'New' Lallemand Yeasts - New England and Kolsch

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rtstrider

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It’s been over 12 hours and no krausen on the starter. This is an over pitch and a stir plate! Not giving up yet though. Going to give it overnight on the stir plate before I really start worrying. So far not a fan of this yeast at all. I would be curious to see what happens if this ferments out, I freeze it, then step it up. Have a gut feeling it may kick off just a tad quicker that way
 

rtstrider

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It’s now been around 24 hours. The starter color change is very slight but no signs of krausen. I’ll pull a gravity reading tonight to see if my suspicions are correct and this has fermented out
 

rtstrider

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Took a gravity sample and it hasn’t budged. It’s still around 1.044. Overshot my og just a bit due to boil off. Figured the refractometer couldn’t be right. I tasted a sample of the starter and it’s right on the money. Tastes like nothing has happened yet. Not giving up just yet. Will wait a few more days
 

rtstrider

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Went to look at the starter and finally have krausen at 36 hours after yeast pitch. I’m beginning to think pitch rate may not have much to do in regards to lowering lag time with this kolsch yeast. This was an 11 gram pack pitched straight into 2 liters 1.040 wort so it was a pretty hefty over pitch
 

rtstrider

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The kolsch starter has finally finished fermenting out. This was really weird. Insanely long lag time, then it tore up the starter like it was nobodies business! It’s currently cold crashing to get ready to split up into frozen vials. I plan on using this within the next few months. I’ll keep everyone posted on the characteristics of the yeast as I continue to play with it.
 

rtstrider

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The fact that your pitch rate ended up being so low and it took so long to get started makes me think that you got some sort of growth from another yeast strain (commercial or wild) in the time it took the Koln yeast to get going. It only takes a very small amount of POF+ yeast cells to end up with noticeable phenols in the final beer.

With say a normal fermentation where you get a much faster start the pitching yeast is out competing everything rather quickly.

When I used this strain I used two packs and never experienced any phenolics. I don’t exactly remember but pretty sure it started and finished in an acceptable time frame. I just didn’t like the character of the yeast itself.

In Lallemand’s defense they put the pitching rate right on the packaging and have a pitching rate calculator for each strain on their website. This is honestly more info and transparency than you get from the other dry yeast manufacturers.

Dry yeast viability is all over the map depending on the strain. you can find data where people have done cell counts and some strains have 3x the amount of viable cells per gram. You can’t use the same approach to every yeast and expect the same result.
Pitch rate doesn’t seem to make a difference in lag time with this strain. See my most recent posts. If anything it took longer to start fermentation. I’m bound and determined now to finally get something brewed successfully with this strain. Hoping building up previously frozen slurry in stepped starter (stir plate) will help lower lag times
 

couchsending

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Pitch rate doesn’t seem to make a difference in lag time with this strain. See my most recent posts. If anything it took longer to start fermentation. I’m bound and determined now to finally get something brewed successfully with this strain. Hoping building up previously frozen slurry in stepped starter (stir plate) will help lower lag times
Love your determination but IMHO it’s not really worth the hassle. There are better Kolsch strains in liquid form and you seem like you’ve got yeast handling under control.

East Coast Yeast Kolschbier is the strain I love and have been making Kolsch and Altbier with lately. It’s an old Brewtek strain that Al got from a bank. It’s different than any other commercial available Kolsch strain. Floccs like 029 but more character like 2565. Highly recommend!
 

rtstrider

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Love your determination but IMHO it’s not really worth the hassle. There are better Kolsch strains in liquid form and you seem like you’ve got yeast handling under control.

East Coast Yeast Kolschbier is the strain I love and have been making Kolsch and Altbier with lately. It’s an old Brewtek strain that Al got from a bank. It’s different than any other commercial available Kolsch strain. Floccs like 029 but more character like 2565. Highly recommend!
Thanks! I’ll definitely have to give that a try. However I’m bound and determined to finally make beer with this yeast lol I don’t take Homebrew failure lightly! Maybe I’m a tad too obsessive but at the end of the day I want to learn and make beer :)
 

Jsmith2154

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My go to last year was WY2575 I was intrigued by this news release but scared away due to early feedback from this thread. I have moved to north Dallas and am wondering if switching to dry will be more economical and viable here. I appreciate @rtstrider stick-to-it-ivness and looking forward to an update. Any feedback on K97?
 

rtstrider

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My go to last year was WY2575 I was intrigued by this news release but scared away due to early feedback from this thread. I have moved to north Dallas and am wondering if switching to dry will be more economical and viable here. I appreciate @rtstrider stick-to-it-ivness and looking forward to an update. Any feedback on K97?
I know a local microbrewery that mostly uses dry yeast. The brewer loves (K-97) it there and says it’s pretty close to Wyeast 1007. Both are on my to do list. I’m ordering parts for a kegerator this weekend. Plan is to brew the same recipe with Imperial G03 (built up from Homebrew bottle slurry for giggles), Wyeast 1007, and the Lallemand yeast built up from frozen slurry. The recipe is my take on Karbach Love Street Blonde Ale. Want to do a few side by side comparisons and see just how different the yeasts really are :)
 

NTexBrewer

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I’m wondering if this yeast likes warmer temperatures. I’m at day 5 with my fermentation and it is done.

Recipe:
100% Pilsner Malt
RO Water with Gypsum and Calcium Chloride added to get 50mg Calcium, 66mg Chloride, 29mg Sulfate. Used Lactic acid to get a mash pH of 5.4

Step Mash, 20 Minutes at 122°F, 30 minutes at 148°F, 30 minutes at 158°F and mashout at 170°F. eBIAB system so no sparge but I did add 1 gallon of water to get my boil volume.

60 Minute boil, 1 oz German Tradition at 60 minutes, 1 oz German Hersbrucker at 30 minutes.

1 package of Lallemand Kolsch. I rehydrate all of my dry yeast with Go-Ferm using the following steps. Add 200ml of 100°F water to a 500ml beaker. Use 1 gram of Go-Ferm per 1 Gram of yeast and put JUST the Go-Ferm on my stir plate and stir for 10-20 minutes. So for this brew, I used 11 grams of Go-Ferm. I then add the yeast and spin for additional 10-20 minutes or until it is pitching time. I usually cover the beaker with sanitized foil or plastic wrap.

Temperature controlled fermentation set to 65 degrees. I think at one time during the peak the temperature may have read 67 but it stayed pretty close to 65-66 the entire time.

I use a Tilt Hydrometer so when the gravity was at 1.019, I added a spunding valve set to 29 psi to give me hopefully a natural carbonation level of 2.5volumes. Looks like my final gravity is around 1.011 so I’m planning to let it sit for a few more days before starting a slow cold crash. No sample tasting yet, I’ll do that when it is cold crashed since it is carbonated at such a high pressure.

EA178CC0-95F3-4133-BF92-375B5B610812.png
 

NTexBrewer

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Update! As you can see I’m having some clarity issues. I was trying a new method of transferring beer from the fermenter to the keg under pressure and I had lots of trub from the fermenter get into the keg. I still may add some gelatin to see if that helps. Flavor wise this is not a bad beer. I’m getting some floral aroma along with some winey and a little sulphur. Taste is similar to the aroma accept I’m not getting any sulfur but a definite mineral flavor. Over all I say it is in the style guidelines. Not as fruity as Früh. Maybe closer to Mühlen if my memory serve me correct. My preference is for a more fruity Kölsch so I might use a different yeast or ferment Lallamand yeast a little warmer next time.


5A6747F9-8AAC-493F-A005-272DD50AD742.jpeg
 

sykesey

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Could just get a floating dip tube for your keg :) but gelatin, cold temp and time should do the trick.

Been a while since i put a batch on but when i do I'll probably even push it up to 20-21C (68-70f) to get more expression from the yeast.
 

AZ Maverick

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I just brewed a Kölsch extract in January with the LalBrew Köln Kölsch yeast.
Pitched into an OG 1.050 on 1/24/21 at 68° F, it finished at FG 1.011 on 2/6/21 - 5.2% ABV.
Then I ramped it down to 58° F until 1/30/21, then I fined with gelatin and cold crashed at 31° F for four days.
Nice and clear and tasted great to me - I'll most certainly be using the Lal Köln yeast again.

Kolsch_1.jpg
 

couchsending

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If you haven’t used the Kolschbier yeast from East Coast Yeast yet and you like to brew Kolsch I’d highly highly recommend it.

More character than 029 but similar flocculation.

I like 2565 but it’s so damn powdery. I do lager Kolsch for 3-4 weeks but it still won’t drop brilliant sometimes.

I’ve used everything under the sun for Kolsch, 2565, 2575, 1007, 003, 011, 029, Gigayeast Kolsch, Lallemand, English yeasts at 54, etc. The ECY strain is a great blend of character and ease of use.
 

nreed

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Just found this thread after sampling my Kolsch 8 days into fermentation. I pitched 2 packs of rehydrated Koln yeast into 1.045 wort.

Very slow start, but when it started after 48 hours it’s just kept going since. I’m down to 1.008 - expected is 1.006. Temp has been controlled at 17°C.

The smell is pretty phenolic to me and I’m really hoping it dies down during the rest of fermentation and bottle conditioning.

I’ll try and update on progress but wanted to post here to give a +1 to the this yeast has some pretty strong phenol vibes!
 

sykesey

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I never got any phenols from mine. Maybe a low grade infection or stress?
 

ba-brewer

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I pitched two packs of rehydrated koln yeast and after 36hr at 66F and no activity I got nervous and toss in a pack of 34/70.

The yeast puffed up good on rehydration and smelled good when I pitched, so it is strange that it would not make any progress in 36hrs. The wort was oxygenated so I dont know that had anything to do with it or not.

Been 2 days since I pitched the 34/70 and it is already attenuated 71%. The fermentor smells a bit fruity, no sulfur but there is a bit of weird flavor, not phenolic just different. Got a feeling this is not going to end well but I will let it finish.
 

ThenFalcon

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I pitched two packs of rehydrated koln yeast and after 36hr at 66F and no activity I got nervous and toss in a pack of 34/70.

The yeast puffed up good on rehydration and smelled good when I pitched, so it is strange that it would not make any progress in 36hrs. The wort was oxygenated so I dont know that had anything to do with it or not.
Every time I have used the Koln yeast it has taken around 48h to get going. The last time I didn't rehydrate and it might have taken even a bit longer. It has always finished well though.
 

ba-brewer

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Every time I have used the Koln yeast it has taken around 48h to get going. The last time I didn't rehydrate and it might have taken even a bit longer. It has always finished well though.
Did you see any activity prior to that?

I have had slow yeast before, but I would see an occasional bubble or some attenuation. The wort was fairly clear and no movement in gravity. As fast it attenuated if is possible it did wake up and helped.
 

rtstrider

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Did you see any activity prior to that?

I have had slow yeast before, but I would see an occasional bubble or some attenuation. The wort was fairly clear and no movement in gravity. As fast it attenuated if is possible it did wake up and helped.
I pitched a full pack (unrehydrated) into 1.040 wort on a stir plate. Took about 3 days to get going. Pitch rate doesn't seem to be a culprit with lag time and this yeast. It's just DOG slow.
 

stealthfixr

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The Koln Kolsch yeast is the most sluggish fermenter I have ever used. All grain batch, 1.046 OG, 2 packets pitched without rehydration, pure O2 oxygenation, yeast nutrient used, held at 62F with glycol chiller...took almost 36 hours to get krausen and the start of fermentation. Yikes!
 

rtstrider

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The Koln Kolsch yeast is the most sluggish fermenter I have ever used. All grain batch, 1.046 OG, 2 packets pitched without rehydration, pure O2 oxygenation, yeast nutrient used, held at 62F with glycol chiller...took almost 36 hours to get krausen and the start of fermentation. Yikes!
Yeah I'm really curious to see how a stepped starter works here. My hunch is if anything that'd be the best bet, if any, to cut down on the sluggishness. Will be trying that in a few months. Have quite a few other yeasts to burn through till then though. Aka I want to have a nice pipeline going so if another batch is a dumper then it's not a huge loss
 

ColonialBrewer

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Just curious, anyone repitch the slurry of Koln after a slow start, does that also take a long time to get going?
I have repitched a third of the slurry of my blonde ale of this yeast into a Cream Ale 1045og, at 66f, and it was fermenting nicely within 8 hours to 10 hours. It did take longer on the first use to get starteed however. I find it so far to be quite a nice yeast, attenuates well, dropped clear for me, and once conditioned after a few weeks the flavours are quite pleasant and crisp.
 

ba-brewer

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I was able to identify the weird flavor and aroma I got from my kolsch I started with koln yeast, it is the smell of green olives. Guessing that is not either of the known yeasts I pitched and is something wild.

I kegged it and had it in the cooler for a couple week before trying to run CO2 to try and scrub the smell/flavor. At three weeks plus of cold conditioning still got the olive smell. I warmed it up and tossed in some simcoe hops to see if that will mask the smell and flavor.
 

Garage12brewing

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I started to have success with dry yeast when I started to hydrate them. Its fairly easy to do during the cooling of the wort process prior to pitching....

Before doing the correct process of hydratation, SOMETIMES I wasnt impressed by the flavors I was getting. I love Lallemand yeast especially the Verdant IPA, American East coast, American West coast and the Nottingham. Thats the ones I used. You need to use the correct amount of yeast. Sometimes I used 1 1/2 packet instead of 2 packet. Overpitching is still possible...

I started to use more dry yeast because of the pandemic. It last longer and safer to order by mail. I ordered 2 times liquid yeast wit hice pack and they died because it took too long to arrive....

I dont understand why some people hate dry yeast. Ok you dont have all the choices that you have in the liquid yeast company but it CAN make great beer.
 

muddy1015

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@rtstrider I'm getting the same clove-y thing I think with mine. I pitched 2 packs of Koln in 5 gallons of 1.050 OG. The lag was around 36 hours. Fermented a week at 58 then let rise naturally to 65 where I've had it for another week. It's still only down to 1.016 (mash was 2 hours at 148 specifically to get attenuation) and the taste/smell is just not good. Strong clove type flavor and maybe some sulfur and/or acetaldehyde. Probably going to give it another week then cold crash and see what happens, but not hopeful based on where it's currently at.
 

rtstrider

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@rtstrider I'm getting the same clove-y thing I think with mine. I pitched 2 packs of Koln in 5 gallons of 1.050 OG. The lag was around 36 hours. Fermented a week at 58 then let rise naturally to 65 where I've had it for another week. It's still only down to 1.016 (mash was 2 hours at 148 specifically to get attenuation) and the taste/smell is just not good. Strong clove type flavor and maybe some sulfur and/or acetaldehyde. Probably going to give it another week then cold crash and see what happens, but not hopeful based on where it's currently at.
I'll say this much. I tasted the Koln kolsch slurry and starter when this was banked up. The pack that was banked up and froze was sent to me directly from Lallemand. It didn't have the clove hint to it. It may not be a bad idea to reach out to Lallemand and let them know when/where you purchased this. I'm beginning to think there may be, or have been, some QA issues with this new strain. I do plan on building up the frozen slurry in the next few months and brewing a simple Kolsch with it. If I read the numbers right the step up SHOULD get in the 400-450 billion yeast cells range at pitch. This is my hail mary. I refuse to take defeat lightly lol
 
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