I have been distilling for about 3 years but just sugar wash. I started doing fruit but get no alcohol from my run or get no flavor. I don't know what yeast to use if I can get some help here it would be get and thank you in advance
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- Thread starter wegleston
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Can you give a detailed description of how you are trying to create a fruit based wash, starting with what type(s) of fruit and what form (juice, whole fruit, etc.) all the way thru fermentation and what and how much yeast and nutrients you use?
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mashpaddled
Well-Known Member
Fruit needs the sugars expressed out of the cells before they will ferment, unlike sugar washes. Also keep in mind that it takes a lot more fruit to get the same amount of sugar as unloading table sugar into a wash. Fruit generally needs to be crushed to break up the fruit and as fermentation continues the fruit will continue to break down.
I am using 5 gallons of water 30lb of peaches 5lb sugar heating to 140° let set for an hour adding in 12 more gallons of water to bring temp down to 90° using ec118 yeast 4 packets in a 15 gallons fermenter for 14 days i only got a shot glass of liquid after distillingCan you give a detailed description of how you are trying to create a fruit based wash, starting with what type(s) of fruit and what form (juice, whole fruit, etc.) all the way thru fermentation and what and how much yeast and nutrients you use?
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Thank you for the information maybe I need more fruit any help with yeast for making brandy i really like making the sugar wash and want to expand the craft what is a good fruit to start learning with that has good flavor i live in az so I do get lots of fruit and have a fruit market place i can buy quantity again thank you for all the help I do appreciate it
Peaches are about 8% sugar by weight, so your 30 lb of peaches only contributes about 2.4 lb of sugar. If you didn't crush the peaches, not all of that sugar may be available. At best you have 7.4 lb of total sugar added to 17 gal of water which weighs 17 gal * 8.33 lb/gal = 141.6 lb. Peaches are about 88.9% water, so your peaches add about 26.7 lb of water, for a total water content of 168.3 lb of water. The °Plato of your wash would then be:
°P = 100°P * 7.4 lb / (7.4 lb + 168.3 lb) = 4.2 °P ==> SG = 1.016 - 1.017, which is pretty low.
Each lb of sugar can be fermented into 0.538 lb of ethanol, so your total potential ethanol = 7.4 * 0.538 = 3.98 lb. The specific gravity of ethanol = 0.791, so the potential volume of ethanol is 3.98 lb / (8.33 lb/gal * 0.791) = 0.6 gal. The ABW of your wash is max 3.98 / (3.98 + 168.3) = 2.31%. ABV = ABW / 0.8 (at low ethanol concentrations), so the ABV of your wash is only about 2.31 / 0.8 = ~2.9% at best.
Your wash has very low ethanol content, so you would need to distill very carefully to get much spirit output. Can you give us as much detail as you can about your distillation equipment and process.Brew on
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I have a 15 gallons keg still with a 2 foot copper column going into my worm i use a gas propane burnerPeaches are about 8% sugar by weight, so your 30 lb of peaches only contributes about 2.4 lb of sugar. If you didn't crush the peaches, not all of that sugar may be available. At best you have 7.4 lb of total sugar added to 17 gal of water which weighs 17 gal * 8.33 lb/gal = 141.6 lb. Peaches are about 88.9% water, so your peaches add about 26.7 lb of water, for a total water content of 168.3 lb of water. The °Plato of your wash would then be:
°P = 100°P * 7.4 lb / (7.4 lb + 168.3 lb) = 4.2 °P ==> SG = 1.016 - 1.017, which is pretty low.Each lb of sugar can be fermented into 0.538 lb of ethanol, so your total potential ethanol = 7.4 * 0.538 = 3.98 lb. The specific gravity of ethanol = 0.791, so the potential volume of ethanol is 3.98 lb / (8.33 lb/gal * 0.791) = 0.6 gal. The ABW of your wash is max 3.98 / (3.98 + 168.3) = 2.31%. ABV = ABW / 0.8 (at low ethanol concentrations), so the ABV of your wash is only about 2.31 / 0.8 = ~2.9% at best.
Your wash has very low ethanol content, so you would need to distill very carefully to get much spirit output. Can you give us as much detail as you can about your distillation equipment and process.
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mashpaddled
Well-Known Member
Peaches make a nice brandy although you need a lot of peaches to make a little brandy. There's several distilleries around western Colorado that make great peach brandies. Store bought apples can also make a decent apple brandy. @doug293cz is doing the hard work for us here showing how much fruit it takes to make a decent amount of alcohol.
If you can buy more peaches, maybe makes sense to buy more peaches and keep building up your current wash. Peaches are easy to work with because they are soft and you can mash by hand.
Apples have a higher sugar content but you need to do a lot more processing to break up the fruit. If you have a lot of freezer space you can freeze them in plastic bags and then mash them. Otherwise you need to crush them or, if you're a glutton for punishment, run them through a grater. Store bought apple juice or cider (even the concentrate in the freezer) is an easier starting point to work with fruit because it requires no processing.
You can get away with bumping up the sugar content a little with table sugar but keep in mind the more sugar you add the less flavor you will get by comparison.
Keep in mind as well that distilling fruit washes is different from a sugar wash where you're after the cleaning ethanol possible. With fruit distillations you need to capture some of the later heads where the most intense fruit flavor is hiding.
Thank for the information I am looking for some good starter mash recipes grain or fruit I am really interested in get better at this craft and keep this home distilling a thing
For grain recipes, you can just use strong beer recipes, but make sure to leave out the hops.
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Do you have any temperature monitoring in your system, and if so, where are the temp probes located? Is your column packed or not? Does any steam come out of your condenser worm while you are distilling? Can you grab and hold the exit end of the condenser worm 10 minutes or more after product has started coming out?
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Yes i have a thermometer and I start cooling around 120° column is not packed no i ise iced water for colling no steam out from the condenser condenser exit stays coldDo you have any temperature monitoring in your system, and if so, where are the temp probes located? Is your column packed or not? Does any steam come out of your condenser worm while you are distilling? Can you grab and hold the exit end of the condenser worm 10 minutes or more after product has started coming out?
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Thank you I will see what I can find i appreciate all the helpFor grain recipes, you can just use strong beer recipes, but make sure to leave out the hops.
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Where is your temperature probe located? What type of temperature sensor is it (RTC, thermocouple, thermistor, or integrated circuit), and how have you calibrated it?
A temp probe in the boiler gives you very different information than a temp probe at the entrance to the condenser. And at low ethanol concentrations temp errors of even 1° are significant (would have to get into the details of the ethanol-water phase diagram to explain why this is so.)
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My temp probe is located on my column. And it is analog, I don't know how well I trust it. Should I be using a better temp probe? I want to thank you very much for all your help. Would be nice if you lived in Arizona would really like to get some hands-on experience with somebody that knows what's going on.Where is your temperature probe located? What type of temperature sensor is it (RTC, thermocouple, thermistor, or integrated circuit), and how have you calibrated it?
A temp probe in the boiler gives you very different information than a temp probe at the entrance to the condenser. And at low ethanol concentrations temp errors of even 1° are significant (would have to get into the details of the ethanol-water phase diagram to explain why this is so.)
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My temperature probe is located in my column. It is an analog probe. I don't know how much I trust it.
It's about half way up the column is start cooling around 120° and i run till it hits 210°Top or bottom of column, or somewhere in between?
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Top of column, at condenser entrance, would be better. At this position you can make some inferences about how much ethanol is in the vapor entering the condenser, and thus what will come out of the exit.
Have you checked what temp your probe reads when placed in boiling water? Also, what is the elevation of your home (this will affect water's boiling temp if you are at more than a few hundred feet of elevation.
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IAmPistolPete
Active Member
Doug & MashPaddled are keying in on very pertinent specifics but bottom line for hobby sized distilling it takes large concentrated musts to extract enough alcohol AND flavor for a brandy. Other options are using a thumper & putting fruit in the thump, or making a sugar wash then macerating fruit in the distillate [yes I know -not a true brandy]. Check out https://homedistiller.org/forum/ for a ton of great info on all things hobby distilling plus tested recipes for washes, mashes, musts.
No I have not checked my probe to see what boiling point is at, and as far as elevation of my house compared to sea level I do not knowTop of column, at condenser entrance, would be better. At this position you can make some inferences about how much ethanol is in the vapor entering the condenser, and thus what will come out of the exit.
Have you checked what temp your probe reads when placed in boiling water? Also, what is the elevation of your home (this will affect water's boiling temp if you are at more than a few hundred feet of elevation.
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I am mashing in fruit 15 gallons fermenter no thumper thank you for the website I will check it out
If you have Google Earth on your computer, you can just put the cursor over you home, and it will tell you your elevation.
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I will look into it. My is the elevation important can you explainIf you have Google Earth on your computer, you can just put the cursor over you home, and it will tell you your elevation.
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Barometric pressure drops with increasing altitude, and boiling point drops with decreasing pressure. So, at higher elevations, water boils at less than 212°F. For example, at 1000 ft of elevation, water boils at 210.1°F (ref.) You need to know this if you want to do an accurate calibration of your thermometer using boiling water.
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So my elevation at my place is 2344.2 feet. And thank for the information. So my water temp at my elevation would be somewhere about 200° is that corretBarometric pressure drops with increasing altitude, and boiling point drops with decreasing pressure. So, at higher elevations, water boils at less than 212°F. For example, at 1000 ft of elevation, water boils at 210.1°F (ref.) You need to know this if you want to do an accurate calibration of your thermometer using boiling water.
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From the link in my previous post:
At 2344 ft elevation, the boiling point of water will be 207.4° - 207.5°F (calculated via linear interpolation of values in blue box.)
I'm assuming the 2344 value is from the "elev" value, not the "eye alt" value.
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At 2344 ft elevation, the boiling point of water will be 207.4° - 207.5°F (calculated via linear interpolation of values in blue box.)
I'm assuming the 2344 value is from the "elev" value, not the "eye alt" value.
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Yes, I got. The elevation for my home off Google Maps I looked at your chart. I am way off as far as boiling point for water when I am running my mash.From the link in my previous post:
View attachment 862211
At 2344 ft elevation, the boiling point of water will be 207.4° - 207.5°F (calculated via linear interpolation of values in blue box.)
I'm assuming the 2344 value is from the "elev" value, not the "eye alt" value.
View attachment 862212
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With me running my mash to 210 I am getting a lot of water but not only that I am starting to cool my papers way late as well my thermometer allows for calibration. I will have to calibrate my thermometer so that I have more of a true reading.
I want to thank you and really appreciate all the help I feel with your help I can begin to start making some better shine i am learning a lot thank you again
I
I don't know all the questions to ask. But definitely could use any information that may be helpful to me. Something on different yeasts.From the link in my previous post:
View attachment 862211
At 2344 ft elevation, the boiling point of water will be 207.4° - 207.5°F (calculated via linear interpolation of values in blue box.)
I'm assuming the 2344 value is from the "elev" value, not the "eye alt" value.
View attachment 862212
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Maybe where I can find some tried and true mash bills. Any help I can get would be appreciated like I begin. I am new to the craft and really would like to hone in on some good skills and knowledge.I'll take this to the next level and not just run sugar wash
Any beverage with alcohol in it, beer, wine, hard cider, mead, etc. can be distilled into a spirit. Since your column is not packed, what you have is essentially a pot still. Pot stills allow some of the characteristic flavors in the starting beverage to carry over into the distilled spirit. Pot stills also produce less concentrated alcohol than a packed column or plate still (which basically perform multiple distillations in a single pass thru the still.)
So, start with an alcoholic beverage of choice, based on the type of flavors you want in the spirit. If you want to start from basic ingredients, then get a recipe for beer, wine, cider, mead, etc. and make that first, and then distill it. If working with a beer precursor, then you want to brew the beer without hops, as hop flavors can carry over into the spirit, and many people find the residual hop flavors objectionable in whiskeys (but you can distill beer with hops if you want to.) There are a lot of recipes in the HBT recipe database, and there are even more on the wide world of the internet. The distilling site linked earlier in this thread will likely have some recipes for washes specifically made for distilling, and there are tons of YouTube videos about distilling.
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So, start with an alcoholic beverage of choice, based on the type of flavors you want in the spirit. If you want to start from basic ingredients, then get a recipe for beer, wine, cider, mead, etc. and make that first, and then distill it. If working with a beer precursor, then you want to brew the beer without hops, as hop flavors can carry over into the spirit, and many people find the residual hop flavors objectionable in whiskeys (but you can distill beer with hops if you want to.) There are a lot of recipes in the HBT recipe database, and there are even more on the wide world of the internet. The distilling site linked earlier in this thread will likely have some recipes for washes specifically made for distilling, and there are tons of YouTube videos about distilling.
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If you want to ferment your own starting washes, you should get a hydrometer to check the specific gravity (SG) of the pre-fermentation liquid. If it's too low, you won't get much alcohol in the fermented wash, and if it's too high, the yeast may die before they finish fermenting all of the sugar. Wine yeasts or distillers' yeasts generally have higher alcohol tolerance than do beer yeasts. Starting SGs would typically be in the range of 1.050 to 1.150, with higher SGs resulting in more alcohol in the wash.
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Thank you for the information. I have been looking up some beer recipes without hops. I do have a hydrometer, but it is just for checking proof not specific gravity.I need to buy oneIf you want to ferment your own starting washes, you should get a hydrometer to check the specific gravity (SG) of the pre-fermentation liquid. If it's too low, you won't get much alcohol in the fermented wash, and if it's too high, the yeast may die before they finish fermenting all of the sugar. Wine yeasts or distillers' yeasts generally have higher alcohol tolerance than do beer yeasts. Starting SGs would typically be in the range of 1.050 to 1.150, with higher SGs resulting in more alcohol in the wash.
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I have looked online and on YouTube. Get some basic information but most of them. One do not let you know what type of yeast they are using and also are not very specific on amounts of ingredients more.You just say a specific type of fruit. sugar and just say yeast so all your help with temperature reading and fruit to sugar conversation is help fullAny beverage with alcohol in it, beer, wine, hard cider, mead, etc. can be distilled into a spirit. Since your column is not packed, what you have is essentially a pot still. Pot stills allow some of the characteristic flavors in the starting beverage to carry over into the distilled spirit. Pot stills also produce less concentrated alcohol than a packed column or plate still (which basically perform multiple distillations in a single pass thru the still.)
So, start with an alcoholic beverage of choice, based on the type of flavors you want in the spirit. If you want to start from basic ingredients, then get a recipe for beer, wine, cider, mead, etc. and make that first, and then distill it. If working with a beer precursor, then you want to brew the beer without hops, as hop flavors can carry over into the spirit, and many people find the residual hop flavors objectionable in whiskeys (but you can distill beer with hops if you want to.) There are a lot of recipes in the HBT recipe database, and there are even more on the wide world of the internet. The distilling site linked earlier in this thread will likely have some recipes for washes specifically made for distilling, and there are tons of YouTube videos about distilling.
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I had a question for you so I have been looking up some beer recipes and found some i would like to try but you were saying wine and distillers yeast have a higher alcohol capability but the recipes I found call for a ale yeast should I follow the recipe, or would it be better to use a distiller yeast? So I have higher alcohol for my distillationAny beverage with alcohol in it, beer, wine, hard cider, mead, etc. can be distilled into a spirit. Since your column is not packed, what you have is essentially a pot still. Pot stills allow some of the characteristic flavors in the starting beverage to carry over into the distilled spirit. Pot stills also produce less concentrated alcohol than a packed column or plate still (which basically perform multiple distillations in a single pass thru the still.)
So, start with an alcoholic beverage of choice, based on the type of flavors you want in the spirit. If you want to start from basic ingredients, then get a recipe for beer, wine, cider, mead, etc. and make that first, and then distill it. If working with a beer precursor, then you want to brew the beer without hops, as hop flavors can carry over into the spirit, and many people find the residual hop flavors objectionable in whiskeys (but you can distill beer with hops if you want to.) There are a lot of recipes in the HBT recipe database, and there are even more on the wide world of the internet. The distilling site linked earlier in this thread will likely have some recipes for washes specifically made for distilling, and there are tons of YouTube videos about distilling.
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If you follow the beer recipe, including the specified volumes, you will not have enough alcohol to bother the beer yeast. The maximum amount of alcohol is limited by the amount of sugar available in the wash. Beer recipes create lower sugar concentrations than wine or mead recipes. You only need high alcohol tolerance yeasts if you are starting with a high sugar concentration wash, which would be anything over about 1.100 SG.
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Thank youIf you follow the beer recipe, including the specified volumes, you will not have enough alcohol to bother the beer yeast. The maximum amount of alcohol is limited by the amount of sugar available in the wash. Beer recipes create lower sugar concentrations than wine or mead recipes. You only need high alcohol tolerance yeasts if you are starting with a high sugar concentration wash, which would be anything over about 1.100 SG.
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Hello there again I have a question for you about stalled fermentation I had a starting sg of 1.090 and in 7 days my finished sg was 1.020 can I do another starter yeast to get down to 1.000 or lower or should I just run itIf you follow the beer recipe, including the specified volumes, you will not have enough alcohol to bother the beer yeast. The maximum amount of alcohol is limited by the amount of sugar available in the wash. Beer recipes create lower sugar concentrations than wine or mead recipes. You only need high alcohol tolerance yeasts if you are starting with a high sugar concentration wash, which would be anything over about 1.100 SG.
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If it's a based on a beer recipe, it's probably as low as it's going to get with just yeast. You could try adding some amyloglucosidase enzyme (aka gluco-amylase, or gluco) to the fermenter (available from beer and distilling supply stores.) Amyloglucosidase will convert non-fermentable complex sugars into simple fermentable sugars, and can lower your FG (final gravity) to less than 1.000.
Typical beer recipes, without adding additional enzymes, usually finish higher than 1.000, 1.020 is a little high for an FG, but is quite possible if your mash conditions were sub-optimal for creating high fermenability wort.
If you can provide some details on your mashing process, weights, volumes, temperatures, and times, it could help diagnose why your SG finished on the high side.
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I i actually just did a sugar wash. I am still looking for some beer recipes. I am interested in mashing. So I started with 25 pounds of sugar, 15 gallons of water pitched my distiller's yeast at 95°. I check my sg for my fermenting at 7 days it it 9 days in now and sg has not dropped below 1.020If it's a based on a beer recipe, it's probably as low as it's going to get with just yeast. You could try adding some amyloglucosidase enzyme (aka gluco-amylase, or gluco) to the fermenter (available from beer and distilling supply stores.) Amyloglucosidase will convert non-fermentable complex sugars into simple fermentable sugars, and can lower your FG (final gravity) to less than 1.000.
Typical beer recipes, without adding additional enzymes, usually finish higher than 1.000, 1.020 is a little high for an FG, but is quite possible if your mash conditions were sub-optimal for creating high fermenability wort.
If you can provide some details on your mashing process, weights, volumes, temperatures, and times, it could help diagnose why your SG finished on the high side.
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Did you add any yeast nutrient? Sugar does not provide all of the nutrients required for yeast growth and health. If you did not add any, then your yeast probably got worn out and quit working. You can buy yeast nutrient products at beer, wine, and distilling supply stores. You can also just boil some yeast in water to kill it, and add it as a nutrient. If you buy nutrient products, the directions should tell you how much to use. For your current batch, you could add nutrient, and additional yeast, to get the fermentation restarted. A pure sugar wash should finish fermentation well below 1.000.
25 lb of sugar should produce 13.46 lb ethanol when fully fermented. Water has a density of 8.33 lb/gal @ 68°F, so 15 gal weighs 124.95 lb. Your final wash should be 100% * 13.46 / (13.46 + 124.95) = 9.7 wt% sugar, or 12.1% ABV. The SG would be about 0.984.
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