• We have a new forum and it needs your help! Homebrewing Deals is a forum to post whatever deals and specials you find that other homebrewers might value! Includes coupon layering, Craigslist finds, eBay finds, Amazon specials, etc.

***NEW PRODUCT*** The Yeast Brink from Nor Cal Brewing Solutions

HomeBrewTalk.com - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Community.

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

GreenMonti

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
1,267
Reaction score
65
How tall is that fermentor? Table top to liquid level in the vid.


Also, what is the blow off or the bubbler that you recommend for this?
 
Last edited:
OP
Jaybird
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
7,343
Reaction score
1,165
Location
Redding Ca
How tall is that fermentor? Table top to liquid level in the vid.


Also, what is the blow off or the bubbler that you recommend for this?
That one is mine and its at the store at the moment so I cant tell you exactly how tall it is. BUT I use the quart jars for my system under it and I built the leg extension kit custom for my freezer.

As for the blow off I use this.

https://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Ultimate-CO2-Canning-Jar-Harvesting-Kit.html

Cheers
Jay
 

GreenMonti

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
1,267
Reaction score
65
That one is mine and its at the store at the moment so I cant tell you exactly how tall it is. BUT I use the quart jars for my system under it and I built the leg extension kit custom for my freezer.

As for the blow off I use this.

https://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Ultimate-CO2-Canning-Jar-Harvesting-Kit.html

Cheers
Jay
I ask cause it doesn’t matter if it’s 15 gallons or 300 gallons that your pushing up through. What matters is the column height. That’s what dictates the pressure. If it’s 12” worth of column height then there’s roughly .5 psi that needs to be overcome. A touch less but.....it can be 1oz that’s 12” tall and require the same pressure.

I have no experience with that blow off system or the bubbler on the end of that system. I asked because of the vacuum that will form when dumping into the jar. The user will either draw in air or need to have enough “space” in the blow off to acomidate the transfer into the jar. Not drawing in liquid if it’s a tube in a bucket kind of setup. I suppose that’s what drove the comments about being able to purge the fermentor? You can’t remove any liquid that’s been drawn in though.

My last comment is really a concern. A concern about the use of glass jars and pressurizing them. I admit I’m not an expert in glass. However, mason jars scratch and have been known to fail because of it. Not to mention that they were designed to hold a vacuum and not pressure. The two are very different forces. The lid you’ve created has taken the weak link out of the equation and put all the signs of bad things into the glass. Which unfortunately doesn’t tell much of a story till it just breaks. 3 PSI isn’t just 3 PSI. It’s 3 PSI (or whatever PSI) times the whole jars surface area. That’s why hot water heater failures are so spectacular. Right. Mason jars are stored under a vacuum without the bands on the lids....
Do you have solid proof that the glass jars can handle the pressure involved in this situation? What happens when someone puts it on a taller vessel or puts too much pressure in the jar before opening the fermentor valve? I didn’t see any pressure relief valve on this setup in the video.
 

Mellman

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Sep 19, 2008
Messages
300
Reaction score
8
So I think this looks like a pretty awesome product, great work! I have your original attachment for mason jars - any chance I can send it back for modification?

Also, I have some concerns about glass & pressure. Mason jars are built to withstand a vacuum, but how do they handle being pressurized? Is there an alternative with the same threads that isn't glass? Plastic? Metal? I'd be worried someone may hook up a regulator that got adjusted to 30psi accidentally and blow up a mason jar (I don't know what they can actually handle but I try to minimize glass in my brew days, too many carboy horror stories.)
 
OP
Jaybird
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
7,343
Reaction score
1,165
Location
Redding Ca
I do appreciate your feedback. We use glass jars in all sorts of things around here. From yeast harvesters to Randalls and thumpers in the distilling world that use heated steam. All have their own set of rules and of course you need to be careful.

The liquid level in the system in the video was aprox 38" off the table to the water level.

I will try and find the pictures someone took and sent us of the original harvester system under a 3 or 5 BBL plastic conical open and storing yeast using the stock metal band. We do sell and suggest the neoprene covers for sure if you are concerned about breakage.

As for the pressure. Here are the results form the testing I have personally done

I am going to start off by saying I am in NO way suggesting you do this or that the jar will handle this as its all going to be hinged on how tight you put on your lid and you do need to use caution anytime you handle glass. I have personally under a closed and bomb proofed environment added 25 PSI to a 1/2 gallon mason jar and held that for 10 min before I decided to just see how far it would go and what the weak link is. I slowly added PSI until it blew. I was between 27 and 32 PSI before the ring gave way and blew the top off every time. The 1/2 gallon glass mason jar was still 100% in tact. This test was preformed 5 x on the same jar with a new ring every time to insure the system was stable.

I have been designing, building and using mason jars for YEARS in my system and have yet to have 1 fail. That is not to say they can't. It's just not something I personally worry about and feel very confident using them.

Cheers
Jay
 

Mellman

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Sep 19, 2008
Messages
300
Reaction score
8
Thanks Jay I appreciate the response, excellent point that the ring is probably the weak point of the system, not like those threads are super secure.
 

GreenMonti

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
1,267
Reaction score
65
I do appreciate your feedback. We use glass jars in all sorts of things around here. From yeast harvesters to Randalls and thumpers in the distilling world that use heated steam. All have their own set of rules and of course you need to be careful.
They are different situations for sure.

The liquid level in the system in the video was aprox 38" off the table to the water level.
At aprox 38” height, that’s about 1.3 PSI. So keeping it simple, at 1.4 PSI you’d be slowly pushing fluid back into the fermentor.

I will try and find the pictures someone took and sent us of the original harvester system under a 3 or 5 BBL plastic conical open and storing yeast using the stock metal band. We do sell and suggest the neoprene covers for sure if you are concerned about breakage.
Again, it’s not about the amount of liquid. It’s the height of the column. 3 or 5 BBL fermentors come in all different shapes. The width is the main point I’m thinking of in this case. Cylinders are quite special in the way that doubling the diameter will quadruple the capacity that it will hold. Doing nothing to increase the PSI even though there’s more liquid. Since the height of the cylinder was not increased.

I’m mentioning this again so others don’t get the wrong impression about volumes and pressures. Aprox 38” under the surface in the great wide ocean will still be about 1.3 PSI.

As for the pressure. Here are the results form the testing I have personally done

I am going to start off by saying I am in NO way suggesting you do this or that the jar will handle this as its all going to be hinged on how tight you put on your lid and you do need to use caution anytime you handle glass. I have personally under a closed and bomb proofed environment added 25 PSI to a 1/2 gallon mason jar and held that for 10 min before I decided to just see how far it would go and what the weak link is. I slowly added PSI until it blew. I was between 27 and 32 PSI before the ring gave way and blew the top off every time. The 1/2 gallon glass mason jar was still 100% in tact. This test was preformed 5 x on the same jar with a new ring every time to insure the system was stable.

Cheers
Jay
I appreciate you taking the time to test. However, for me personally, this does not give me warm and fuzzy feelings. Most probably don’t share my opinion.

Thank you for your response back to my questions Jay.
 

sheikyerbouti

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 13, 2007
Messages
77
Reaction score
16
This looks awesome.

Jay-is there an option for those of us with 2" TC connections without using a reducer?
 

tll77

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Sep 27, 2018
Messages
180
Reaction score
92
Location
Los Angeles
I love this idea and while I do use mason jars for yeast storage, canned wort, and such, I just wouldn't feel comfortable with the jar for this. Maybe the band is the weak link and I wont be picking glass shrapnel out of my skin, but I would be crying while I'm cleaning up all my spilled beer.:(

Jay, could this be made with of a 2"TC sight glass in place of the jar? That I would certainly be interested in.
 
OP
Jaybird
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
7,343
Reaction score
1,165
Location
Redding Ca
Jay, could this be made with of a 2"TC sight glass in place of the jar? That I would certainly be interested in.
Probably. Let me work on that. Give me a couple days.
the stand pipe will have to be 1" but let me play around with it. Might be a bit tight but I KNOW we can do it with a 3" Sight glass for sure!

Cheers
Jay
 
Last edited:

miltonz

New Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2016
Messages
4
Reaction score
2
I have been looking to dryhop without introducing unnecessary oxygen. Placed order, looking forward to trying. Tks.
 

S-Met

Department of Redundancy Department.
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Jan 15, 2018
Messages
4,130
Reaction score
3,910
Location
Nor Cal
concern about the use of glass jars and pressurizing them. I admit I’m not an expert in glass. However, mason jars scratch and have been known to fail because of it. Not to mention that they were designed to hold a vacuum and not pressure.
Also, I have some concerns about glass & pressure. Mason jars are built to withstand a vacuum, but how do they handle being pressurized?
I'm not sure if either of you have canned before, but mason jars endure high pressure before a vacuum is created. You heat the sealed contents in a mason jar in boiling h2o then remove to cool. If you ar preventing botulism, you need to get the temp over 240. Using a pressure canner, you need a minimum of 10psi at sea level to raise h20 boiling point to 240°. I recall the gauge of the one in my great grandma's house went up to 20psi. Not sure if the system would withstand or if its just the gauge.
 

sheikyerbouti

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 13, 2007
Messages
77
Reaction score
16
Thank you Jay!

I have a spike conical and they come with a 2" bottom port. I'm sure others will want it as well. I will be first to buy one :)
 
Last edited:
OP
Jaybird
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
7,343
Reaction score
1,165
Location
Redding Ca
Thank you Jay!

I have a spike conical and they come with a 2" bottom port. I'm sure others will want it as well. I will be first to buy one :)
The way I am looking at this anyone will be able to use it. 1.5" TC OR 2" so you'll be good.

I am gone till Monday so we are going to dive into this then. I'll keep you posted.

Cheers
Jay
 

GreenMonti

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
1,267
Reaction score
65
I'm not sure if either of you have canned before, but mason jars endure high pressure before a vacuum is created. You heat the sealed contents in a mason jar in boiling h2o then remove to cool. If you ar preventing botulism, you need to get the temp over 240. Using a pressure canner, you need a minimum of 10psi at sea level to raise h20 boiling point to 240°. I recall the gauge of the one in my great grandma's house went up to 20psi. Not sure if the system would withstand or if its just the gauge.
When pressure canning you are indeed increasing the temperature at which water boils. Which is why if the lid ever popped off there would be a massive volcano of its contents flash boiling and erupting violently.
This extra pressure doesn’t act adversely on the jars. The liquid in the jars is not compressible just like the liquid they are sitting in. Only the air in the headspace of the jar and in the canner is a problem. Which is why you boil them at high heat for 10-15 mins with the vent fully open. This degasses the liquids and allows the jars to vent.
Whether water bath canning or pressure canning, the jars in fact vent while in the cooker. If they didn’t they would never form a vacuum when they come out of the cooker. A lid that is to tight will also cause jars to break in the canner, (due to pressure) if they don’t break they will suffer by not forming the vacuum. The lids are meant to act as a check valve.
 
OP
Jaybird
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
7,343
Reaction score
1,165
Location
Redding Ca
Thank you Jay!

I have a spike conical and they come with a 2" bottom port. I'm sure others will want it as well. I will be first to buy one :)
Here ya go
Right now the top connection can be either 1.5" or 2" TC doesn't change anything on my end.

MAN there are some AMAZING possibilities with this bad boy! Put this INLINE with your bottom drain butterfly valve so you can sanitize it once, then when you inject your yeast you still have it set up for bottom drain dump AND if you are going to dry hop you can have a TEE already in place and just drop your hops in there, flush with CO2 and BOOM!

I SEE GREAT THINGS HERE!

Cheers
Jay



SightBrink1.jpg
 

tll77

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Sep 27, 2018
Messages
180
Reaction score
92
Location
Los Angeles
Yes. That's what I'm talking about!!!

So, is that the 3"sight glass in the photo? I can't wait to see this thing in action.
 
OP
Jaybird
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
7,343
Reaction score
1,165
Location
Redding Ca
Yes. That's what I'm talking about!!!

So, is that the 3"sight glass in the photo? I can't wait to see this thing in action.
No that is a 2" sight glass. Can you believe I was able to get the downcomer tube AND a blow off on the same 2" CAP? IT is a 1" tube NOT a 1.5" just to be clear.


I will be adding this to our website in 2" sight glass AND 3". The 3" is going to take a while as I don't have a US vendor for 3" sight glass to be able to make our build and its not a stocked part in my shop. We are ONLY going to sell this one pictured with OUR sight glass so there isn't any measurement issues I need to contend with.

Cheers
Jay
 

sheikyerbouti

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 13, 2007
Messages
77
Reaction score
16
Here ya go
Right now the top connection can be either 1.5" or 2" TC doesn't change anything on my end.

MAN there are some AMAZING possibilities with this bad boy! Put this INLINE with your bottom drain butterfly valve so you can sanitize it once, then when you inject your yeast you still have it set up for bottom drain dump AND if you are going to dry hop you can have a TEE already in place and just drop your hops in there, flush with CO2 and BOOM!

I SEE GREAT THINGS HERE!

Cheers
Jay



View attachment 600683
SWEET!

Jay- is it possible to order the yeast brink with the 2" TC yet? I do not need a sight glass.
 
OP
Jaybird
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
7,343
Reaction score
1,165
Location
Redding Ca
SWEET!

Jay- is it possible to order the yeast brink with the 2" TC yet? I do not need a sight glass.
The one for the Mason jar system? I'm working on it. I have to get some caps made to make that happen. IF your talking about the one for the sight glass but without the sight glass. You will need to make sure your sight glass will work. They are not at all the same from different places.

Let me know what one your talking about and we can go from there.

Cheers
Jay
 

sheikyerbouti

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 13, 2007
Messages
77
Reaction score
16
The one for the Mason jar system? I'm working on it. I have to get some caps made to make that happen. IF your talking about the one for the sight glass but without the sight glass. You will need to make sure your sight glass will work. They are not at all the same from different places.

Let me know what one your talking about and we can go from there.

Cheers
Jay
The mason jar system please. Happy to order one!
 

ttuato

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Aug 2, 2016
Messages
273
Reaction score
272
Location
Chattanooga
Question for when using as a dry-hopper:

After filling up the jar with hop pellets and replacing the lid the jar will be full of oxygen from the air. Opening the drain valve to introduce beer and push out the air will result in a jar of oxidized beer full of pellets, that then gets pushed back into the conical.

Wouldn’t it make sense to add a 3lb prv to lid so that once it is reconnected to conical you could attach CO2 / Nitro and purge the jar a few times, then open for beer to mix with pellets and subsequently push non-oxidized beer back into conical?
 

ttuato

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Aug 2, 2016
Messages
273
Reaction score
272
Location
Chattanooga
Okay - disregard that previous post.

For others that may have thought the same thing - here is the solution:

Attach the dry hop filled yeast brink to the conical but do not fully tighten the triclamp. Apply purge gas a few times and allow the purge to exit around the TC gasket. After purging a few times tighten triclamp and voila - O2 free dryhops

Question for when using as a dry-hopper:

After filling up the jar with hop pellets and replacing the lid the jar will be full of oxygen from the air. Opening the drain valve to introduce beer and push out the air will result in a jar of oxidized beer full of pellets, that then gets pushed back into the conical.

Wouldn’t it make sense to add a 3lb prv to lid so that once it is reconnected to conical you could attach CO2 / Nitro and purge the jar a few times, then open for beer to mix with pellets and subsequently push non-oxidized beer back into conical?
 

Tartan1

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
178
Reaction score
65
Location
GTA
What would the overall height for the assembled 2" sight glass version be? From top t clamp to bottom t clamp. Reason I ask is I have very limited clearance under my conical after the butterfly dump valve.

Thanks
 

ttuato

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Aug 2, 2016
Messages
273
Reaction score
272
Location
Chattanooga
@Jaybird I have a 30L speidel fermenter and just received a new Norcal diptube & ball valve for the bottom that pairs with already attached Norcal gas/prv (20lb) on the top. Now that I have seen this item it looks like it might be capable to use with the new yeast brink for LODO dry hopping the speidel. All that would be needed is npt/triclamp adapter amd TC ball lock attached to diptube then a length of 1/2” ID silicone hose with TC ends attached to yeast brink - fill w/hops, add beer to form slurry then push back into speidel . Can you please test to see if it would work?
 

Tartan1

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
178
Reaction score
65
Location
GTA
I will be adding this to our website in 2" sight glass AND 3". The 3" is going to take a while as I don't have a US vendor for 3" sight glass to be able to make our build and its not a stocked part in my shop.
For the 3" version would there be enough room on the top cap to run a 1 1/2" downtube as well as the gas port? In other words if one has a 1 1/2" or 2" dump valve there would be less restriction (straight run) into the sight glass, thus preventing any clogging issues while harvesting/injecting yeast, or dry hopping.

Thanks
 

Grant McKinley

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Aug 18, 2018
Messages
53
Reaction score
15
At aprox 38” height, that’s about 1.3 PSI. So keeping it simple, at 1.4 PSI you’d be slowly pushing fluid back into the fermentor.

Again, it’s not about the amount of liquid. It’s the height of the column. 3 or 5 BBL fermentors come in all different shapes. The width is the main point I’m thinking of in this case. Cylinders are quite special in the way that doubling the diameter will quadruple the capacity that it will hold. Doing nothing to increase the PSI even though there’s more liquid. Since the height of the cylinder was not increased.

I’m mentioning this again so others don’t get the wrong impression about volumes and pressures. Aprox 38” under the surface in the great wide ocean will still be about 1.3 PSI.

To add to this with an engineering hat. The exact formula is:

p = 0.433 h SG

where
p = pressure (psi)
h = head (ft) (the total height of fluid)
SG = specific gravity of the fluid (water at 62 Deg. F. is 1.0)

So, 0.433 x 3.16 ft. x 1.03 SG (still fermenting) = 1.41 PSI

If you have a fermentor that is 30 feet tall with a water level of 25 feet it would be

0.433 x 25.0 FT x 1.03 SG = 11.15 PSI.

If you wanted to get really crazy you could add the valve if it isn't a full port valve which would have an equivalent pressure drop in foot of head.

Brew engineering fun. Enough of that I need a beer.

I like the product by the way.[/QUOTE]
 
Last edited:

GreenMonti

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
1,267
Reaction score
65
To add to this with an engineering hat. The exact formula is:

p = 0.433 h SG

where
p = pressure (psi)
h = head (ft) (the total height of fluid)
SG = specific gravity of the fluid (water at 62 Deg. F. is 1.0)

So, 0.433 x 3.16 ft. x 1.03 SG (still fermenting) = 1.41 PSI
Well lookee there. I was pretty close for pulling rough math out of the air. I mean....my head.

Thanks Grant for the long hand version.
 
OP
Jaybird
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
7,343
Reaction score
1,165
Location
Redding Ca
What would the overall height for the assembled 2" sight glass version be? From top t clamp to bottom t clamp. Reason I ask is I have very limited clearance under my conical after the butterfly dump valve.

Thanks
9.5" Total OAL

Cheers
Jay
 
OP
Jaybird
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
7,343
Reaction score
1,165
Location
Redding Ca
At aprox 38” height, that’s about 1.3 PSI. So keeping it simple, at 1.4 PSI you’d be slowly pushing fluid back into the fermentor.

Again, it’s not about the amount of liquid. It’s the height of the column. 3 or 5 BBL fermentors come in all different shapes. The width is the main point I’m thinking of in this case. Cylinders are quite special in the way that doubling the diameter will quadruple the capacity that it will hold. Doing nothing to increase the PSI even though there’s more liquid. Since the height of the cylinder was not increased.

I’m mentioning this again so others don’t get the wrong impression about volumes and pressures. Aprox 38” under the surface in the great wide ocean will still be about 1.3 PSI.

To add to this with an engineering hat. The exact formula is:

p = 0.433 h SG

where
p = pressure (psi)
h = head (ft) (the total height of fluid)
SG = specific gravity of the fluid (water at 62 Deg. F. is 1.0)

So, 0.433 x 3.16 ft. x 1.03 SG (still fermenting) = 1.41 PSI

If you have a fermentor that is 30 feet tall with a water level of 25 feet it would be

0.433 x 25.0 FT x 1.03 SG = 11.15 PSI.

If you wanted to get really crazy you could add the valve if it isn't a full port valve which would have an equivalent pressure drop in foot of head.

Brew engineering fun. Enough of that I need a beer.

I like the product by the way.
[/QUOTE]
Well that was fun, makes total sense to me.... Thanks for the engineering insight I will have to ask the owner of Fall River brewing company if I can borrow a 120 BBL fermenter and just do a quick test. I bet he will let me..LOL

Cheers
Jay
 
OP
Jaybird
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
7,343
Reaction score
1,165
Location
Redding Ca
For the 3" version would there be enough room on the top cap to run a 1 1/2" downtube as well as the gas port? In other words if one has a 1 1/2" or 2" dump valve there would be less restriction (straight run) into the sight glass, thus preventing any clogging issues while harvesting/injecting yeast, or dry hopping.

Thanks
Not sure what downcomer tubes we will be using. But more than likely the 1.5" if it will all fit. the 2" we are bound to the 1" tubing because of the size of the cap.

Cheers
Jay
 

ttuato

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Aug 2, 2016
Messages
273
Reaction score
272
Location
Chattanooga
I do not own the yeast brink nor do I own a conical - HOWEVER I do own a Jaybird modded Speidel fermentor and the yeast harvester this yeast brink is based off of. I asked a question earlier in the thread about using these to mimic the yeast brink advertised here (dry hopping specifically)- it worked! Here is a couple of pics of the setup.

I did some test batches first - 9-10oz is MAX amount hop pellets in the HALF GALLON jar. Any more and it is just sludge that will not move.

Adding beer to dryhop. Before doing this, I purged the jar with nitro and CO2, let it set for a few minutes - then purged again then tightened the TC clamp. This jar had 7.5oz hops and took about 40secs to push it all back into fermentor. When the flow slowed it was because the sludge started compacted the barb, I would just shake it a little and it would flow back in.

C71A6A3F-18E8-4895-B28B-DA96B33E920E.jpeg




Now I can LODO dry hop my hazy IPAs then cold crash in my psuedo unitank and only transfer “clear” beer into kegs. Thanks @Jaybird !!!
 
OP
Jaybird
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
7,343
Reaction score
1,165
Location
Redding Ca
ABSOLUTELY! Thanks for the video! That is an outstanding way to use the system! I LOVE IT!

Cheers
Jay
 

alphakry

Active Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2015
Messages
40
Reaction score
6
Location
New York
This design is awesome!! I'd like to try this on my spike CF30's and will be picking one up along with a few other items from Nor Cal. Any current discounts or coupons going on for HBT members?
 

Logan1891

Active Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
34
Reaction score
7
Jaybird,

Any thoughts on building this on a smaller scale? Maybe a 16oz mason jar design with a NPT fitting instead of TC? I was thinking about adapting this for use with my stainless steel bucket fermenter. My plan was to use it for dry hopping rather than yeast harvesting.
 
Last edited:
OP
Jaybird
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
7,343
Reaction score
1,165
Location
Redding Ca
IMG_20190325_181043.jpg
1.5 " converted to 2"
Only way we can do it. If I add the 2" connection the canning jars ring will simply not go on.

Cheers
Jay
 
2
Top