Newbie--Fermentation/Conditioning Questions

[Justin P.]

Hello everyone. I just bought a Grainfather and decided to jump right in with an all grain brew. I found a Pseudo Sue clone recipe on Grainfather's website, and felt that the entire process went smoothly. My OG (1.052) and FG (1.010) were almost exactly as expected. After chilling and transferring to my fermenting bucket, I aerated the wort and pitched the yeast (Imperial Flagship). The airlock bubbled consistently for about a week, then slowed considerably. After ten days in the primary (and after dry hoping for a few days), I racked to the bottling bucket. It has only been eight days after bottling, but I'm terribly impatient and gave one of the bottles a taste test. It was very yeasty. My plan is to wait another week or two, then try another.

The day after I bottled, I brewed a Pliny the Elder clone. It's now in primary. My plan is to wait for two weeks, then rack to a secondary fermenter and start the 12 day dry hop. After bottling, I'm guessing I'll wait two weeks to try it.

I've read a bunch of threads online, and most of the information is conflicting. From what I've gathered, ales take about 7-10 days to complete the fermentation process, but leaving it alone for at least another week will help remove a lot of the off flavors. Also, most threads say to condition in bottles for at least two weeks. Of course, there are a bunch of people out there that say "Leave it in for 3-4 months. Why not?" Well, it's because I don't want to wait that long. My questions are as follows:

1) What's the minimum fermentation and bottling time that I should even consider for pale ales?
2) Should I do secondary fermentation?

Your help would be greatly appreciated!!

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

Welcome to the hobby and the forum. Yes, the fermentation finishes then the brewers say the “yeast clean up” after themselves. Some people rush the process, and one doesn’t really want to let beer sit too long once fermentation is done. I’d like to invite you to think about that bottle conditioning as a mini fermentation. Once completed the yeast again “clean up”. You may crack one open to see how things are going after a week and indeed find it carbonated, but it may not be at the height of flavor.

Check the gravity, once it is stable you know fermentation is done. If it is stable but you are higher than expected, look at your process the fermentation may be stuck.

I have some small coronita bottles that I use as testers. Cheers! You made beer!

 

[Jag75]

You will love the GF . It's a really nice vessel. I'm a 3 week brewer. After I pitch I leave for about 3 weeks before I keg or bottle. Patience is as important as cleanliness imo. You can taste a beer 7 days in the fermenter and then 21 and theres a difference. After you bottle say 2-3 weeks place one in the fridge for 24hrs then taste . Most dont pour the whole bottle in their glass, leave the sediment in the bottle.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I've read a bunch of threads online, and most of the information is conflicting.

The information may also be style specific and/or brewer specific.

Nothing wrong with gathering up ideas, just be prepared take measurements of the your beer to make sure you get the desired results (avoid bottle bombs, ...).

2) Should I do secondary fermentation?

For most people, there's nothing wrong with leaving the beer in the "primary" fermenter for the duration of fermentation.

Good yeast handling practices and an understanding of off flavors from yeast autolysis will help you make an informed decision on whether or not you need to transfer the beer off the yeast.

 

[HB_ATL73]

1) What's the minimum fermentation and bottling time that I should even consider for pale ales?
2) Should I do secondary fermentation?

1.) As @Hoppy2bmerry mentioned you can check the gravity to assess whether its done. I stay away from this process- I'd rather not waste any beer or expose it to oxygen. Any beer (ale) under 1.060 and with a good yeast pitch SHOULD ferment out within 2 weeks.
I used to rush primary fermentation being too eager to try my beer as soon as possible- this will never result in the best beer possible and certainly not how you intended it to come out. I typically leave in primary 2-3 weeks and then keg. I've found most are optimal 3-4 weeks after kegging. For your case I would say the same- 3-4 weeks in the bottle you will see that the beer will no longer have those young/green/yeasty characteristics and will begin to clear nicely. As others have stated you can test out bottles weekly and see how it is changing.

2.) Many do not secondary unless brewing higher ABV beers that need time off yeast cake to age. The risk for oxygen exposure and infection is not worth using secondary for most beers.

 

[Justin P.]

2.) Many do not secondary unless brewing higher ABV beers that need time off yeast cake to age. The risk for oxygen exposure and infection is not worth using secondary for most beers.

Thanks for the info. So, for my Pliny 12-day dry hop, I'm assuming I should just dry hop in the primary? Per John Palmer, " The best way to utilize dry hopping is to put the hops in a secondary fermenter, after the beer has been racked away from the trub and can sit a couple of weeks before bottling, allowing the volatile oils to diffuse into the beer." Again, I'm new to this and have no idea, so your help is appreciated.

 

[balrog]

There is unfortunately no way to answer (1). Yeast as a living organism will do what it does, how it does it, when it does it, on its own schedule, depending on pitch amount, temperature, handling, O2, nutrients, the will of Mother Earth, and your current running total of Universe Karmic points.

If it tastes "yeasty", let it sit. A lot of that flavor will settle out as the beer conditions. Some yeasts (WY1007) stay in suspension much longer than others.

 

[Justin P.]

Good yeast handling practices and an understanding of off flavors from yeast autolysis

What are the good yeast handling practices? I sanitized the Imperial bag and ripped it open as instructed.

Also, I have little-to-no understanding of off flavors from yeast autolysis. My only understanding is if you don't ferment/condition long enough, it will taste green/yeasty.

 

[HB_ATL73]

Thanks for the info. So, for my Pliny 12-day dry hop, I'm assuming I should just dry hop in the primary? Per John Palmer, " The best way to utilize dry hopping is to put the hops in a secondary fermenter, after the beer has been racked away from the trub and can sit a couple of weeks before bottling, allowing the volatile oils to diffuse into the beer." Again, I'm new to this and have no idea, so your help is appreciated.

There are certainly varying sentiments on "best" practice- those you will find in books such as John Palmer's and those you will find here on forums/other internet sites that are based more on experience/discussion/community trends. Whats the right answer? there is no right answer other than what works for you and creates great beer you love to drink.

You can dry hop in the primary with great results. Depending on the amount of hops (which Pliny will have plenty) you may want to consider using a bag/cartridge to make your life easier when bottling.

As I stated before many people don't use secondary, even to dry hop, because it adds one additional transfer of the beer risking potential off flavors through O2 or infection. That is the reason I don't do it but don't let that stop you from experimenting

 

[HB_ATL73]

@Justin P. This wasn't your question but let me add an additional point for learning. There are numerous discussions on optimal dry hopping methods/time- Search to the manner of "how long is too long to dry hop" "How many days should I dry hop" and see what you find

Some would say 12 days dry hopping is overkill, others say its ok. I'm not trying to make this more daunting for you- over time you will see what methods work best for you

 

[Moose_MI]

If I understood your post you said it and only been 8 days since bottling. That means you were probably drinking a beer that was still processing the priming sugar and you drank it after a couple short hrs of it being in the fridge just long enough to get cold-ish.
I got my best results after a min of 2 weeks of carbing and 1 week of cold crashing in the fridge.

 

[Justin P.]

Some would say 12 days dry hopping is overkill, others say its ok.

From what I've read, for Pliny, specifically, the 12-day dry hop is what RR does. I'll give it a shot.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

What are the good yeast handling practices?

Starting out, How to Brew, 4e is a good resource for questions like this. Be aware that howtobrew.com is based on the first edition of the book, which was written in 1999. A lot has changed since then.

Per John Palmer, " The best way to utilize dry hopping is to put the hops in a secondary fermenter, after the beer has been racked away from the trub and can sit a couple of weeks before bottling, allowing the volatile oils to diffuse into the beer."

Appears to be a quote from the last paragraph (of How to Brew, 1e, 1999) on this page http://howtobrew.com/book/section-1/hops/how-are-they-used .

Topic: Ask the Experts: John Palmer, March 15, 2013, contains some newer information.

 

[Justin P.]

Starting out, How to Brew, 4e is a good resource for questions like this. Be aware that howtobrew.com is based on the first edition of the book, which was written in 1999. A lot has changed since then.

Appears to be a quote from the last paragraph (of How to Brew, 1e, 1999) on this page http://howtobrew.com/book/section-1/hops/how-are-they-used .

Topic: Ask the Experts: John Palmer, March 15, 2013, contains some newer information.

Thank you!!