New Zealand Pilsner / IPL crossover

[TandemTails]

When I was in New Zealand back in 2019 I was drinking a ton of NZ style pilsners. I really loved the crisp lager qualities mixed with the flavor and aroma of the hops. I still have several ounces of four different NZ hops in the freezer and was looking to create something similar to what I was drinking while in NZ, although maybe pushing it more into IPL territory.

The inspiration from this recipe came from two other recipes I've brewed... a hazy pale ale brewed with these same hops and a 100% mosaic IPL.

I've already made some adjustments to this after some feedback from a friend and fellow brewer, but I'm looking to see if there are any other obvious flaws I'm not seeing.

The full recipe can be found here: Brewfather

The highlights are:

Grain bill
* 95.2% Mecca Grade Pilsner malt
* 4.8% Carafoam

Target mash temp - 149'F

Hops
* 0.3oz Kohatu @ 60 - 5 ibu
* 0.3oz Motueka @ 60 - 5 ibu
* 1oz Kohatu - 20 minute hopstand at 175'F - 3 ibu
* 1oz Motueka - 20 minute hopstand at 175'F - 4 ibu
* 1oz Rakau - 20 minute hopstand at 175'F - 5 ibu
* 1oz Waimea - 20 minute hopstand at 175'F - 8 ibu
* 1oz Kohatu - dry hop for 3 days
* 1oz Motueka - dry hop for 3 days
* 1oz Rakau - dry hop for 3 days
* 1oz Waimea - dry hop for 3 days

Water
* 8.59 gallons RO water
* 1.4g Calcium Chloride added to mash water
* 3.2g Gypsum added to mash water
* 1tsp phosphoric acid (10%) added to mash water

Yeast - 34/70 using the "quick lager" method at Brulosophy Lager Method

If anyone has any thoughts, I'd love to hear them!

 

[RCope]

I've made a few NZ Pilsners and I see nothing wrong with your recipe or your additions. If I was making that beer, I'd get my 10 ibu's at the top of the boil with Magnum or Warrior, and add that half oz of NZ hops at 10 or 5 min. For me, short boil additions add some depth to the hop expression, but it's a subtle thing. And at 30 ibu's, you can gain a bit more without making it overly bitter, especially if you're targeting IPL territory. That's all I got. And it will be a winner either way . Cheers!

 

[AlexKay]

Looks good. Kudos for not messing around with 40 or 20 or 10 or 0-minute additions, and just going right to the hopstand (and, of course, the dry hop). I usually do my hopstands at 165 F; not sure it makes a difference either way.

It's not a lot of gypsum. What sulfate levels are you going for here? I've taken my IPAs as high as 300 ppm, and I don't know that I'd claim that was the way to go, but under 100 seems too low.

Finally, and I'm not trying to be jerky here, but I can't for the life of me tell a difference when more than two aroma hops get into the mix. (Sometimes I can't taste anything but the most assertive hop in the mix: Sabro or Simcoe or Something.) So I'm asking honestly ... does anybody else feel that four (or more!) really adds new tastes? That said, I also don't see that it really hurts anything to have a mix in there...

 

[TandemTails]

Looks good. Kudos for not messing around with 40 or 20 or 10 or 0-minute additions, and just going right to the hopstand (and, of course, the dry hop). I usually do my hopstands at 165 F; not sure it makes a difference either way.

It's not a lot of gypsum. What sulfate levels are you going for here? I've taken my IPAs as high as 300 ppm, and I don't know that I'd claim that was the way to go, but under 100 seems too low.

Finally, and I'm not trying to be jerky here, but I can't for the life of me tell a difference when more than two aroma hops get into the mix. (Sometimes I can't taste anything but the most assertive hop in the mix: Sabro or Simcoe or Something.) So I'm asking honestly ... does anybody else feel that four (or more!) really adds new tastes? That said, I also don't see that it really hurts anything to have a mix in there...

I usually don't overload the number of hops, but I got this as a 4pack through Yakima Valley and figured I'd use them all up. They all worked well together in the NZ Hazy I made, so figured they'd work well in this too.

As far as the gypsum goes, I had it a little higher but was looking more into the water profiles for NZ pilsners and they had a lot less mineral additions than other beers.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I usually don't overload the number of hops, but I got this as a 4pack through Yakima Valley and figured I'd use them all up. They all worked well together in the NZ Hazy I made, so figured they'd work well in this too.

As far as the gypsum goes, I had it a little higher but was looking more into the water profiles for NZ pilsners and they had a lot less mineral additions than other beers.

You're wise to not jack up the sulfate on a pilsner. There's not any malt backbone or ABV sweetness to cut it if you overdo it, which is especially easy to do if you're hopping the beer like crazy with high alpha NZ/Aussie hops. I use pretty soft water for my pilsners and NEIPAs and they turn out great. I made a NZ pilsner with nelson hops awhile back which was fantastic. Had 50 calculated IBUs but wasn't overly bitter because of the soft water. Just right

On actual IPAs, especially ones you're going for the west coast or fairly bitter style, yeah you need to get it up(that's what she said) in order to get the perceived bitterness you want