Newbie Needs Advice Please!

[jackstar]

Fellow brewers,

My cousin and i recently started making hard cider and sweet red wine in large volume (15 gallon carboys for each batch). However, we have grown tired of having to bottle everything all the time and worry about bottle cleaning, etc.

I have started to look into kegerator systems online and I am a bit overwhelmed. I have seen all in one kits for about $400 that hold one 1/2 barrel (about 15 gallons) which would work for one of our large batches. However, I don't know how well these perform, and we would still have to get a used 1/2 barrel keg.

We will be placing whatever system we get in my cousin's basement for parties, etc., but the 15 gallons commits us to using only that batch until it's finished, right? Also, how long will something like this stay pressurized and drinkable? These are things I just don't have the experience with and could use advice for.

Are there better and/or similarly expensive ways of tackling this issue (e.g. a smaller fridge with a 5 gallon upright soda keg)? Do those systems exist? We have some assembly skills and would be willing to do it ourselves. Are we better cobbling something together than buying a whole kit online?

Basically I would appreciate any feedback at all from the experts out there. This is not super high quality wine and cider we are making; it's meant to be consumed with family and friends at parties in the basement. We would like a system that does that well without spending too much money.

Thanks in advance for your help.

JS

 

[KevinM]

I'm definately no expert I couldn't possibly give advice on the age, but I'd expect it to stay pressurized and drinkable for an extended period of time (assuming that it's co2 driven). I'd expect that you could potentially switch out 15 gallon kegs (probably a pain to do if possible) but if you're willing to do 5 gallon kegs, then you have wider options.
There are many prebuilt kegerators that take the 5 gallon soda kegs, but everywhere in this part of the forum, especially the two stickes https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/show-us-your-kegerator-29053/ and https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/sizing-your-chest-freezer-corny-kegs-75449/ show that it's pretty easy to build your own. You could build one using an upright minifridge (with a tower) or you can convert a regular refridgerator, or you can convert a chest freezer.

From most people's threads, building seems to be either similarly priced and even cheaper than buying a kegerator, especially if you find a reduced price starting unit. (ebay, craigslist, etc) and depending on how much you want to spend, and the size of the unit, you can hook up a large variety.

There's plenty of people who show the entire step process they've used to build their kegerator/keezer. Check out https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/knotty-pine-cedar-log-keezer-build-223902/

I'm considering getting a Lowe's 5.0 cf freezer up into my apartment to hold 3 kegs and a co2 tank, so I've been digging around the threads for ideas and references. I expect that the cost will be anywhere from 200-400. (I'm going to start with picnic taps (which I have) and a temperature regulator (30 bucks) and a small freezer (170ish). Later, expand it with a collar and add three faucets (30-40 per totaling 100ish and probably the rest of the hardware needed for another...75 or so) and maybe do whatever I want to the outside (50).

Prices were pulled from Home Depot (GE freezer $168, but the lowes was shown to hold 3 kegs, the GE only 2 (darn condensor hump)) and northernbrewer.com for the rest of the prices. I compared this to prices for a fully built kegerator from some other sites and honestly, most of the price seems to be faucet hardware related, especially for a tower. (Seems that you can use any other insulated vertical unit too. see https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/show-us-your-kegerator-29053/index245.html I love the fact that one used a box and another used a toilet paper holder for towers)

****edit****
In consideration, you may want to use nitrogen to dispense the wine, to prevent it from carbonating (unless you wish to do a sparkling wine), so you may want 2 tanks, unless your cider is going to be a flat cider.
And as long as you're replacing co2/nitrogen for the empty space in any keg unit, I really don't expect that you should see any loss in pressure (for a carbonated fluid) or any detriment beyond what you would see if you had it bottled. (Providing you don't spring a leak, have a o ring decay away by leaving it closed and sealed for...20, 30, 40, 90 years? etc.)

****edit2(why not, I'm still the last post)****
Looks like you'll want to look into either plastic or stainless steel hardware since you'll need that for the acidity of cider and wine.

 

[jackstar]

What great info. Thanks very much for that. If you go with a chest FREEZER, at what temperature are you holding the kegs in there and don't the lines get frozen? Again, I am displaying my ignorance, but I could see us getting the freezer and building a nice oak frame around that to match the bar like the other guy did in the link you provided. We could then easily fit a half barrel in there and then just get the kegerator converter kit and run a tap line through the top of the kegerator right? Any other thoughts from anyone? I really appreciate the help.

JS

 

[KevinM]

You'd get a temperature controller and install it somehow There's some threads on that somewhere which I'll find again eventually. With that, you can pretty much set the temperature to anything you want. I've seen someone say they set theirs at 38F, though you can probably go warmer too. Going below 32 might get a bit dicey.
Also https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/perlick-forward-seal-faucet-vs-standard-chrome-faucets-59545/
After doing some wondering about the faucets, it seems that the perlicks might be better for casual use, but standard is better for constant use, (or constant use, cleaned and not used for a while per page 4)
***edit***
Seems that micromatic says the same thing about their faucets where it can be sticky if not used for a while (they say it just has to be cleaned which others say too) I think I'll use picnic taps for a while then eventually go for perlicks, unless I start having daily visitors.

Also, micromatic says 38 degrees is the target temperature, which is what I've seen in other locations as well. I suppose I'm mostly thinking of higher temperatures to use it as a lager location.

If you're doing wine though, those tend to have different temperature requirements. Some cool temperature for whites and a warmer temperature for reds (45-50F for white, 52-65F for reds) may mean that you might want to look at two separate temperature areas ( or more, depending on what your situation is) A big keezer holding 10 kegs at 38F might not be optimal at that point.
I suppose many variables exist. It's a cellar, so it would probably be cool enough to keep reds out of the keezer, and I don't see any problem leaving a red out and chilling a white that cold, especially if you're not planning on aging it for a long duration (You'd probably bottle them if you were doing that). Wine snobs would probably lynch me for saying that, but we're not talking about a 10 year old cabernet either.