'New' Lallemand Yeasts - New England and Kolsch

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That’s why I went with only 2 packets of yeast for the NE IPA. Interestingly, my final gravity after 7 days is 1.014.
 
rhys333 said:
Any updates on the Lallemand Kölsch dry yeast? Does it take as long to ferment as 2565 and will it produce the characteristic fruity flavors at warmer temperatures?
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I have a pseudo kolsch on tap, single hopped with cashmere and Decently dry hopped. I’d say the beer came out alright. I don’t think it’s that fruity, even the cashmere is pretty light.

One rehydrated packet. Mashed at 150 for 75 minutes.

1.046 OG
1.010 FG

6/20 Pitched @ 69F
Fermented 65 (trying for the fruitiness)

6/27 1.012, dry hopped 1oz, spunded
6/28 AM bumped temp to 67F, left hydro on counter from day before, down to 1.010

6/28 PM bumped to 69

6/30 started crash, new hydro sample stayed at 1.010

I later dry hopped with another 2oz cashmere cause I wasn’t happy with the beer. I also added gelatin but I don’t see where that is. It’s much better a month later but not sure I’d use this again vs just doing a hoppy Pilsner or using something like San Diego super
 
BeerFst said:
I have a pseudo kolsch on tap, single hopped with cashmere and Decently dry hopped. I’d say the beer came out alright. I don’t think it’s that fruity, even the cashmere is pretty light.

One rehydrated packet. Mashed at 150 for 75 minutes.

1.046 OG
1.010 FG

6/20 Pitched @ 69F
Fermented 65 (trying for the fruitiness)

6/27 1.012, dry hopped 1oz, spunded
6/28 AM bumped temp to 67F, left hydro on counter from day before, down to 1.010

6/28 PM bumped to 69

6/30 started crash, new hydro sample stayed at 1.010

I later dry hopped with another 2oz cashmere cause I wasn’t happy with the beer. I also added gelatin but I don’t see where that is. It’s much better a month later but not sure I’d use this again vs just doing a hoppy Pilsner or using something like San Diego super
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Awesome. Thanks for the detailed reply,
 
I've also got a Kolsch fermenting at 16C. Mine took a couple days to get started, but seems to be going steady now.
 
After ~36hrs to get going as well mine ended up going from 1.050 - 1.012. 75% Apparent. I just got round to bottling this one in the weekend.
 
Mine started at 1.049 and went down to 1.008, so around 80%. It's been sitting in a keg for a week, but hasn't completely cleared yet. I didn't add any gelatin (yet).
 
It's weird, but I'm noticing that Lallemand Voss Kveik tastes very kölsch-like. My pale ale definitely has that white wine background characteristic I get from WY2565 Kölsch strain. I fermented 5.5 gallons of a 1.050 ale at 30C with half a packet of the dry yeast (7.5g).

My plan is to brew a simple kölsch with it next and see if it stacks up.
 
peterj said:
I rehydrated 1 pack of the New England and pitched into 5.5 gal of 1.051 ESB at 68F. So I just did a typical dry yeast pitching rate. It started fermenting the next day, so lag time was not really an issue. Started raising the temp after about 3 or 4 days slowly up to about 71F. It did take about 10 days to fully finish fermenting down to FG, which was 1.012. So pretty good attenuation especially since this was a quick extract batch I was using to try out the yeast, and there was 1.25 lbs of crystal malts in it. When transferring to keg (Day 14) there were some big yeast rafts/flakes remaining on top with similar flat chunks in the yeast cake, which was kinda weird. The beer had a slight haze but was overall pretty clear and tasted good in the hydrometer sample.

I've had it in the keg for about a week now and I think it tastes really good. It is fairly fruity in a really nice stone fruit, tropical, maybe red apple kind of way. No diacetyl or any other off flavors that I can detect. Definitely not as Englishy as 1318 and not quite as fruity, but the esters it has are really nice. I've never used Conan so I can't really compare it to that.

Honestly I can't stop drinking it. Definitely want to try this in an IPA, and I will probably use it for a lot of my American and British styles. As others said, Label Peelers has it for about $6 and they just had a Halloween sale where I got a couple packs for $4.50 each. Free shipping for dry yeast too. I bought the Koln yeast during that sale too just to try it out. Glad to hear it has some positive reviews.
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Oh yeah, I feel like I should go back and revisit my review of the New England strain. I used it in a couple more beers, and I'm actually not really a fan. The flavor is ok, but there's something about it that I don't really like that was distinct in all the beers I did with it. Also it acted really weird, almost like it was a diastaticus strain or something (Lallemand says it's not). I have a Tilt so I was watching the SG. It would have an initial big drop then level out for a couple days, but then it would just slowly keep dropping about 1 point every day or two for a few weeks. I would eventually just keg the beer, but I'm not positive that it would have stopped. I thought maybe I had an infection, but I brewed with other yeasts in between and they acted normally. It ended up leaving the beers too dry and the yeast flavors weren't that great anyway so I decided not to use it anymore.

But Lallemand just came out with the Verdant IPA yeast that is basically a variant of 1318. I just ordered a couple packs from Label Peelers and I can't wait to brew with them.
 
rhys333 said:
It's weird, but I'm noticing that Lallemand Voss Kveik tastes very kölsch-like. My pale ale definitely has that white wine background characteristic I get from WY2565 Kölsch strain. I fermented 5.5 gallons of a 1.050 ale at 30C with half a packet of the dry yeast (7.5g).

My plan is to brew a simple kölsch with it next and see if it stacks up.
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Well genetically the kveik family seem to be the result of a kolsch-like yeast hybridising with an unknown (presumably local Scandinavian) yeast, so it's not as ridiculous as it sounds.
 
I wanted to put in my 2 cents on the Koln yeast. I was unaware that this needed a higher than normal pitch rate until after the yeast was pitched. According to Lallemand 2 yeast packs should be used. I used 1 pack in 5.5 gallons 1.049 og wort. The fermenter was chilled to 59f. This is the slowest yeast I've ever used. It took right over 36 hours just to see VERY minimal activity and 60 hours for a slight krausen. It may be due to the pitch rate, but, it may just be the yeast itself. This is a very simple brew. 90% 2 row 10% wheat malt, FWH Magnum, 15 min Hallertau MF, bittered to around 20 ibus. The pilsner water profile is being used from brewers friend. Once this brew is ready I'm going to take it to the lhbs/brewery and see what liquid strain they think this is close to. I wanted something light and plain jane to get a fill for the yeast before I really developed a rock solid recipe.
 
rtstrider said:
I wanted to put in my 2 cents on the Koln yeast. I was unaware that this needed a higher than normal pitch rate until after the yeast was pitched. According to Lallemand 2 yeast packs should be used. I used 1 pack in 5.5 gallons 1.049 og wort. The fermenter was chilled to 59f. This is the slowest yeast I've ever used. It took right over 36 hours just to see VERY minimal activity and 60 hours for a slight krausen. It may be due to the pitch rate, but, it may just be the yeast itself. This is a very simple brew. 90% 2 row 10% wheat malt, FWH Magnum, 15 min Hallertau MF, bittered to around 20 ibus. The pilsner water profile is being used from brewers friend. Once this brew is ready I'm going to take it to the lhbs/brewery and see what liquid strain they think this is close to. I wanted something light and plain jane to get a fill for the yeast before I really developed a rock solid recipe.
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I would consider the Lallemand Voss Kveik strain. As per my above post, I brewed a kolsch with it. I kegged it 3 days ago and it definitely has the subtle white wine character I associate with the style. I don't yet know how it's going taste after lagering, but so far so good. I cannot tell the difference between this and the WY 2565 Kolsch strain.

Edit: WY 2565. Got the numbers wrong.
 
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rhys333 said:
I would consider the Lallemand Voss Kveik strain. As per my above post, I brewed a kolsch with it. I kegged it 3 days ago and it definitely has the subtle white wine character I associate with the style. I don't yet know how it's going taste after lagering, but so far so good. I cannot tell the difference between this and the WY 2655 Kolsch strain.
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I actually have that exact strain in the fridge right now. Plan is to brew a cascade/amarillo pale ale 90% 2 row 10% c-20 bitter to around 38ish IBU's and shoot for an abv in the 5.6%-5.8% range. That's going be the brew after this. Will ferment around 92F or so. Please let me know how that Kolsch turns out!

Side note I brewed with the Stranda (Hothead) strain and it's bottle conditioning now. Fermented at 92f. The IPA sample was darn tasty!
 
rtstrider said:
I wanted to put in my 2 cents on the Koln yeast. I was unaware that this needed a higher than normal pitch rate until after the yeast was pitched. According to Lallemand 2 yeast packs should be used. I used 1 pack in 5.5 gallons 1.049 og wort. The fermenter was chilled to 59f. This is the slowest yeast I've ever used. It took right over 36 hours just to see VERY minimal activity and 60 hours for a slight krausen. It may be due to the pitch rate, but, it may just be the yeast itself. This is a very simple brew. 90% 2 row 10% wheat malt, FWH Magnum, 15 min Hallertau MF, bittered to around 20 ibus. The pilsner water profile is being used from brewers friend. Once this brew is ready I'm going to take it to the lhbs/brewery and see what liquid strain they think this is close to. I wanted something light and plain jane to get a fill for the yeast before I really developed a rock solid recipe.
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I used 2 packs my last one and it still took about that long to get going so i'm thinking it's just the yeast. Mine was 22L (5.8gal?) OG 1.050 fermented at 16.5 C (61.7F?).
 
rtstrider said:
I wanted to put in my 2 cents on the Koln yeast. I was unaware that this needed a higher than normal pitch rate until after the yeast was pitched. According to Lallemand 2 yeast packs should be used. I used 1 pack in 5.5 gallons 1.049 og wort. The fermenter was chilled to 59f. This is the slowest yeast I've ever used. It took right over 36 hours just to see VERY minimal activity and 60 hours for a slight krausen. It may be due to the pitch rate, but, it may just be the yeast itself. This is a very simple brew. 90% 2 row 10% wheat malt, FWH Magnum, 15 min Hallertau MF, bittered to around 20 ibus. The pilsner water profile is being used from brewers friend. Once this brew is ready I'm going to take it to the lhbs/brewery and see what liquid strain they think this is close to. I wanted something light and plain jane to get a fill for the yeast before I really developed a rock solid recipe.
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This yeast is definitely not worth using. As someone who brews Kolsch a lot (close to 20 batches the last few years) and has used every yeast under the sun I wouldn't bother with this yeast again. The cell counts are incredibly low and especially if you’re trying to ferment it on the cold side I’d probably shoot for 3 packs. That’s way too expensive when the benefit of dried yeast is often the cost.

The likelihood that a slow fermentation like you’re experiencing is going to produce anything that you could compare to other yeasts is highly unlikely. Usually you will experience increased acetaldehyde production and subsequent poor cleanup of it and other compounds. You might get lucky but if not I’d try krausening it with your next batch. It’s amazing what it can do.

I’m pretty sure Lallemand Koln is just their version of K-97 which is essentially the dried version of wyeast 1007, German Ale. Although the flocculation does look to be a bit better with Koln. They do say it’s a slow fermenter and can take a while for fermentation to begin. I’d bet it’s just due to the fact that this yeast doesn’t dry well at all. The fact that they talk about hop biotransformation with this yeast and it ferments cold to me sounds exactly like 1007.

wlp029 and Imperial Dieter are the easiest Kolsch strains to use as they are relatively fast, ferment better a little warmer, and flocculate much faster. However they just don’t seem to produce the correct ester profile for me. 2565 is hard to beat from an ester standpoint but it takes so unbelievably long to flocc. When it does it’s great though.

1007 lends a bit more sulphur character and is a bit easier to use than 2565 but not by much. It’s a pretty hardy yeast and doesn’t produce diacetyl above threshold so you can crash it as soon as it hits terminal. It’s used by a decent amount of large craft breweries for this reason, but again needs to be filtered or fined for a quick turnaround.
 
skysmyzer said:
I used 2 packs my last one and it still took about that long to get going so i'm thinking it's just the yeast. Mine was 22L (5.8gal?) OG 1.050 fermented at 16.5 C (61.7F?).
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Have you used any other kolsch yeasts before this? If so is there a liquid strain you think it is close to? I've never had a proper kolsch (store or brewery)
couchsending said:
This yeast is definitely not worth using. As someone who brews Kolsch a lot (close to 20 batches the last few years) and has used every yeast under the sun I wouldn't bother with this yeast again. The cell counts are incredibly low and especially if you’re trying to ferment it on the cold side I’d probably shoot for 3 packs. That’s way too expensive when the benefit of dried yeast is often the cost.

The likelihood that a slow fermentation like you’re experiencing is going to produce anything that you could compare to other yeasts is highly unlikely. Usually you will experience increased acetaldehyde production and subsequent poor cleanup of it and other compounds. You might get lucky but if not I’d try krausening it with your next batch. It’s amazing what it can do.

I’m pretty sure Lallemand Koln is just their version of K-97 which is essentially the dried version of wyeast 1007, German Ale. Although the flocculation does look to be a bit better with Koln. They do say it’s a slow fermenter and can take a while for fermentation to begin. I’d bet it’s just due to the fact that this yeast doesn’t dry well at all. The fact that they talk about hop biotransformation with this yeast and it ferments cold to me sounds exactly like 1007.

wlp029 and Imperial Dieter are the easiest Kolsch strains to use as they are relatively fast, ferment better a little warmer, and flocculate much faster. However they just don’t seem to produce the correct ester profile for me. 2565 is hard to beat from an ester standpoint but it takes so unbelievably long to flocc. When it does it’s great though.

1007 lends a bit more sulphur character and is a bit easier to use than 2565 but not by much. It’s a pretty hardy yeast and doesn’t produce diacetyl above threshold so you can crash it as soon as it hits terminal. It’s used by a decent amount of large craft breweries for this reason, but again needs to be filtered or fined for a quick turnaround.
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Thanks so much for that! I'll probably ramp up the temps at the end of fermentation and let this sit in primary for a bit due to your comments on acetylaldehyde. Figured it couldn't hurt at least!
 
That's the only Kolsch yeast I've used, used it twice, once with 1 pack, then with 2. Never used a liquid yeast which I think is why I went for this when it came available. Might look for an alternative next time. How does K-97 go?
 
So right at 96 hours (4 days) we FINALLY have a full krausen and air lock bubbling every 3 seconds like a normal fermentation. This really is behaving like a lager yeast from the looks of the krausen and the delayed, so far, fermentation. It's not the typical ape crazy ale krausen but very subdued white/foamy krausen. Really eager to give this a sample when it's done :)
 
Fermentation is STILL going strong 6 days later at 59F. I bumped up the temp to 61F this morning and will bump up 2F every 24 hours until it hits 66F and let it ride out. Figured that will help speed things up a tad hopefully.
 
Pulled a gravity sample last night and this was at 1.010 which is one point below the target FG (1.011). Will test again Thursday and if it's the same it's cold crash time :) The sample was really powdery and not hazy. Just powdery if that makes sense. It didn't look like the normal "murky haze" if that's what you want to call it for a normal sample. Instead it looked like tiny bits of powder. It had a faint white wine flavor with a very light ester/(possible)phenol combo that reminds me of a hefeweizen. I'm talking this is FAINT so you have to look for it. I did not taste any acetaldehyde and there was a touch of sulfur on the nose that dissipated quickly. The ibu's are in the 19-20 range but the hops have a pretty hefty up front bite. The brew itself is very crisp and lager like body/mouthfeel wise. It definitely tastes like it needs some lagering though. It's pretty rough around the edges so not TOO worried about that lol It's a young beer ;) I'll keep this thread updated since it doesn't seem there has been an in depth "review" per se on the Koln yeast yet.

PS For anyone that has had, or brewed, a proper Kolsch...Are the characteristics I've mentioned to be expected? I've never had a proper Kolsch so really curious!
 
This may be a moot point, but my contention has always been that if you lager it (in the sense of cold storage, whereby I can't think of any other sense) it is now (by definition) a lager and therefore it is no longer an ale. The yeast argument is (to me) invalid, since genetic mapping has shown some "lager" yeasts to have all along been ale yeasts. WLP800 "Pilsner Urquell" yeast for example.
 
couchsending said:
This yeast is definitely not worth using. As someone who brews Kolsch a lot (close to 20 batches the last few years) and has used every yeast under the sun I wouldn't bother with this yeast again. The cell counts are incredibly low and especially if you’re trying to ferment it on the cold side I’d probably shoot for 3 packs. That’s way too expensive when the benefit of dried yeast is often the cost.

The likelihood that a slow fermentation like you’re experiencing is going to produce anything that you could compare to other yeasts is highly unlikely. Usually you will experience increased acetaldehyde production and subsequent poor cleanup of it and other compounds. You might get lucky but if not I’d try krausening it with your next batch. It’s amazing what it can do.

I’m pretty sure Lallemand Koln is just their version of K-97 which is essentially the dried version of wyeast 1007, German Ale. Although the flocculation does look to be a bit better with Koln. They do say it’s a slow fermenter and can take a while for fermentation to begin. I’d bet it’s just due to the fact that this yeast doesn’t dry well at all. The fact that they talk about hop biotransformation with this yeast and it ferments cold to me sounds exactly like 1007.

wlp029 and Imperial Dieter are the easiest Kolsch strains to use as they are relatively fast, ferment better a little warmer, and flocculate much faster. However they just don’t seem to produce the correct ester profile for me. 2565 is hard to beat from an ester standpoint but it takes so unbelievably long to flocc. When it does it’s great though.

1007 lends a bit more sulphur character and is a bit easier to use than 2565 but not by much. It’s a pretty hardy yeast and doesn’t produce diacetyl above threshold so you can crash it as soon as it hits terminal. It’s used by a decent amount of large craft breweries for this reason, but again needs to be filtered or fined for a quick turnaround.
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I love 029 German ale for just about every beer I make from apa to blonde ale to stout but find the same, for a kolsch, 2565 tastes the best for me.
 
Twinkeelfool said:
I love 029 German ale for just about every beer I make from apa to blonde ale to stout but find the same, for a kolsch, 2565 tastes the best for me.
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None of the shops or breweries near me use, or carry, White Labs. I will be headed up to Asheville in 2 weeks, hurricane willing, and plan to hit up the white labs gift shop for a few yeast strains. A local shop started carrying Imperial yeast not too long ago. I've read that G03 is supposedly WLP029 and G02 is 1007. IF this turns into a tasty brew I plan on rebrewing it with a few different kolsch/german strains. Nothing wrong with an easy drinking, easy brewing, lite ale :)
 
rtstrider said:
None of the shops or breweries near me use, or carry, White Labs. I will be headed up to Asheville in 2 weeks, hurricane willing, and plan to hit up the white labs gift shop for a few yeast strains. A local shop started carrying Imperial yeast not too long ago. I've read that G03 is supposedly WLP029 and G02 is 1007. IF this turns into a tasty brew I plan on rebrewing it with a few different kolsch/german strains. Nothing wrong with an easy drinking, easy brewing, lite ale :)
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The majority of my beers are easy drinkers, especially kegged beers. 029 is very clean and crisp and lets the hops shine. My house ale yeast for sure. Nitro stout I did not long ago worked as well as the hoppy session beers. I don’t like us05, I get peach from it no matter how I brew with it, once I tried 029, never given us05 another thought
 
Kveik kölsch. Still clearing but one more week should take care of that. I think it works.

20201006_163923.jpg
 
Silver_Is_Money said:
This may be a moot point, but my contention has always been that if you lager it (in the sense of cold storage, whereby I can't think of any other sense) it is now (by definition) a lager and therefore it is no longer an ale. The yeast argument is (to me) invalid, since genetic mapping has shown some "lager" yeasts to have all along been ale yeasts. WLP800 "Pilsner Urquell" yeast for example.
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Good point, But what of fermentation temperature? I think this is where the term hybrid beer comes in which I've heard Kolsch called before.
 
"Hybrid beer" is one of those phrases that predates us understanding just what a mixed bag of yeast species get used to produce certain styles. So the idea of fermenting a cerevisiae (ale) cool to make kolsch or a pastorianus (lager) warm to make steam beers was considered such exceptions that they were considered their own distinct family of beer. But then most macro lager is fermented at close to ale temperatures - they have forgiving yeast like 34/70 and the hydrostatic pressure of their huge fermenters suppresses most esters.

As SiM said, we now know the reality is so messy - there's even commercial lager being made with members of the saison family - that the idea of putting beers in nice tidy boxes based on yeast type just gets meaningless.
 
Well pulled a gravity sample and taste sample last night and it's the same so it's cold crashing now. I probably wouldn't use that yeast again for this brew. It would work VERY well in an American Hefeweizen though imo. I think marketing this as a "neutral" strain is very misleading. Nothing neutral about this at all. It has light hefeweizen written all over it. It honestly reminds me of Wyeast 3056. Not in your face but the ester/phenols are still there. Yes I said phenols lol. That could be my own fault for unknowingly underpitching and potentially stressing the yeast. The jury is still out on this though. I'm cold crashing for 48 hours at 33f, fining with gelatin for 48 hours, bottling, and will bottle lager once this is carbed. I will be trying the German Ale (either 1007 or preferrably the Imperial variant if the lhbs has it on hand) in a few months. Either way this was not what I was going for.

Edit: I'm actually headed to the LHBS tomorrow. It's a brewery as well and the owner is a BJCP judge. I'll bring a sample of this and see what they say. I'll report back
 
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rtstrider said:
Well pulled a gravity sample and taste sample last night and it's the same so it's cold crashing now. I probably wouldn't use that yeast again for this brew. It would work VERY well in an American Hefeweizen though imo. I think marketing this as a "neutral" strain is very misleading. Nothing neutral about this at all. It has light hefeweizen written all over it. It honestly reminds me of Wyeast 3056. Not in your face but the ester/phenols are still there. Yes I said phenols lol. That could be my own fault for unknowingly underpitching and potentially stressing the yeast. The jury is still out on this though. I'm cold crashing for 48 hours at 33f, fining with gelatin for 48 hours, bottling, and will bottle lager once this is carbed. I will be trying the German Ale (either 1007 or preferrably the Imperial variant if the lhbs has it on hand) in a few months. Either way this was not what I was going for.

Edit: I'm actually headed to the LHBS tomorrow. It's a brewery as well and the owner is a BJCP judge. I'll bring a sample of this and see what they say. I'll report back
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I picked up a slight hefe character on the first keg pour of my kölach. It dissipated right away though.
 
rhys333 said:
I picked up a slight hefe character on the first keg pour of my kölach. It dissipated right away though.
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Honestly that's what I'm hoping for. Lagering/Cold storage can help a good bit of things. It's definitely very yeasty
 
I officially hate the lallemand Koln yeast. This batch is a dumper. It has clove in it. It was from an under pitch and massive lag time I’m assuming. Aka stressed yeast. Why sell this in dry yeast yeast form when you can just get liquid yeast and build a more viable starter/culture for a fraction of the cost? Well I guess the voss will be used this weekend and for German ale/kolsch it’s absolutely liquid yeast with starter or bust!

ps This would make a good American Hefeweizen strain as mentioned above. Kolsch...Absolutely not
 

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