Nitrogen

[motobrewer]

So, I decided to buy a "stout" tap and nitro faucet. I'm actually not the biggest fan of nitro'd stouts but i do like pub ales, esb's, etc on nitro.

while assembling the nitro kit i realized I have absolutely no idea what i'm doing.

So, I bought a faucet and a nitrogen regulator. The Nitrogen regulator has a male coupling. Which is obviously different from the CO2 female coupling. Ok, nitro tanks must be different than CO2 tanks.

so i'm reading the process. apparently you carbonate as normal with CO2 (to a low vol) then you switch it over to nitrogen. Ok, no problem. However, what I have been noticing is people tend to use "nitrogen" and "beer gas" (70% nitro / 30% co2) pretty interchangeably.

So i got my local gas shop and ask for beer gas. Ok, he brings a bottle out. It has the same coupler as CO2 - female end. I told him my regulator has a male end. He said then I'm probably looking for pure Nitrogen.



tl,dr: Anybody know how to probably use a nitrogen setup??

 

[dwDrummer]

Sounds like the guy at the gas shop is assuming that "beer gas" is just straight CO2 not the Nitrogen/CO2 mix that your looking for. You do not want to run straight Ni because your beer will be flat since Ni does not dissolve into liquid. It seems that you have the correct regulator, you just need to find someone that will sell you the mixed (70/30 or 75/25 Ni/CO2) gas which should have the female coupling on the tank. Best of luck.

 

[motobrewer]

well, this was a weld shop. it was 70/30 mix. he also said he had 64/36 mix. but it had a "regular" CO2 coupling on it.

the tank had food grade written on it, as well as N2 and CO2 stickers.

So I just called Airgas - they have "beer gas", with a regular "nitrogen"-style valve. So, maybe my weld shop is confused.

 

[phreaky]

Some shops do fill regular co2 tanks with a mix, while others only use nitrogen tanks. The main difference is beer gas has a higher tank pressure than straight co2, and most co2 regulators can't handle it. If you want to use this shop, you can see if he has the correct fitting to replace the one on your regulator. Should only be 5-10 bucks. Otherwise, you will need him to fill a nitrogen tank for you, or find another shop that does.

 

[motobrewer]

so. I stopped into Airgas and ask for a beer gas cylinder. First they look at me funny then I say it's 70/30 nitrogen. Well they only have 60/40. Ok, fine.

They again wheel out a cylinder with a co2 regulator! now i'm really scratching my head! They said this is all they have.

So I call up one last gas supplier. He has 60/40 with a CGA 580 tank connection (the nitrogen one). Finally! So I stop in there and while checking out I start telling me about all the places I've been that have nitrogen mixtures with a regular CO2 valve. He's shocked. He says that CO2 cylinders are ~800 psi, while even 60/40 Nitrogen blends can excess 2000. He said that putting nitro blends in CO2 cylinders is completely against the Compressed Gas Association standards and is a safety hazard. Either the tank isn't rated correctly or the valve is on the wrong tank.

 

[day_trippr]

According to the attached chart, the gas guy is wrong about CO2 cylinder and primary regulator ratings topping out at 800 psi. Heck, the burst disks won't trigger 'til up around 2200 psi.

I don't know that there really is a safety issue wrt something going "Boom", but perhaps putting mixed gas in a "CO2" cylinder could cause a mix-up problem. I have my 75/25 beer gas in a steel mixed gas CGA-580 cylinder with a mating regulator - that looks for all the world to be the same as any of my CO2 regulators but with a different stem/coupler...

Cheers!

 

[Paps]

Some people will say that the regular CO2 regulators and tanks will hold nitrogen/CO2 mixes just fine. They are gambling with a safety issue.
I compare it to riding on a donut spare tire for a 1,000 mile trip on the interstate at 70 MPH.....sure it might get you down the road for a little while but will probably blow up somewhere along the way. If the supply shop is willing to gamble on their end they should also have the fittings/adaptors to be able to fill up your tank using the `correct nitrogen regulator` and you should make them do so instead of trying to force you to compromise the safety of you and yours.

 

[phreaky]

Some people will say that the regular CO2 regulators and tanks will hold nitrogen/CO2 mixes just fine. They are gambling with a safety issue.
I compare it to riding on a donut spare tire for a 1,000 mile trip on the interstate at 70 MPH.....sure it might get you down the road for a little while but will probably blow up somewhere along the way. If the supply shop is willing to gamble on their end they should also have the fittings/adaptors to be able to fill up your tank using the `correct nitrogen regulator` and you should make them do so instead of trying to force you to compromise the safety of you and yours.

Exactly. When I get a CO2 fill, at room temp the gas sits at about 800 psi, whereas when I get a nitro fill, at room temp it is right at 2200 psi for a 70/30 mix. The tank is no problem, they are safely rated up to 3000+ psi with either valve, but the regulator is where you'll have an issue. Look on the back of most CO2 regulators, and it will say the max input psi. Using a CO2 regulator on a nitrogen tank will at the least kill the high pressure gauge that only goes up to 1500-2000 psi, at the wost, you'll ruin a regulator.