Newbie Hello - Trying to make a clear and colourless high abv cider

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Pratik Mistry

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Hey, new here, been reading alot.

I'm going to get bashed for asking this but I'm trying to brew a high ABV - 15-16% cider then run it through a through some sort of filter to get to remove as much color, flavour and taste from it (yes u read that correct lol)

Planning on using a champagne yeast, and topping up with apple concentrate to get right sugar content.

Just not sure what my filtration plan is, looking at water filters but very open to hearing of any other methods people have used?
 

bmd2k1

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Curious.....why? What's ur endgame on this?
 
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Pratik Mistry

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Will use it as a base for mixers, not a fan of other clear spirits. Just thought I'd try it out see if it works
 

JP Smajda

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How clear is clear for you?
To the best of my knowledge, you are trying to brew something new. I can't think of any clear fermented beverage. My first thought is to get a high quality vodka, peal core and slice a lot of apples and let them soak for like three months. Then filter that through a cheese cloth. Let is settle then rack that and send it through a brita filter. That will probably get you something down to 25%-30% if you start with a 40% vodka.
 
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Pratik Mistry

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How clear is clear for you?
To the best of my knowledge, you are trying to brew something new. I can't think of any clear fermented beverage. My first thought is to get a high quality vodka, peal core and slice a lot of apples and let them soak for like three months. Then filter that through a cheese cloth. Let is settle then rack that and send it through a brita filter. That will probably get you something down to 25%-30% if you start with a 40% vodka.
Clear for me is (as close to a a vodka or gin as possible, so both clarity and color).

I'm thinking of a multi step filtration process, ending with a 0.02 micron water filter. I just dont know how much ABV i would lose and what the color and taste would be, think i may just need to try it


Trying to keep the base as natural & simple. Looking at initial gravity 1.11 to .990
 

CKuhns

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Kind of reverse what I try to do but... here is what I would try. Use the suggestions below at your own risk. I have not attempted this.

Frozen Apple Juice Concentrate or premixed store bought apple juice. Mixed just like you would to drink it. Add sugar to your target gravity. Hit it with nutrients like fermaid-O and use EC1118 or some other champagne yeast near the top end of its temp range, release CO2 2 to 4 times daily for 3 to 4 days. Clarify by racking, cold crashing and using KC Super Kleer then filter using a gravity feed or pump filter apparatus.

The yeast, temp, CO2 release and nutrients will chew through the sugars pretty quickly blowing a lot of the flavor out the airlock and hopefully not produce too much off flavors from stressed yeast. Cold crash, racking and KC allows you to filter starting with a 5, 1 and .02 micron in order without plugging them up too much. The .02 filter will strip more of the color and flavor and you wont have to worry about yeast and most bacteria to restart a ferment if some sugar is left over (very unlikely) as they will be removed with the filters.

I really dont think you will get a neutral drink as it will retain some color and flavor from the apple juice. Short of distilling it this is about the best I can come up with. (DISCLAIMER for our legal eagles - Distilling is illegal in the US for anyone not licensed to do so at any volume.)
 

CKuhns

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Sorry re-read your post after my notes above.

Filtering will not impact alcohol content enough to measure.
 
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Pratik Mistry

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Kind of reverse what I try to do but... here is what I would try. Use the suggestions below at your own risk. I have not attempted this.

Frozen Apple Juice Concentrate or premixed store bought apple juice. Mixed just like you would to drink it. Add sugar to your target gravity. Hit it with nutrients like fermaid-O and use EC1118 or some other champagne yeast near the top end of its temp range, release CO2 2 to 4 times daily for 3 to 4 days. Clarify by racking, cold crashing and using KC Super Kleer then filter using a gravity feed or pump filter apparatus.

The yeast, temp, CO2 release and nutrients will chew through the sugars pretty quickly blowing a lot of the flavor out the airlock and hopefully not produce too much off flavors from stressed yeast. Cold crash, racking and KC allows you to filter starting with a 5, 1 and .02 micron in order without plugging them up too much. The .02 filter will strip more of the color and flavor and you wont have to worry about yeast and most bacteria to restart a ferment if some sugar is left over (very unlikely) as they will be removed with the filters.

I really dont think you will get a neutral drink as it will retain some color and flavor from the apple juice. Short of distilling it this is about the best I can come up with. (DISCLAIMER for our legal eagles - Distilling is illegal in the US for anyone not licensed to do so at any volume.)
Thanks for this, has given me some things to think about.

What does releasing C02 do (over and above what is already released through the airlock)? Does it make the yeast work harder?
 
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Seamonkey84

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If you want it to be flavorless, why bother with cider? I’d just use sugar and nutrients following tosna or BOMM protocol. Degassing during fermentation releases the excess co2, so it’ll reduce stress on the yeast. The co2 is a waste product from the yeast, they don’t like swimming around in it.
 

khannon

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You could also "concentrate" it after the fact so instead of trying to make something high ABV and stressing the yeast/getting potential off flavors, ferment something a little lower, stick in a plastic 2 liter bottle and chuck it in the freezer, shake it every so often, and once you have good water crystals, drain the other liquid(higher percent alcohol).
 

CKuhns

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Sorry for the delayed reply.

Releasing CO2 and perhaps adding a little air keeps your yeast healthy. During the early part of fermentation (aerobic phase) they need the air to reproduce and CO2can stress them producing off flavors. At about 1/3 sugar break they go to anaerobic and although still bud and reproduce really go more to making alcohol. Air at this point is not necessary or good.
 

Bobby_M

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This sounds like you are a minor without access to spirits or otherwise in a alcohol restricted situation.

Assuming you are not a minor...

There is no reason to start with apples over plain sugar unless you get the apples for free. Even then, the amount of work to get rid of the color and flavor is unrealistic. Plain sugar, yeast and yeast nutrient will make a neutral clear alcoholic thing.
 
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