for any and all advice!
 
Three questions:

1. What was the highest temperature your beer reached after the active fermentation ended (approximately)?

2. How much priming sugar did you use?

3. At what temperature are you storing the bottles?

I highly doubt your yeast died. From what I hear it would smell pretty awful.
 
The beer has been consistently between 60 and 70 since it was bottled, possibly up to 72 or something. I used 4.5 oz priming sugar (standard in Austin Homebrew kits).

I've had great, great luck with AHS kits -- this is the first time it hasn't worked for me. The beer doesn't smell or taste bad -- perhaps a little on the sweet side compared with "real" Chimay Blue, but this is an extract kit after all.
 
Can you see a layer of yeast on the bottom of the bottles? I'm guessing you should. If so, shake those things up and give it another couple weeks and see if that helps.

Absolutely do not pour the beer back into the bucket, though. If it still isn't carbed up, get some carb tablets and add them per the directions to each bottle and recap.
 
Thanks so much for your help, mojotele. No residue at all in the bottom of the bottles. I'm worried about adding even more sugar to the bottles at this point -- I already primed it.

Out of curiosity -- why do you say "absolutely do not pour back in the bucket"?
 
peripatetic said:
left it in the primary fermenter for two months.
Click to expand...

Maybe you were just extra careful when racking and didn't get enough yeast in there. Might take even longer to carbonate with so little yeast.

How did you add the priming sugar? You may also be at risk of having some low/non carbonated ones and some uber carbonated bottle bombs..
 
I added the priming sugar like I always do -- boil the sugar in a cup of water, let it cool, pour it in the bottom of a bucket, and then siphon the beer from the carboy into the bucket with the end of the siphon submerged and causing a slow circular motion. It should be very well mixed.

Maybe I'll give it another month and see what it is doing. But right now it is absolutely, perfectly flat, with not even a hint of a hiss when popping the cap.
 
peripatetic said:
I added the priming sugar like I always do -- boil the sugar in a cup of water, let it cool, pour it in the bottom of a bucket, and then siphon the beer from the carboy into the bucket with the end of the siphon submerged and causing a slow circular motion. It should be very well mixed.

Maybe I'll give it another month and see what it is doing. But right now it is absolutely, perfectly flat, with not even a hint of a hiss when popping the cap.
Click to expand...

Try another bottle, that is weird. Did you rack it above the yeast cake, trying not to agitate it? Because you may have very very little yeast if you did that and left it for two months. I'd suggest buying some dry yeast and adding a very little sprinkle to each bottle if they are still not carbonated in a few weeks.. I don't know what to say about priming again. If there is no "hiss", the priming sugar is probably still in there..
 
peripatetic said:
Thanks so much for your help, mojotele. No residue at all in the bottom of the bottles. I'm worried about adding even more sugar to the bottles at this point -- I already primed it.

Out of curiosity -- why do you say "absolutely do not pour back in the bucket"?
Click to expand...

Wow. No residue at all. Sounds like you have little to no yeast in there. What yeast did you use?

I said to "absolutely" not pour it in the bucket to avoid oxidation. But, if your yeast content is that low, it may be unavoidable. If it comes to that, lower the bottles as far down in the bucket as possible without dunking your hand in there and pour against the side to avoid splashing. Then follow the advice in the post above.
 
Does the AHS call for a double pitch? Considering this is a high ABV beer the yeasties might have perished trying to give you your precious nectar! lol. The recipe that I'm going to give a shot calls for a another pitch 3 days before bottling for bottling conditioning for at LEAST 6 months..

Was this the first bottle you cracked open? I had an odd thing happen to me sampling my last batch in the bottle.. My second tester was completely flat, I tried another bottle and it was good as were all the subsequent ones.. This may have been my first and only bottle that may not have sealed correctly, not quite sure but this could be the case for you.

Note: I just checked the AHS recipe and it does not call for a second pitch, but notes that it would be ready to drink in 4 months.. sooo I don't think it would take that long to carbonate however.
 
I suggest opening another bottle. I recently had a bottle of California lager that was flat, all the others were fine. The only explanation I can think of is the cap wasn't put on properly.
 
Has anyone ever suspected their caps when they were put on while still wet with "one step"? My first few batches, I sanitized then rinsed with water but now I'm just trying to shake off as much of the "one step" solution before capping and it just seems like my carbing is not going as well as before. (got some starsan, planning on switching as soon as the onestep is gone). All of the other procedures are pretty much the same and use about the same amount of corn sugar to prime but it is true that I brew a wide variety of kits.
 
Try mixing some in the glass
with AB Select 55 "the lightest beer in the world"
couldn't add much flavor, and would carb it right up
:D
 
I've opened two bottles -- one this past sunday and one about 2.5 weeks ago -- both flat.

I used the WLP-500 Trappiste yeast, and I actually pitched two vials of it. It still didn't finish as dry as I would like, but the alcohol came to about 7.9%. Not the 9.2% I was expecting. I don't have the setup yet to make a starter, and maybe that's why that happened -- I just didn't pitch enough yeast.

Also, when I bottle I rack to a bottling bucket, being very careful not to disturb the trub. then I wait a few hours to let whatever made it into the bottling bucket settle out, and bottle. So, yeah, it goes into the bottle very clean; maybe being that careful after two months in primary means that there weren't enough yeast still in suspension.

I could add some dry yeast and re-bottle, but my worry is that this recipe is very specific when it comes to yeast types. I suppose that since primary fermentation is over, it probably doesn't matter what type of yeast I use just for carbonation.
 
peripatetic said:
I could add some dry yeast and re-bottle, but my worry is that this recipe is very specific when it comes to yeast types. I suppose that since primary fermentation is over, it probably doesn't matter what type of yeast I use just for carbonation.
Click to expand...

You've already gotten that special character from your "specific" yeast. Just use a standard california ale dry yeast. It really doesn't matter. I'd go half a packet. Mix, rebottle immediately. In 2 weeks you'll see.
 
I thought I read of someone on here that, rather than pouring out and rebottling, they simply added a couple grains of dry yeast to each bottle. I dunno though, might drive me crazy. :cross:
 
ChrisS68 said:
I thought I read of someone on here that, rather than pouring out and rebottling, they simply added a couple grains of dry yeast to each bottle. I dunno though, might drive me crazy. :cross:
Click to expand...

That sounds like it could work, yet it also sounds like an easy way to make a bottle bomb.
 
You can't cause bottle bombs with too much yeast. The yeast multiply and take over the bottle anyway. The amount of sugar is whats important.
 
I'm not sure if this is part of the problem or not, but you underpitched by quite a lot.

Attenuation on your yeast is 75% - 80%, so let's assume an attenuation of 77.5% (right in the middle). To get about 9.2% ABV, your OG must've been about 1.090. If you plug that OG into Mr. Malty for 5 gallons with a yeast production date of today (your yeast production date was certainly earlier), you need to make a 2.11 liter starter if you use two vials for the starter alone.

It sounds like you didn't do a starter at all and pitched the vials right into the wort. That may have been the reason why you didn't get the attenuation you wanted. Not sure about the bottling problem, though. It may be that the yeast didn't have enough oxygen as well and that hindered reproduction leading to very little yeast being in suspension by the time you bottled. I don't know enough about yeast to say if that's realistic or not, though.
 
i would be inclined to try the dry yeast thing... certainly worth a try and seems easier than pouring all the beer into a bucket and rebottling them.
 
ChrisS68 said:
I thought I read of someone on here that, rather than pouring out and rebottling, they simply added a couple grains of dry yeast to each bottle. I dunno though, might drive me crazy. :cross:
Click to expand...

Yep. That may have been me. I did thi and it worked well. Use a cheap dry yeast, like others said you already got the yeast character from fermentation, you just need a little carbonation. Pop each bottle one at a time and add one or two specs of yeast. You don't need more than that. It's quick and easy and doesn't introduce oxygen like pouring them all back into the bucket.
 
jmo88 said:
Yep. That may have been me. I did thi and it worked well. Use a cheap dry yeast, like others said you already got the yeast character from fermentation, you just need a little carbonation. Pop each bottle one at a time and add one or two specs of yeast. You don't need more than that. It's quick and easy and doesn't introduce oxygen like pouring them all back into the bucket.
Click to expand...

After consideration, I'm on the bandwagon, too. Sprinkling a little in each bottle sounds like a winner. When I poured into the bucket, I also added some boiled hop juice to change a barleywine from English to American.
 
Well, dang. Uncapping, sprinkling, and re-capping definitely sounds like the way to go.

But here's a question. I did have an OG of 1089 (pretty freaking good guess, mojotele!), so there may be a lot of fermentables left in there in addition to the priming sugar. So, if I add yeast and then re-cap, am I making bottle bombs?

I'm thinking about trying this with maybe 2-4 bottles, waiting three weeks, and seeing what I get. The rest of the bottles can simply wait -- it certainly won't hurt them to condition in the bottle longer. If those first few turn out well, then I'll do it to the other 45 bottles.

BTW, I actually used real Chimay bottles to bottle this stuff (sanitized, of course). So, once I get it to work, it'll be pretty freaking awesome.

Thanks for the help, all. This is probably the bestest place on the whole interwebs.
 
peripatetic said:
Well, dang. Uncapping, sprinkling, and re-capping definitely sounds like the way to go.

But here's a question. I did have an OG of 1089 (pretty freaking good guess, mojotele!), so there may be a lot of fermentables left in there in addition to the priming sugar. So, if I add yeast and then re-cap, am I making bottle bombs?

I'm thinking about trying this with maybe 2-4 bottles, waiting three weeks, and seeing what I get. The rest of the bottles can simply wait -- it certainly won't hurt them to condition in the bottle longer. If those first few turn out well, then I'll do it to the other 45 bottles.

BTW, I actually used real Chimay bottles to bottle this stuff (sanitized, of course). So, once I get it to work, it'll be pretty freaking awesome.

Thanks for the help, all. This is probably the bestest place on the whole interwebs.
Click to expand...

Nah, you shouldn't get bottle bombs. You just let it sit too long and didn't get enough yeast to eat the priming sugar. I'd just add it to all the bottles. If you are really worried, I'd just pop a bottle open @ 2 weeks to see if it is carbonated well (or overly well). If you like the carbonation, then refrigerate em to make the yeast go dormant. Otherwise, I'll say that adding yeast directly to the bottle has taken an extra week or two to carbonate in my experience (so, 5 weeks instead of 3). But that's just my experience I've had with my brews. I added about 3-4 'grains' of dry yeast per bottle. Feel free to add more if you want it to carb faster.
 
I don't know about the bottle bomb thing...

Based off your stated OG and ABV, your FG should've been about 1.029. That's really high for an extract recipe.

I'm getting past my comfort zone, here. Anyone more experienced care to comment? This whole thing sounds like a combination of a stuck ferment and high yeast flocculation.
 
I suppose I could decant (carefully!) back into a secondary fermenter and see if I can get my FG down a bit by pitching more yeast. I measured it at 1027 or so. I figured that was a bit high, but it doesn't really taste that far off, other that being a little sweeter than I was expecting (more sugars, after all). Then I could add more priming sugar immediately before bottling again. Anyone think that's a terrible idea?
 
You said you bottled in Chimay bottles, right? Those bottles can handle a higher volume of co2. Just something to consider if in fact there still is fermentable sugars. How much priming sugar did you use for the 5gal batch? Sorry if you said that already.
 
jmo88 said:
You said you bottled in Chimay bottles, right? Those bottles can handle a higher volume of co2. Just something to consider if in fact there still is fermentable sugars. How much priming sugar did you use for the 5gal batch? Sorry if you said that already.
Click to expand...

4.5oz, standard for Austin Homebrew kits.
 
Bump - how did this turn out?

I have a similar problem. Brewed a St. Bernadus 8 clone back in December. Sat in primary for one month, secondary for another month. Did the usual steps for bottling, stored at 70 degrees, and after 6 weeks still no carb.

Some bottles have a very very small layer of sediment (much smaller than usual) but zero bubbles so far. As an experiment I opened one of the bottles and dropped a couple of drops of Wyeast 3787 starter I have going for a batch this weekend into the bottle and recapped yesterday. We'll see if that makes any difference after a week or two.

If not, I am thinking of a few options:

1) Save some Wyeast 3787 starter and drop a little in each bottle
2) Hydrate and add a few drops of Champain yeast to each bottle
3) #2 plus a some more corn sugar (maybe 2 oz)?

Any other suggestions?
 
Any update on this issue? I am going to encounter the very same problem, however I'm only at the stage of the beer in the secondary carboy. I had a OG of 1.112 and a FG or 1.028.

I was considering adding the same yeast used in primary fermentation to the bottling bucket along with the priming sugar. The only issue is that im at over 11% ABV and the yeast can only survive to 9% Abv.
 
I have them buried under a pile of coats in the back of a closet behind all my brewing and fermenting equipment that shares the same space as the rear of the A/V equipment (amplifier, subwoofer, DVD players, etc) that vents it's heat directly into said closet. It's the hottest area in my home and I figured the extended time in this environment may help carbonate these flat babies.

I should take to the habit of grabbing the 24 packs of flat 12 oz. bottles and give 'em a good swirl to resuspend these tired yeasties.
 
I brewed a Scottish Wee Heavy that was 1.082 and ended with 1.020. This was in August. It was in primary for 2 weeks and secondary for 2 months. Altogether it's been in the bottle about 12 weeks with no carbonation.

I do have a very faint hiss when I open it but not really any carbonation.

I've been mixing it 50/50 with some lighter kegged beer to get some carbonation just to drink some.

It's been at around 68 degrees in my house and there is a small yeast cake on the bottom of the bottles.

What is going on?
 

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