New to water chemistry

[nesbit6363]

This will be the first time I will be making adjustments to my water. I used a water test kit to get the following report from my house water;

Chloride- 50ppm
Sulfate- 5ppm
Alkalinity- 48ppm HCO3
CaCO3- 60ppm
Calcium- 40ppm
Magnesium- 20ppm
Sodium- 26ppm
PH- 7.0


I’m going to be brewing a pale ale:
8lb pale 2 row
1lb Munich
1lb crystal 10L
.5lb Carapils

I used BeerSmith’s water adjustment page and by adding 8g of gypsum I got the following water profile, does this look ok for a pale ale?

 

[Gnomebrewer]

That profile looks quite reasonable for a pale ale. You'll still need some acid to adjust the pH though - there's a bit of alkalinity in there that needs countering, especially in your sparge.

 

[nesbit6363]

Thanks Gnomebrewer, it’s going to be a single vessel biab. I was going to add the gypsum to my water and take a ph reading and add some lactic acid accordingly.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Thanks Gnomebrewer, it’s going to be a single vessel biab. I was going to add the gypsum to my water and take a ph reading and add some lactic acid accordingly.

Unfortunately the general consensus is to not do it that way. Basically, by the time you take a pH reading of the stabilised mash most of the mash is complete, so adding acid at that stage is of little benefit. Or did you mean take a pH reading of your water and add acid accordingly? In that case, you'll be in a reasonable range for mashing, but the grain bill you listed will still push the pH higher than ideal. Most brewers use a calculator like Mash Made Easy or Bru'n Water to get a pH estimate based on water and acid adjustments, then take a pH reading during the mash for future adjustments.

 

[myndflyte]

I'll second those thoughts. Depending on your crush, the majority of conversion can happen quickly so by the time you're done messing with pH, it may be too late. I just add acid to target a pH based on Bru'n Water and take notes to see where I actually ended up and adjust for next time.

 

[nesbit6363]

Ok thanks, I appreciate the response, I’m still trying to do research and learn about water. After getting my water report it makes sense that my darker beers always came out better then my pale ones due to the high PH. I’ll have to look at those calculators I didn’t see were I can add acid additions in BeerSmith.

 

[Miraculix]

That looks like a spot on neutral water, easily possible to change it in either direction for distinctive beer styles but also good to use as it is.

You are on the right track with the gypsum addition for hoppy pale beers. Cannot read the report file but would try to aim for about 100ppm so4.

1% of the weight of the grist as additional acidulated malt would be a quick and dirty way of dealing with the alkalinity. Maybe go with this advice and measure the pH after 15 minutes mashing time in a sample chilled to room temperature.

If the ph is within your preferred range you'll know that this works for you. Otherwise up or lower the amount of acidulated malt accordingly in your next brew.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I hate to be the harbinger of bad news here, but it appears that the mEq's of cations and anions are way out of balance for the OP's reported test kit measured analyticals, rendering them (in my book at least) highly impossible to all be correct as listed. I'll admit that I did not understand the inclusion of "CaCO3" within the list of analyticals, as it is not an ion as are all of the others, so to compute the mEq's of cations and anions I ignored it.

Short version: It appears that you do not actually know your waters analyticals yet.

 

[nesbit6363]

This was the first time using the kit I may have done something wrong, and I’m still trying to understand the chemistry. These are the notes I took when I did the test, please let me know if you think I made a mistake some were

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

If your total hardness (as CaCO3) is 60 then your ppm's of Ca++ and Mg++ must conform to:

60 ppm Total Hardness = 2.5*Ca + 4.12*Mg

If your Ca++ ions are "presumed" from 60 ppm total hardness to be at 16 ppm (whereas you informed us above that they were at 40 ppm), then:

60 = 2.5(16) + 4.12*Mg

Mg++ = 4.85 ppm

That puts your water report at more likely as follows:

Chloride- 50 ppm
Sulfate- 5 ppm
Alkalinity- 40 ppm
Calcium- 16 ppm
Magnesium- 4.9 ppm
Sodium- 26 ppm
PH- 6.9

For this the cations and anions are now in almost perfect balance.

EDIT: Your kit seems to merely presume that 2/3 of total hardness (as CaCO3) is due to calcium, and that (by default) 1/3 of total hardness (as CaCO3) is due to magnesium. This is a fair presumption perhaps, but it may also be that the ratio is 80/20 or 75/25 (or something/anything else summing to 100). When I'm guessing on the total hardness derived split for Ca/Mg I grab for either 75%/25% or (more recently) 80%/20%. But whichever ratio you choose, it's still only guessing.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

If you went with a total hardness split "guess" of 80/20 for Ca and Mg, then:

0.8 x 60 = 48
2.5*Ca = 48
Ca = 19.2 ppm

0.2 x 60 = 12
4.12*Mg = 12
Mg = 2.9 ppm

 

[nesbit6363]

Thank you silver is money I think I see what I did wrong. I still have a lot to learn on water. I appreciate you taking time to answer. It seems like when I think I’m starting to get a grasp on on I just end up confusing myself more.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Thank you silver is money I think I see what I did wrong. I still have a lot to learn on water. I appreciate you taking time to answer. It seems like when I think I’m starting to get a grasp on on I just end up confusing myself more.

That's why 'Ward Lab' is a safe bet. Send them a plastic bottle with your water in it and $27.25 along with it, and request a W-5A brewing water analysis, and they will do all of the work for you (far more precisely than a kit). Include your email address, and they will email you their analytical report.

https://www.wardlab.com/download/WardLabs_FeeSchedule_Web.pdf

The only confusion with a Ward Labs report is that you will be given SO4 reported as SO4-S, so you will need to multiply SO4-S by 3 to get SO4.

For example: If they say SO4-S = 5.1 ppm, then SO4 actually equals 15.3 ppm.

 

[ajdelange]

It's not entirely clear to me exactly what he did but it appears that the kit measures total hardness and calcium hardness and estimates magnesium hardness as the difference between the two. Entirely kosher unless he lives in one of those few places where strontium is high and/or has unusually high Mn and Fe levels.

It further seems that he is estimating sodium by taking the difference between hardness (mEq/L) and alkalinity (mEq/L), subtracting off sulfate and chloride and assuming the imbalance is due to sodium. The balance is, by definition, perfect though the individual numbers may be out of whack especially as it is impossible to measure sulfate accurately without a nephelometer or photometer.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I just noticed that if you opt for the Ward Labs 'W-6' test it will only cost $21. The only thing of significance left out for that case (vs the brewing water W-5A test) is the iron analysis.

If you get nasty orange stains on porcelain toilets/sinks/showers/tubs, and/or if you smell even a hint of hydrogen sulfide (rotten eggs) in your "pre-softener" well water you need to get the W-5A test (since this smell is associated with iron and the action of bacteria). If not, save yourself $6.25 and ask for the 'W-6' test.

 

[ajdelange]

It's easy to test for iron qualitatively. Thoroughly aerate a sample of your water. If it turns grey or yellow or brown iron (and/or manganese) are present. A color change is indicative of a lot of iron. If it does not turn color filter a half liter or so through some paper towel. A yellow, orange or black stain on the towel is indicative of iron (and/or manganese).

 

[ajdelange]

The only confusion with a Ward Labs report is that you will be given SO4 reported as SO4-S, so you will need to multiply SO4-S by 3 to get SO4.

Nitrate is also given as nitrogen: NO3-N