New To AG

[brooks56]

I've been brewing extract beers for the last couple of years and now I want to up my game. SWMBO completely supports my brewing and I think that AG equipment will be my Christmas present this year. That being said, I'd like to know a couple of things. 1) What equipment is "required" to make 5 gallon batches? I don't mind buying all new equipment for what is needed, as my current setup for extract is a little small anyways. My kettle isn't the best kettle in the world so I may replace that anyways. 2) What are some things that are just nice to have. Thanks in advance.

Dave

 

[slym2none]

A 10-gallon )at least) pot, and a BIAB bag are all that's really required to brew 5 gallons of beer at a time. I am assuming you already have things like thermometers, hydrometers, etc., from your extract days.

I'll let the more experienced people chime in with the other methods & the equipment that entails, as well as all the bells & whistles.

 

[TheCADJockey]

It depends if you want to go BIAB or not. I was doing partial mash recipes for a while when my family tried to surprise me with some new equipment by getting me an Igloo MT. All of a sudden, I was buying a propane burner and 16 gallon kettle and brewing outside. If you want to go that route, that is my suggestion. Igloo MT, a big ass kettle and a propane burner. You can get it all on Amazon at really affordable prices. I got the Bayou Classic kettle and burner. If you'd like links, I'll edit them in.

Since Slym suggested the 10 gallon pot, I'll just add that it isn't too much of an investment to go a little bigger. It's easier to grow into a larger kettle than to decide you want to make bigger batches and have to replace it later.

 

[brooks56]

I've already have a burner that will handle full boils. SWMBO kicked me out of the kitchen after the first brew. Not so much the mess but the stove didn't really have the BTUs do brew. Definitely need a new kettle. I do have thermometers, hydrometer, wort chiller, 5 gallon glass carboy secondary.

Honestly I don't know if I'd want to go the BIAB route or not. My gut is saying not go the BIAB route, but none of my brewing buddies do full grain so I don't really have a justification not to.

Definitely would like the links. How big of a kettle would you recommend?

So it looks like it's just the MT and a 10+ gallon kettle are a requirement.

Any nice to have items?

 

[TheCADJockey]

Any nice to have items?

This is what I have:

Bayou Classic 16 Gal Pot with Spigot and Vented Lid - ~$140.00

Igloo MT 10 Gal with False Bottom and Valve - ~$160.00

That should be all you really need. I loved BIAB when I was doing Partial Mash but now that this is my setup... I couldn't be happier. I've not once seen the Igloo lose a single degree during an hour mash even after stirring the hell out of it. It is one of my favorite pieces. As far as other nice items to have, AG isn't really that much different and it seems like you already have some nice toys. For another $40-$50 you can probably get versions of those two items that have built-in thermometers. Otherwise, this would suffice if it's the way you want to go. You could always make or buy yourself a custom mash paddle.

 

[thekraken]

As someone who's never BIABed there is nothing wrong with going that route.

 

[BigMack]

As others have said, you should be able to get rolling with nothing more than a pot large enough to do a full boil (I use a 10 gallon pot for my 5.5 gallon batches) and a MLT (if you're going the non BIAB route, which I absolutely would). I've been brewing with nothing more than my 10 gallon pot and my 10 gallon MLT with a false bottom since I switched to AG.

Also, totally agree that if you think you may bump up to 10 gallon batches at some point that you should go ahead and get a 15 gallon pot.

 

[brooks56]

Thanks everyone.

 

[ndinh]

Try to buy items that you think you'll use down the line. When I first got into AG, I wasted so much money buying kettles, etc. and then had to replace them with larger ones. Also, spend money to make your brewing more comfortable because if you initially have bad experiences, you may get discouraged. That being said, I'd recommend a 15 gallon kettle w/ball valve, a 10 gallon igloo, a pump, another burner for your HLT, a few ball valves, tubing, false bottom or bazooka tube or SS tubing . You can probably use your existing kettle for the HLT. Make sure your chiller can handle 5+ gallons. Install a ball valve on your HLT if you don't have one already. Install a ball valve on the igloo. Buy some hose barbs or even better use QD's. I initially carried boiling water around and I will never do that again. Spend the money on a pump, your body will thank you. You're all set to go.

 

[specharka]

Think everyone else pretty much covered the necessities. The "nice to have" list is much larger...

1) Immersion chiller. Although "no chill" is an option, an IC is the way to go IME. Water/ice baths are completely untenable with a full volume 5-7G boil.

2) Flask and stir plate for yeast starters. You may already have one. These things really get to be a necessity for bigger beers.

3) Refractometer. I never thought I would want one until I bought one -- they transform sampling wort gravity from a laborious task to a minute one. And you will be sampling gravity much more frequently when you go AG.

4) pH meter. If your brewing water needs adjustment in the mash, these can be extremely helpful. I don't use mine extensively, but I typically don't add brewing salts either.

There's a bunch of equipment I've assimilated to fly sparge, but it's not really necessary to make the transition to AG. Welcome to the club and enjoy the ride.

 

[christyle]

My current setup is very easy to use and not too pricey, and just above the "bare bones" to do non-BIAB AG brewing:

10gal Cooler MLT
Domed false bottom a buddy got me (minorly bling, basic braid ones can work fine)
Weldless valve setup
10gal cooler HLT with weldless valve setup (unnecessary once I get a bigger boil kettle and use my 7.5gal as a HLT)
7.5gal kettle (too small, even for 5gal)

A cooler MLT shouldn't cost more than maybe $75-100
If you're going to get a 10gal kettle, just get a 15 instead to have the option to do a 10gal batch

I don't use pumps and don't really see a need to, especially to start. I put my MLT on the ground to dump in my mash water, then drain from the MLT to my kettle on the stove. No need for a pump there really. Also, start with batch sparging, works just fine and is much easier to figure out and get done correctly.

 

[Rev2010]

You can also save money on the false bottom and go with a bazooka tube (which is what I did after using a false bottom one time and couldn't be happier) or make yourself a braid. One of the other things I appreciate about my bazooka tube is I can dump out the spent grains without the false bottom falling out. My tube was $17 from NB, and you can get them for even less like $10-12, and it's still going strong years later. You do have to roll up the end though to fit into a round Rubbermaid cooler. Here's a pic of mine I took some time back:

Rev.

 

[xpops]

It depends if you want to go BIAB or not. I was doing partial mash recipes for a while when my family tried to surprise me with some new equipment by getting me an Igloo MT. All of a sudden, I was buying a propane burner and 16 gallon kettle and brewing outside. If you want to go that route, that is my suggestion. Igloo MT, a big ass kettle and a propane burner. You can get it all on Amazon at really affordable prices. I got the Bayou Classic kettle and burner. If you'd like links, I'll edit them in.

Since Slym suggested the 10 gallon pot, I'll just add that it isn't too much of an investment to go a little bigger. It's easier to grow into a larger kettle than to decide you want to make bigger batches and have to replace it later.

I started with 5g batches in an 8g kettle and 40qt igloo MT....within about 6-7 batches it was clear that I could be getting 10g batches in about the same amount of effort....and upgraded to a 14g kettle and 60qt igloo MT. If I was told one thing in the beginning....I wish it were to have been prepared to move to 10g batches

Also - a quick method of cooling 5-10g of hot wort, be it an IC or CFWC. Both can be made by yourself with some simple free online plans !

Enjoy AG !!

 

[slym2none]

Honestly I don't know if I'd want to go the BIAB route or not. My gut is saying not go the BIAB route, but none of my brewing buddies do full grain so I don't really have a justification not to.

The thing is, you can try BIAB and the only thing you've spent money on that you don't use in other methods of AG brew is the bag. I say, always start simple and if you like what you're doing, then you step up your process. If you do 2-3 BIAB batches and still want to go to the three-vessel system, there's nothing impeding you. If you went all-out at the start & spent hundreds of dollars on a big system only to find out you don't like AG brewing, then that can turn into a pain.

 

[brooks56]

That's a very good point Slym. Besides costs are there any advantages to BIAB? Are there advantages to non-BIAB.

 

[specharka]

That's a very good point Slym. Besides costs are there any advantages to BIAB? Are there advantages to non-BIAB.

The biggest drawback for BIAB is your efficiency won't be as good as a batch sparge or a fly sparge using a multi-vessel system. Additionally, you can't fit nearly as much grain per batch in a BIAB system as you can in a multi-vessel system. Which isn't a problem if you're accustomed to brewing beers under 1.075 OG. And if you can't add heat directly to your mash vessel, you will probably need to add a few layers of Reflectix to retain heat during the mash.

That being said, there are really no "sunk" costs with BIAB as there are with multi-vessel systems. It's a great way to dip your toes in the all-grain water, so to speak.

 

[doug293cz]

The thing is, you can try BIAB and the only thing you've spent money on that you don't use in other methods of AG brew is the bag. I say, always start simple and if you like what you're doing, then you step up your process. If you do 2-3 BIAB batches and still want to go to the three-vessel system, there's nothing impeding you. If you went all-out at the start & spent hundreds of dollars on a big system only to find out you don't like AG brewing, then that can turn into a pain.

This is what I always advise. Try BIAB first, if you like it, you saved some money on equipment you don''t need. If you don't like it, you're only out the cost of the bag. I also recommend getting a ratchet pulley. Makes pulling and draining the bag easy. Wilserbrewer sells bag and pulley combos.

Brew on

 

[doug293cz]

The biggest drawback for BIAB is your efficiency won't be as good as a batch sparge or a fly sparge using a multi-vessel system. Additionally, you can't fit nearly as much grain per batch in a BIAB system as you can in a multi-vessel system. Which isn't a problem if you're accustomed to brewing beers under 1.075 OG. And if you can't add heat directly to your mash vessel, you will probably need to add a few layers of Reflectix to retain heat during the mash.

That being said, there are really no "sunk" costs with BIAB as there are with multi-vessel systems. It's a great way to dip your toes in the all-grain water, so to speak.

A well done mash and batch or fly sparge will almost always beat BIAB for efficiency. However, there is no shortage of threads on HBT from batch and fly spargers who are getting lower efficiencies than many BIABers. Often the biggest hit to efficiency is conversion efficiency (percentage of starch converted), and not lauter efficiency (percentage of converted sugars that end up in the BK.) BIAB has an advantage in conversion efficiency because you can crush finer and mash thinner, both of which promote better conversion efficiency.

Brew on

 

[specharka]

A well done mash and batch or fly sparge will almost always beat BIAB for efficiency. However, there is no shortage of threads on HBT from batch and fly spargers who are getting lower efficiencies than many BIABers. Often the biggest hit to efficiency is conversion efficiency (percentage of starch converted), and not lauter efficiency (percentage of converted sugars that end up in the BK.) BIAB has an advantage in conversion efficiency because you can crush finer and mash thinner, both of which promote better conversion efficiency.

Brew on

Yes, a poor grain crush will inhibit any mashing technique. And although BIABers do not have to worry about a stuck sparge, 100% conversion efficiency is attainable and reasonable to achieve with both methods, not just BIAB. The principle difference in lauter efficiency may not be significant for low gravity beers, but with higher gravity ones, it becomes apparent and a significant drawback for BIAB.

I am not sure your last statement is accurate.
http://byo.com/aging/item/1110-managing-mash-thickness

 

[doug293cz]

Yes, a poor grain crush will inhibit any mashing technique. And although BIABers do not have to worry about a stuck sparge, 100% conversion efficiency is attainable and reasonable to achieve with both methods, not just BIAB. The principle difference in lauter efficiency may not be significant for low gravity beers, but with higher gravity ones, it becomes apparent and a significant drawback for BIAB.

I am not sure your last statement is accurate.
http://byo.com/aging/item/1110-managing-mash-thickness

I'll take the results of controlled experiments over anecdotes every time http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Understanding_Efficiency#Mash_thickness. Most of the folks who theorize about higher enzyme concentrations in a thicker mash being the controlling factor don't take into account substrate inhibition. Looking at only one of the variables involved in a system will often lead to false conclusions.

In actuality, efficiency falls off faster with increasing grain bill weight for batch sparge than for no-sparge. So, a well squeezed no-sparge (less than 0.06 gal/lb grain absorption) beats a single batch sparge (grain absorption ~ 0.12 gal/lb) with grain bills higher than about 18.5 lb for a 5 gal batch. Fly sparge is intractable w.r.t. simulation, so that any kind of blanket statement is ill advised.



Brew on

 

[dmashl]

I use a 5 gallon SS pot(4 gallon boil, with 2 gallon top up in the fermenter), 5 gallon rubbermaid round cooler that I converted with brass valve and fittings. Plastic fermenting bucket. Buy my grains from www.ritebrew.com in bulk, crush my own grains using a barley crusher.

 

[Bobby_M]

What size kettle do you already have? If it's 7.5 gallons or more, no brainer build a 10 gallon cooler mash tun and that's all you need. If you don't have a 7.5g pot, now you have choices.

BIAB rig, 11 gallon pot with bag. Con; must insulate well after dough in or apply heat once in a while while stirring. Limited in the max gravity you can get without "tricks".

Traditional rig. 8-11 gallon pot and 10g mash tun. Pros: Holds temp very well after learning curve. Less limited in OG target. If you have to brew out in colder ambient temps I would go with this method.*

Exceptions apply. If you are willing to run an electric system and have disposable income buyback brew-boss.com system and call it a day.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Whether one chooses a MT or BIAB, choosing one over the other does not make one obsolete.

I do both cooler MLT and BIAB, for me it keeps things fun and interesting to vary my process. Not like buying a kettle or MT that is too small and gets sidelined permanently. A MT or a bag are both handy tools to have at your reach IMO.

A bag that fits a typical 15 gallon kettle also fits a 10 gallon round beverage cooler, so one could do standard BIAB in a kettle, and also use the bag in the cooler and batch sparge, say during colder weather. Lots of options.

 

[DurtyChemist]

I've already have a burner that will handle full boils. SWMBO kicked me out of the kitchen after the first brew. Not so much the mess but the stove didn't really have the BTUs do brew. Definitely need a new kettle. I do have thermometers, hydrometer, wort chiller, 5 gallon glass carboy secondary.

Honestly I don't know if I'd want to go the BIAB route or not. My gut is saying not go the BIAB route, but none of my brewing buddies do full grain so I don't really have a justification not to.

Definitely would like the links. How big of a kettle would you recommend?

So it looks like it's just the MT and a 10+ gallon kettle are a requirement.

Any nice to have items?

Go BIAB. I did it for at least a year or two before just now switching to two coolers that aren't even built. It's a $7 investment for the bag from a brew shop and you'll want a 10 gallon pot for brewing bigger beers anyways. If you don't like it you aren't out much. If you spend $150 on coolers then a buddy buys a $7 bag and you wish you'd saved money you get to sell equipment.

I'm switching because I want to be able to do a 10 gallon batch AND I'm only spending about $60 for two coolers to be setup as a mash tun and maybe a HLT.

 

[dstockwell]

As someone who's never BIABed there is nothing wrong with going that route.

I never brewed before now and went straight to BIAB. I also make smaller batches 3.25G or so. I wanted to utilize what I had on hand. 7.5G turkey fryer and burner, buy fermenting vessels etc, and a bag. I can heat strike water on stove then move to burner. Or the way I did my last one mashed overnight on the stove then moved outside to finish..