Newb needs feedback/help/insight

[jffrybauer]

Hey all:

My first post

Thanks in advance for sitting through this long post...not sure if this is the right forum, but hopefully it is...

So after lots of reasearch on this board and a couple of Brewers Best "kit" beers - which turned out alright IMHO, I'm looking to step out into an extract brew recipe with a few more steps (i.e. chiller and secondary) than the kits involved.

So I've built an IC chiller setup with a water recirculating system and settled on a Winter Warmer recipe with my own newb diy rig... Here's my recipe, schedule, and random thoughts...Please provide suggestions, feedback, thoughts, criticisms, ideas, best wishes...

This is for a 5 gallon boil:

9/26/08
Boil wort per recipe
Steep for 1 hr at 155 F:
1 lb Crystal Malt (60L)
½ lb dextrine malt
½ lb torrefied wheat
2 oz chocolate malt
2 oz roasted barley

Remove grain and add:
8 lbs Alexander’s Pale Malt Extract
2 lb buckwheat honey
1 ½ cup all natural molasses
2oz Challenger hops

Boil 1 hr – adding 1 oz Kent Goldings at 30 minutes, 1 oz Kent Goldings and 1 tsp Irish Moss at 55 minutes

15 minutes before end of boil, insert IC chiller (50’ x 3/8” coil) to sterilize
After boil, run tap water through chiller
Stir wort until it hits ~140 degrees
Output hot water to keg tub to use later for cleaning
Fill utility sink with water and ~30# of ice > drop in 300 GPH submergible pump
Fix hose from pump to input of chiller
Fix hose from output of chiller back into tub
Stir Ice water in tub
!!!Recirculate and save water!!! Yay

At 65 – 70 F, rack cooled wort into primary (glass carboy) fermentor
Pitch yeast (sterilize yeast jar in case of overflow)
Ferment for two weeks

10/10/08
Transfer to Secondary (plastic pale) fermentor
Sterilize spices - Microwave for 5 minutes - 5 cups water, 1 crushed nutmeg, 3 whole cloves, 2 whole cardamom, 3 cinnamon sticks
Add sterilized spices and + 1 oz Kent Goldings Hops to secondary, siphon wort from primary to secondary
Ferment for 4 weeks

11/7/08
Strain and Rack to bottling bucket (plastic)
Boil ¾ cup priming sugar in 2 cups water for 5 minutes
Add to bottling bucket
Strain and rack from secondary to bottling bucket and bottle
Bottling:
576 oz = 5 gallons
12@ 16 oz bottles = 192 - Pesonal use
12@ 22 oz bottles = 264 - Personal and gift
10@ 12 oz bottles = 120 - Gift

Bottle condition for minimum 2 weeks

11/21/08
Chill and crack a cold one to sample {{{hopefully}}} a great brew

11/27
Give Thanks on Turkey Day and start gifting my brew to friends and family...

 

[FishinDave07]

I can't quite comment on the recipe because i've never done a winter warmer but the process looks good. I would go easy on the cloves and other spices for that matter. The more spices you have the longer it will take to mellow out. Most people that brew winter warmers brew them 5-6 months in advance so that the complex flavors mellow out, not sure how its going to work for you. I would get down to brewin' asap and may cut back on malt extract and honey, to be enjoying it this thanksgiving.

Here's a nice little tool to calculate things: The Beer Recipator 2.2

EDIT: And welcome to HBT!!!

 

[bull8042]

Same here having never done a winter warmer, so I can't help on the recipe. It looks as if you have been doing some planning. Mentally go through each step prior to getting started and you should be fine.
Good luck.

 

[jffrybauer]

Thanks for the feedback guys, and the Recipator link...very cool site.

I think I'll cut back on some of the ingredients as you mentioned.

 

[McGarnigle]

You're boiling the honey the full time? This won't give you much honey flavor. If you're copying that step from another recipe, then fine, I'll defer. But adding the honey late will preserve it's flavor.

 

[Fat Guy Brewing]

Do a search of this site for "Honey". You will find a few threads with very specific instructions not to boil the honey. Add it to the primary after a few days.

 

[Yooper]

I've never done a winter warmer, so I can't comment on that except to say that cinnamon and cloves are very strong, and you may want to think about using less to start with. You can always add more but can't remove it once it's in there.

What I can suggest, though, is adding some 2-row to your specialty grains. You're steeping for an hour, but if you are trying to do a partial mash, then you have to add some base grains. Torrified wheat should be mashed, but the other grains are steeping grains. 2.5 pounds of 2-row would cover it.

Now, when using torrified wheat, a protein rest is recommended. But I wouldn't worry about that at all- just go ahead and mash the grains as planned, with the addition of the 2-row.

 

[cuinrearview]

I've never done a winter warmer, so I can't comment on that except to say that cinnamon and cloves are very strong, and you may want to think about using less to start with. You can always add more but can't remove it once it's in there.

What I can suggest, though, is adding some 2-row to your specialty grains. You're steeping for an hour, but if you are trying to do a partial mash, then you have to add some base grains. Torrified wheat should be mashed, but the other grains are steeping grains. 2.5 pounds of 2-row would cover it.

Now, when using torrified wheat, a protein rest is recommended. But I wouldn't worry about that at all- just go ahead and mash the grains as planned, with the addition of the 2-row.

That's funny, I'm not an all grain brewer but thought the same thing. If you're going to steep that much malt, you may as well get some enzymatic conversion benefits from it. I'm still getting back in the swing of brewing, and have hit it pretty hard this year (12 batches since Mar.) and this recipe looks a bit busy for me. I would think that it will be a wonderful beer by next spring, but maybe it'll be fine by Nov. The biggest beer I've made since my re-birth to brewing has been a pretty simple ~7%ABV IPA. I've drank most of those within two months of brewing and loved them, but the bottles that I held for another month were even better. Beyond that, I can't help, but I would think something like what you have here would benefit from some extended aging.

Brew something less complicated on your schedule, with a lower abv and give it away just like you plan. Do a proven recipe, like one on here and whet some appetites with something delicious. At the same time do this recipe and save that until next year! Not only will you have a unique product you'll have a truly special gift(as if this year's batch won't be special enough).

Edit: Just read your original post again. Quickly chilling your wort and using a secondary will help almost any beer you make. You don't need to make a "giant" to reap benefits from these steps. I have this equipment and use it on all of the beers that I make except for the hefe-weizens don't go to secondary.

 

[jffrybauer]

been off the board for a while...but thanks again for all the responses...

I'm definitely gonna cut back on the spices...probably by about half each

McGarnigle, Fat Guy - I'll look into the honey question. The recipe calls for adding to the full boil, but I like the sound of adding later in the boil. Without any research, I'm nervous about adding to the primary, mostly for sanitation reasons, but maybe I'm overly anxious about that?

Yooper - for the torrefied and 2-row, do I need to do anything else for the mash besides mix them in with the other specialties during the steep? <--Newb question :cross:

cuinrearview - you read my mind. I will be brewing something more straight forward at the same time (haven't decided yet) so I have something to enjoy and something to wait for.

I would love to let it sit until next year, but knowing it's there I'll be drinking winter warmers in July After talking to my local homebrew shop guy I decided to extend the time frame:
brew day - 9/26
primary - 3 weeks (until about 10/17)
secondary - 8 weeks (bottle on 12/12)
Bottle condition - 2 weeks - sample and gift by Christmas, recommend all gifts wait until mid Jan - Feb before drinking.

 

[Ecnerwal]

Normally, if using a plastic pail, it's used for primary, and the glass carboy is used for secondary. I just use large and small glass carboys. It's about oxygen not getting through glass, and getting through plastic, and the length of time and amount of CO2 being produced at each stage.

You might cut secondary down to 3 (or 7) weeks so that your test brew has had 3 weeks in the bottle, not two.

You won't have 5 gallons at the end if you start with 5 gallons - racking twice is going to cost you a few bottles.

Otherwise looks good, if you have warm "cold" water and/or water is very expensive/scarce - otherwise just running with cold water from the tap, and using the output for plants, laundry, etc works fine with less fuss, no pump, and no ice. You can reduce chiller water use by running the chiller slowly enough that the water coming out of it is fairly hot.

Brew more beer to drink in july and have someone else hide this for you until next year.

 

[jffrybauer]

Thanks for the point about the plastic primary, I'll definitely make that adjustment until I can get around to buying a second carboy.

I also like the idea of a 7 week secondary and 3 week bottle before tasting.

Not to worried about the loss from racking, I'll just end up with a few less 12oz.

So if I do stash this away, you think it will be OK to sit bottled for a year?

 

[Ecnerwal]

It will be just fine in a year - It may be finer in 2 or 3, if you can manage that for at least part of the batch - I mean, heck yes, you want to try some at various points, but if the points are too frequent you'll never see how good it gets if it really ages.

I've got 12 year old mead that's great, and have had (I'm out now) beer 4-5 years old in bottles with nary a peep of "I'm too old" - it can happen, in theory, but in practice I've not seen it. BK has 9-10 year old beer, per another post on the subject, and has had batches get to "past their prime." It's not a matter of a fixed time, it varies with the recipe and the batch - a big beer like this should do nothing but get better for at least 5 years, IMHO. Just keep brewing more so at least some of it can age a while ;-)

Normally you also want more space in primary, so the krauesen has some room to play. A standard ale-pail is 6.5 gallons, the usual carboy is 5. I have a big carboy 6.5 or 7) for primary and 3 smaller (5) ones for secondaries, though I may have to retire one of those due to cracking, which is the one big downside of glass.

 

[jffrybauer]

both my pales (bottling and fermenting) are 6.5, and my carboy is 6.5. I was planning on picking up 2 @ 5 gal carboys as secondaries.

This way I can actually brew 2 different batches at the same time. One batch in the 6.5 carboy and one in the 6.5 pale. Whichever batch needs less fermenting time will go in the pale, and then bottled or secondary as needed.
The longer fermentation batch will go in the 6.5 carboy, then bottled or secondary as needed.

Ecnerwal - any thoughts on how much I should actually boil. I've seen lots of recipes call for a 2-3 gallon boil, and add the remaining 2-3 gal to the carboy after cooling.

However, it seems that everything I read says to boil as much as possible and only add water if need be.

My brewpot is 6 gal, so I can boil 5, lose 1 over the course of boil, and only have to add one gallon (pre-boiled and cooled) to the fermentor.

 

[Bob]

I like the recipe as is. I don't think that amount of spice in five gallons is overpowering at all; in fact, I've made several well-received beers spiced similarly.

The only thing about your proposal that makes me twinge is that you're organizing it by the calendar instead of by what your beer tells you to do. Do yourself a favor and rid yourself of that hideously bad habit now, before it bites you in the ass (it will).

If you haven't got one, go out and buy a hydrometer. Learn how to use it and learn how to interpret what it tells you.

Some say brewing is an art. Some say it's a science. Neither are wrong, because the concepts aren't mutually exclusive. Use of your hydrometer is one area of brewing where science keeps bad things from happening to your art.

Let your hydrometer tell you when to transfer the beer from the primary to the clearing vessel: when the ferment is finished, you can move it. Not before. No matter what the calendar says!

Cheers,

Bob

 

[jffrybauer]

Thanks Bob. My date's aren't really penned in to my calendar, I should have noted that they were rough dates.

I do in fact have a hyrometer and have every intention of checking it twice or thrice before racking to the secondary.

As for the spices, I'm a little nervous now because I've gotten feedback here and from other sources that suggest I should cut down.

Maybe I'll use 2/3 of what the recipe originally called for.

Also, as far as the honey goes does anyone have any input on when to add? I've read to add during boil (towards the end I assume), at flame out and directly to the primary. Options two and three seem that I would possibly be compromising my wort with "unsanitized" honey.

Any thoughts?

 

[Ecnerwal]

Honey does not need to be "sanitized" in my experience, and my experience includes a fair amount of mead.

I'd wait and add it a day or two after the kreuzen falls, but do what you like.

If you feel that you must heat it, take it to 165F, which should kill most wild things, but not be overly detrimental to the flavor.

 

[GearBeer]

I thought I'd chime in, since I brewed a variant of this yesterday. I did a partial mash, as suggested.
My changes are in green.

Mash for 1.5 hrs at 155 F:
1 lb Crystal Malt (60L)
½ lb Dextrine Malt
½ lb Carmalized Wheat
2 oz Chocolate Malt
2 oz Roasted Barley
2.5 lbs 2-Row

1 hour Boil:
1 oz Northern Brewer hops (60 mins)
1 oz Northern Brewer hops (45 mins)
1 oz Kent Golding hops (30 mins)
8 lbs Alexander’s Pale Malt Extract (20-10 mins)
1 oz Kent Golding hops (15 mins)
1 ½ cup all natural Molasses (10 mins)

Chilled and Pitched on a barleywine yeast cake (Wyeast 1272 American II). I used Northern Brewer hops and Carmalized Wheat because my LHBS was out of Challenger hops and Torrefied Wheat. I didn't use the honey... well because I didn't. I thought the evenly spaced hop schedule might add some complexity to the beer, we'll see. I'm still undecided about the spices but I have some time to decide that.

The OG was ~1.088 (just over 22% Brix). That was what prompted me to use the barleywine yeast cake, since I was racking that beaut the same day.

 

[jffrybauer]

GearBeer - looks like we'll both be drinking well this winter...I went with BobNQ3X and the recipe, and didn't alter the original spices at all. Going balls to the wall with that and hoping it turns out well. I'm also going to bottle with the molasses instead of adding to the boil...fingers crossed about that.

Just for an update on the whole process:

I subbed bramling cross for the challenger due to availability, added honey to the full 60 min boil (per recipe)

My OG was 1.06 @ 77 F, which I guess is adjusted to about 1.062 at 60?
I transferred to secondary about two weeks ago, had a Gravity of 1.014 @ 70 F. In the secondary, I added 2 crushed nutmeg, 3 whole (crushed) cloves, 2 whole cardamom, 3 cinnamon sticks, 1 oz Kent Goldings.

I plan on leaving in the secondary for 2-4 more weeks, then bottling with the molasses.

Gear - I guess your higher OG was due to adding the malt later in the boil? (I added to the full 60 min boil) ***Please correct me if I'm wrong, total newb and trying to understand how different methods effect the end result

I think I'm going with "Winter Wonderland" for the name, now I need a graphic for the label...

Thanks to everyone for all the input. Looks like I've been bitten by the homebrew bug...

 

[GearBeer]

jffrybauer,

Sorry I missed this. My higher OG was probably due to my fake partial mash ("steeping" the two row). Adding the extract later won't affect the OG, but it will lighten the color.

Mine fermented down to 1.017 FG. Just to make a little correction here, my yeast was WLP099 high gravity, not Wyeast 1272.

I brewed a Pumpkin Porter that was intended for the Thanksgiving time period, but I don't think it will make it that long (I'm guessing I've got ~1 gallon left in my corny ). That beer was spiced with 2 tsp of McCormick Pumpkin Pie spice and its actually a little strong for me, so I decided to step down the spices on this batch and go with 1 tsp cinnamon (just using what I have instead of purchasing sticks), 1 tsp cardamom and 1 clove (and the Kent Goldings, of course). This will be a baseline for a recurring brew, so some nutmeg or orange peel might get added in the future.

Hope your brew turns out great!