New to electric brewing, need help with control panel(s)

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javajoe1981

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I actually posted on another thread but have since decided that I want to go ahead and run a 50a/120v/240v to my brewing area. I am currently undergoing a lot of brewery upgrades and just converted from cooler HLT & mash tun to a 3 keggle system. I am looking to put together a control panel for the system, however, I want to do this in two stages. I want to start with a simple control panel for the HLT only and then work on the full panel that I can take my time on. Wouldn't mind some help in finding some wiring diagrams for both of these. :D

1st simple panel
6500w element for the HLT
PID - Inkbird 106vh
main power switch
1 temp probe
DROK 200123 Digital Multimeter

Final panel
(see sloppy sketch)
3 way switch for heating elements with lights
2 6500w elements
3 PIDs (HLT, Mash, Boil)
2 pumps w/ switches & lights
DROK 200123 Digital Multimeter
Main power switch
3 alarm switches (still debating if needed)
1 alarm buzzer
3 temp probes

I may have missed something but any help would be greatly appreciated!!

1661405106436.png
 
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javajoe1981

javajoe1981

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Here's my favorite design for a one element, one pump control panel suitable for up to a 6500W element. This design includes a "Safe Start" interlock that prevents the main power from being turned on if either the pump or element switch is on. This can avoid some nasty surprises when powering up.

View attachment 725973

Brew on :mug:

@doug293cz - I did find this post on here which looks like a good start for the 1st step version, I could just drop the pump or add my 2nd pump to this, but any changes required for a 50a circuit?
 

doug293cz

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@doug293cz - I did find this post on here which looks like a good start for the 1st step version, I could just drop the pump or add my 2nd pump to this, but any changes required for a 50a circuit?
What do you want to run from your 50A circuit, with a modified version of this single element design? Since 30A will handle a 6500 W element, you could just add a 30A breaker on the front end of this panel to protect the internal wiring.

And why do you think you need 6500 W elements rather than the more commonly used 5500 W? When you get to your two element system, you can run two 5500 W elements simultaneously, but not two 6500W elements, on a 50A circuit. I highly recommend using the tri-clamp mounted elements, with integral L6-30 plugs, and I don't know if those are available in 6500 W.

Brew on :mug:
 
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javajoe1981

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Thanks for the response @doug293cz

This is the 6500w element with 1.5" tri clamp I was planning on using

I wasn't sure if the 30amp would really be able to handle the 6500w element (6500w/240v=27amps - is that too close?). I also figured that if I ever have a need to run both elements at once I can just swap out for the 5500w ones.

As far as what I would like to run, I assume you mean for the 1st design? Probably just the single element and maybe switches for the 2 pumps, all the other components I would like can be incorporated in the final design
 
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javajoe1981

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or are you saying that I can basically just use that diagram as is (with or without the pumps) and just go through a 30amp breaker. If I go this route would I need to have a 50amp rated cable from the control box to the 50amp panel or could it be rated for 30amps?
 

doug293cz

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or are you saying that I can basically just use that diagram as is (with or without the pumps) and just go through a 30amp breaker. If I go this route would I need to have a 50amp rated cable from the control box to the 50amp panel or could it be rated for 30amps?
Using a 30A (10AWG) power cord with a 30A breaker in the control panel poses very little risk, especially if you have a GFCI breaker in the service panel. The 30A breaker in the control panel will protect the power cord from over current conditions caused by load faults, and the GFCI will protect against failures of the power cord itself, except for a hot to hot short in the power cord. With the power cord not buried in a wall, there is essentially no chance that the internally shorted power cord could start a fire before the 50A main breaker tripped. Appliances with power cords rated for less current than the supply circuit are routinely used.

Brew on :mug:
 
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javajoe1981

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Could you theoretically use a gfci 30a breaker in the panel and then just a standard 50a in the service? or not advised?
 

doug293cz

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Thanks for the response @doug293cz

This is the 6500w element with 1.5" tri clamp I was planning on using

I wasn't sure if the 30amp would really be able to handle the 6500w element (6500w/240v=27amps - is that too close?). I also figured that if I ever have a need to run both elements at once I can just swap out for the 5500w ones.

As far as what I would like to run, I assume you mean for the 1st design? Probably just the single element and maybe switches for the 2 pumps, all the other components I would like can be incorporated in the final design
I hadn't seen those elements previously. Nice to know they are available.

Swapping 6500W for 5500W elements to allow simultaneous operation isn't really and option, as the control panel should be designed such that it only allows a single element at a time to be enabled if two 6500W elements are to be used with a 50A supply. When using 5500W, or lower, rated elements, you can design the control panel to allow both elements to be enabled at the same time. A fundamental axiom to keep in mind when designing a system is: "If the system will allow a particular mistake to be made, that mistake will eventually be made" (no matter how careful the operators try to be.)

Brew on :mug:
 
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javajoe1981

javajoe1981

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I hadn't seen those elements previously. Nice to know they are available.

Swapping 6500W for 5500W elements to allow simultaneous operation isn't really and option, as the control panel should be designed such that it only allows a single element at a time to be enabled if two 6500W elements are to be used with a 50A supply. When using 5500W, or lower, rated elements, you can design the control panel to allow both elements to be enabled at the same time. A fundamental axiom to keep in mind when designing a system is: "If the system will allow a particular mistake to be made, that mistake will eventually be made" (no matter how careful the operators try to be.)

Brew on :mug:
Lol, valid point! I will plan on only one element at a time and if the upgrade should come along i will redesign the panel and eliminate the 6500w elements
 
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javajoe1981

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Not advised. It's better than no GFCI, but you really want the GFCI as far upstream as possible.

Brew on :mug:
understood, I was planning on the 50amp gfci on the main service, so I will stick with that

is it okay to wire a 50 amp plug on the 30amp cord? or is it better to wire it with a 30am plug and use an adapter?
Or better to just put a 30a outlet instead of the 50?

sorry for the stupid questions, but really appreciate the help!!

also do you have a wiring diagram for the final panel I am looking to create? I am sure it is on the forum somewhere already
 

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If you don't plan to run a two concurrent element system, there's no reason to do 50amp anything. Stick with a 30amp GFCI breaker in the main panel, run 10/3 Romex (4 total conductors). You don't really need any breakers in the brewing panel then.

The Inkbird PID, and all other generic PIDs, do the job just fine but one of the reasons these panels are packed with buzzers and timers is that PIDs don't have them built in. If you use the Auber DSPR-120 instead of a PID, you can skip an external timer, alarm buzzer, alarm buzzer bypass switch in the final build and you can have all those functions from day one as soon as you put the first control module in. That all aside, the DSPR-120 is a very clever gadget for just a little more money. Most notably, I want to emphasize, the built in timers can affect the operations automatically. For example, the mash timer ending can result in the power turning off. Same thing with the boil timer. Those are operations that an external timer module can also do, but the circuit wiring in a PIA.

The last thing I have for now is that 5500 watts is more than enough for a 5/10 gallon batch system. I highly recommend buying the element from me because the Dernord ones are not epoxy potted in the electrical connection area and having sold these types of elements for 6 years, I know how prone to breakage the blades are without it. The worst part is that it's usually the ground prong that breaks free and then you start potentially making good use of that GFCI protection.

Using the Auber Brew Buddy controller as a basic template is a good idea. The Brew Buddy I Control Panel for HERMS (240V 30A 7200W) [BB300H] - $1,399.00 : Auber Instruments, Inc., Temperature control solutions for home and industry

1661522281591.png




I find the beeper alarms built into the DSPR modules to be plenty loud if you're in the same room so you can skip the external unit and then the alarm bypass switch goes away. The other slick thing about this panel is the use of the center module which is just a dual input temperature display module SYL-2802B.



If the slow roll into building is budget related, keep in mind that you can save quite a bit by hard wiring the element cables into the box by running them through cord grips. It eliminates the need for panel mount receptacles and the mating male plug.
 
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doug293cz

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understood, I was planning on the 50amp gfci on the main service, so I will stick with that

is it okay to wire a 50 amp plug on the 30amp cord? or is it better to wire it with a 30am plug and use an adapter?

sorry for the stupid questions, but really appreciate the help!!

also do you have a wiring diagram for the final panel I am looking to create? I am sure it is on the forum somewhere already
50A plug on a 30A load does not present a safety risk. A 30A plug on a 50A load would present a risk.

Here are a couple of designs that show the difference between how a panel that allows two elements powered at once vs. a panel that only allows one element powered at a time.

Single element at a time:

HERMS for Video -Improved Safe Start.PNG


Two elements simultaneously:

KKBrew-corrected.PNG


These are both designs that use older technology PIDs, rather than the preferred Auber DSPRs. The first has a third PID just for monitoring MLT temperature, but again Auber has a better option for that now than using PID.

If you have any questions about what's in the designs, just ask.

Brew on :mug:
 

doug293cz

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If you don't plan to run a two concurrent element system, there's no reason to do 50amp anything. Stick with a 30amp GFCI breaker in the main panel, run 10/3 Romex (4 total conductors). You don't really need any breakers in the brewing panel then.

The Inkbird PID, and all other generic PIDs, do the job just fine but one of the reasons these panels are packed with buzzers and timers is that PIDs don't have them built in. If you use the Auber DSPR-120 instead of a PID, you can skip an external timer, alarm buzzer, alarm buzzer bypass switch in the final build and you can have all those functions from day one as soon as you put the first control module in. That all aside, the DSPR-120 is a very clever gadget for just a little more money. Most notably, I want to emphasize, the built in timers can affect the operations automatically. For example, the mash timer ending can result in the power turning off. Same thing with the boil timer. Those are operations that an external timer module can also do, but the circuit wiring in a PIA.

The last thing I have for now is that 5500 watts is more than enough for a 5/10 gallon batch system. I highly recommend buying the element from me because the Dernord ones are not epoxy potted in the electrical connection area and having sold these types of elements for 6 years, I know how prone to breakage the blades are without it. The worst part is that it's usually the ground prong that breaks free and then you start potentially making good use of that GFCI protection.

Using the Auber Brew Buddy controller as a basic template is a good idea. The Brew Buddy I Control Panel for HERMS (240V 30A 7200W) [BB300H] - $1,399.00 : Auber Instruments, Inc., Temperature control solutions for home and industry

View attachment 778911



I find the beeper alarms built into the DSPR modules to be plenty loud if you're in the same room so you can skip the external unit and then the alarm bypass switch goes away. The other slick thing about this panel is the use of the center module which is just a dual input temperature display module SYL-2802B.



If the slow roll into building is budget related, keep in mind that you can save quite a bit by hard wiring the element cables into the box by running them through cord grips. It eliminates the need for panel mount receptacles and the mating male plug.
Excellent advice. Bobby knows his stuff.

Brew on :mug:
 
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javajoe1981

javajoe1981

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If you don't plan to run a two concurrent element system, there's no reason to do 50amp anything. Stick with a 30amp GFCI breaker in the main panel, run 10/3 Romex (4 total conductors). You don't really need any breakers in the brewing panel then.
This is why I kept going back and forth between the two options... maybe I will just save the money and go back to 30A circuit, back to Home Depot! lol

The Inkbird PID, and all other generic PIDs, do the job just fine but one of the reasons these panels are packed with buzzers and timers is that PIDs don't have them built in. If you use the Auber DSPR-120 instead of a PID, you can skip an external timer, alarm buzzer, alarm buzzer bypass switch in the final build and you can have all those functions from day one as soon as you put the first control module in. That all aside, the DSPR-120 is a very clever gadget for just a little more money. Most notably, I want to emphasize, the built in timers can affect the operations automatically. For example, the mash timer ending can result in the power turning off. Same thing with the boil timer. Those are operations that an external timer module can also do, but the circuit wiring in a PIA.
Okay, these DSPR-120's are awesome, I didn't realize these had both Mash & Boil mode controls. Definitely seems worth the small additional cost. I was planning on using the inkbird PID originally.

The last thing I have for now is that 5500 watts is more than enough for a 5/10 gallon batch system. I highly recommend buying the element from me because the Dernord ones are not epoxy potted in the electrical connection area and having sold these types of elements for 6 years, I know how prone to breakage the blades are without it. The worst part is that it's usually the ground prong that breaks free and then you start potentially making good use of that GFCI protection.
How much faster would a 6500w element heat 10g of water compared to the 5500w elements? I know I saw a formula of some sort but can't seem to find it now. I was originally planning on buying those from your site, but then found the 6500w elements and bigger is always better, right? ;)

This is exactly what I am looking for regarding the panel layout and features!

If the slow roll into building is budget related, keep in mind that you can save quite a bit by hard wiring the element cables into the box by running them through cord grips. It eliminates the need for panel mount receptacles and the mating male plug.
The main reason for the initial panel was to get the HLT up and running as soon as possible (but cost of course does play a part in it as well) and then I could still use gas for the boil while I built the full panel. I used a 2000w submersible heating element as a start but it was horrendous. Raising HLT from 149 to 168 for mashout took way too long. I am brewing tomorrow and thinking I may just have to heat water in BK on gas and transfer to HLT to help raise temp to mashout and sparge

Thanks for the great advice here, very much appreciated!!!
 
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javajoe1981

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50A plug on a 30A load does not present a safety risk. A 30A plug on a 50A load would present a risk.

Here are a couple of designs that show the difference between how a panel that allows two elements powered at once vs. a panel that only allows one element powered at a time.

Single element at a time:

View attachment 778928

Two elements simultaneously:

View attachment 778929

These are both designs that use older technology PIDs, rather than the preferred Auber DSPRs. The first has a third PID just for monitoring MLT temperature, but again Auber has a better option for that now than using PID.

If you have any questions about what's in the designs, just ask.

Brew on :mug:
This is great, thank you!

I assume the wiring doesn't change if using the DSPR120's/SYL-2802B?
 

doug293cz

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This is great, thank you!

I assume the wiring doesn't change if using the DSPR120's/SYL-2802B?
The terminal assignments are different for the SSR control outputs on the SYL-2352 vs. the DSPR-120 or DSPR-3x0, but these DSPR's are all the same, except for the extra relay/alarm outputs on the DSPR-3x0s. The SYL-2802B has power and one of the temp sensors in the same place as the others, but it has a second set of temp input terminal, no SSR control outputs, and two sets of relay/alarm outputs.

Other than the terminal differences on the PIDs/DSPRs/Temp Monitors, all other wiring remains the same.

Brew on :mug:
 

doug293cz

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How beneficial is it to have the pump switches with auto-off-on?
Having an "Auto" switch option for the pumps requires that you have some additional control logic that controls the pumps. This could be done with the relay/alarm outputs of the DSPR-3x0 series, or the relay/alarm outputs of the SYL-2802B, but you have to figure out how you want the auto functions to work (time or temp based on DSPR-3x0s, or temp based on 2802B.) If you don't have that added control logic, the "Auto" pump option doesn't (can't) do anything.

Brew on :mug:
 
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javajoe1981

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Having an "Auto" switch option for the pumps requires that you have some additional control logic that controls the pumps. This could be done with the relay/alarm outputs of the DSPR-3x0 series, or the relay/alarm outputs of the SYL-2802B, but you have to figure out how you want the auto functions to work (time or temp based on DSPR-3x0s, or temp based on 2802B.) If you don't have that added control logic, the "Auto" pump option doesn't (can't) do anything.

Brew on :mug:
Okay, good to know, just doesn't really seem like a "must have" feature. I assume it would probably make step mashing easier by regulating the mash temp with the pump while allowing the HLT to heat up to the next step temp, which might provide faster ramping up to next step.
 

doug293cz

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I assume it would probably make step mashing easier by regulating the mash temp with the pump while allowing the HLT to heat up to the next step temp, which might provide faster ramping up to next step.
It would definitely complicate things, and I wouldn't want to abuse my pump by subjecting it to rapid on-off cycles. If you want to control pump output automatically, best to use a servo motor controlled throttle valve, or a speed controller for the pump motor (but make sure the pump motor and speed controller are compatible.) And I think the benefit would be minimal as far as speeding up step time. It would be simpler just to shut the pump off for the last 10-15 minutes of a mash step while you heat up the HLT water for the next step, as you won't lose much temp in the mash over that time. Or, even simpler, just start heating for the next step a bit earlier - precise step temp control, and rapid step transitions aren't really all that important anyway (all the enzymes we care about work over temp ranges, not a specific temperatures.)

If you want faster stepping, you would probably be better off adding a RIMS tube.

Also, if you are thinking about automated step mashing, you should be looking at the DSPR-320 controller.

Brew on :mug:
 
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javajoe1981

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It would definitely complicate things, and I wouldn't want to abuse my pump by subjecting it to rapid on-off cycles. If you want to control pump output automatically, best to use a servo motor controlled throttle valve, or a speed controller for the pump motor (but make sure the pump motor and speed controller are compatible.) And I think the benefit would be minimal as far as speeding up step time. It would be simpler just to shut the pump off for the last 10-15 minutes of a mash step while you heat up the HLT water for the next step, as you won't lose much temp in the mash over that time. Or, even simpler, just start heating for the next step a bit earlier - precise step temp control, and rapid step transitions aren't really all that important anyway (all the enzymes we care about work over temp ranges, not a specific temperatures.)

If you want faster stepping, you would probably be better off adding a RIMS tube.

Also, if you are thinking about automated step mashing, you should be looking at the DSPR-320 controller.

Brew on :mug:
Yeah, that's okay, I can do without it lol, I've just seen it on panels and wondered if it was worth it to have it. Sounds like not worth the trouble
 

doug293cz

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Yeah, that's okay, I can do without it lol, I've just seen it on panels and wondered if it was worth it to have it. Sounds like not worth the trouble
Some control panels are designed so that they can be controlled with either manual switching, or a computer controller (such as BruControl.) In these cases, you need a way to tell the panel who is in charge.

Brew on :mug:
 
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javajoe1981

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@doug293cz are these lamps somewhat of a user preference selection? Use the power enabled lamp wiring if you want the lamp to light if that element is selected and the firing lamp only if you want the lamp to light up if the element has power based on the PID telling it to fire? I don't see many panels that have both versions of this lamp

1661589129286.png
 

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Well, think of what you want to know at any given time and put lamps in to achieve it. When you have a panel where a selector switch determines which element MAY fire, I sure would want to know which it is. This helps to prevent dry firing an element. I see both the "enabled" and "firing" lights to be very helpful. Even with my single element panel, I still use both.

I use lighted push button switches, but that really doesn't work well for an "element-select" switch though because it wouldn't tell you which element is enabled. You can use lighted switches or push buttons for the pump switches though. I also like using the combo volt/amp meter as the main panel on indicator because why not.

1661614814630.png
 
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javajoe1981

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Well, think of what you want to know at any given time and put lamps in to achieve it. When you have a panel where a selector switch determines which element MAY fire, I sure would want to know which it is. This helps to prevent dry firing an element. I see both the "enabled" and "firing" lights to be very helpful. Even with my single element panel, I still use both.

I use lighted push button switches, but that really doesn't work well for an "element-select" switch though because it wouldn't tell you which element is enabled. You can use lighted switches or push buttons for the pump switches though. I also like using the combo volt/amp meter as the main panel on indicator because why not.

View attachment 779047
Good points, I'll have to think about that one.

That small digital power light and meter is awesome, haven't seen that one yet
 

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@doug293cz are these lamps somewhat of a user preference selection? Use the power enabled lamp wiring if you want the lamp to light if that element is selected and the firing lamp only if you want the lamp to light up if the element has power based on the PID telling it to fire? I don't see many panels that have both versions of this lamp

View attachment 779021
@Bobby_M did a pretty good job of answering this. But I'll go a little deeper into the "Element Firing Lamp" rationale.

The "Out" LED on your PID/DSPR only tells you that the unit thinks it is telling the SSR to turn on or off, not that the unit is actually sending a usable signal to the SSR. The LED on the SSR (that you can't see when the control panel is operating anyway) only tells you that the SSR is receiving a "turn on" signal from the PID/DSPR, not that the SSR has actually switched on or off. One of the most common failure modes for control panels is an SSR getting stuck in the "ON" mode (latched, which can be temporary due to overheating, or permanent), so that it is delivering power to the element no matter what the PID/DSPR is telling the SSR to do. An Element Firing indicator tells you what is actually happening with power to the element. It will tell you that the SSR has latched, before something worse happens, or tell you that power is not being delivered when you think it should be. I highly recommend including both Element Enabled and Element Firing indicators in all designs. Note that if you do panel testing without the element (or some other load) connected to the controller, the Element Firing indicator will light up. This is due to leakage current thru the SSR, and is normal.

I don't usually include a "Power On" indicator lamp in my designs because the PIDs/DSPRs, and any volt/amp meters, light up when the power is on. A separate lamp just provides redundant information.

Brew on :mug:
 
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javajoe1981

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@Bobby_M did a pretty good job of answering this. But I'll go a little deeper into the "Element Firing Lamp" rationale.

The "Out" LED on your PID/DSPR only tells you that the unit thinks it is telling the SSR to turn on or off, not that the unit is actually sending a usable signal to the SSR. The LED on the SSR (that you can't see when the control panel is operating anyway) only tells you that the SSR is receiving a "turn on" signal from the PID/DSPR, not that the SSR has actually switched on or off. One of the most common failure modes for control panels is an SSR getting stuck in the "ON" mode (latched, which can be temporary due to overheating, or permanent), so that it is delivering power to the element no matter what the PID/DSPR is telling the SSR to do. An Element Firing indicator tells you what is actually happening with power to the element. It will tell you that the SSR has latched, before something worse happens, or tell you that power is not being delivered when you think it should be. I highly recommend including both Element Enabled and Element Firing indicators in all designs. Note that if you do panel testing without the element (or some other load) connected to the controller, the Element Firing indicator will light up. This is due to leakage current thru the SSR, and is normal.

I don't usually include a "Power On" indicator lamp in my designs because the PIDs/DSPRs, and any volt/amp meters, light up when the power is on. A separate lamp just provides redundant information.

Brew on :mug:
Do you have a panel showing how you implemented both of these lights into the design?
 

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Do you have a panel showing how you implemented both of these lights into the design?
Both of the designs in this post implement "Element Enabled" indicators and "Element Firing" indicators. The first design uses a three way switch to enable only one, or none, of the elements at a time. Since a lighted three way switch doesn't give you enough useful information, this design uses discrete lamps wired in parallel with the element enable contactor coils. The second design allows both elements to be enabled at the same time using a separate switch for each element enable contactor. In this case the indicator lamps are embedded in the switches (saves panel space, and holes.)

Brew on :mug:
 
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javajoe1981

javajoe1981

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Both of the designs in this post implement "Element Enabled" indicators and "Element Firing" indicators. The first design uses a three way switch to enable only one, or none, of the elements at a time. Since a lighted three way switch doesn't give you enough useful information, this design uses discrete lamps wired in parallel with the element enable contactor coils. The second design allows both elements to be enabled at the same time using a separate switch for each element enable contactor. In this case the indicator lamps are embedded in the switches (saves panel space, and holes.)

Brew on :mug:
I get that part of the wiring diagram, I just meant more visually on the actual front door panel how these lights would look or where they would be put, if that makes sense.
 

doug293cz

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I get that part of the wiring diagram, I just meant more visually on the actual front door panel how these lights would look or where they would be put, if that makes sense.
Most of my designs have been done for other people, and I have not built those panels. Front of panel layout is up to the builder, but you usually want to group related switches and indicators in proximity to each other. You can get ideas by looking at control panels offered by Auber Instruments, The Electric Brewery, Electric Brewing Supply, etc.

Brew on :mug:
 
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javajoe1981

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Most of my designs have been done for other people, and I have not built those panels. Front of panel layout is up to the builder, but you usually want to group related switches and indicators in proximity to each other. You can get ideas by looking at control panels offered by Auber Instruments, The Electric Brewery, Electric Brewing Supply, etc.

Brew on :mug:
Understood, I guess that's why I was asking, because I have seen most of those and generally see the "element on" light typically but not an "enabled" light.
 

doug293cz

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Understood, I guess that's why I was asking, because I have seen most of those and generally see the "element on" light typically but not an "enabled" light.
"Element On" can mean Element Enabled or Element Firing. It's ambiguous, and you can't tell just by looking at the front of the panel, just what the indicator light means.

Brew on :mug:
 

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I would like to see someone come out with an LED indicator that shares both yellow and red internal LEDs so that they can be both "ready" and "firing" in one package. Generally you'd see the orange right above the red stacked both on the left and right. So, lined up vertically on each side of the panel would be yellow, red, and a blue (where the blue is an actual lighted switch or push button. The element select switch can go in the middle, and the main key switch and "panel on" indicator. Honestly the main power/panel on indicator is a bit frivolous because all the controller modules lighting up is a pretty good indication that it's on.
 

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How much faster would a 6500w element heat 10g of water compared to the 5500w elements? I know I saw a formula of some sort but can't seem to find it now. I was originally planning on buying those from your site, but then found the 6500w elements and bigger is always better, right? ;)

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Not exactly a staggering difference.

5500w + two pumps can run on a 30 amp and use 10 gauge wire.
6500 + two pumps requires 40 amps and 8 gauge wire.
 
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Understood, I guess that's why I was asking, because I have seen most of those and generally see the "element on" light typically but not an "enabled" light.
Here’s one I did from Doug’s design. The element firing indicator is the green light in the bottom right. The blue ones a pump and red is element. Enabled.
 

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