New Grains (and hops)

[bransona]

I've brewed up 10 batches and have only one left in my original order of 2-row American pale. I'm ordering some pilsner next to learn about and play with. What differences can I expect here?

Also ordering my first wheat. White malted wheat and torrified wheat, yet again to play with and learn. What can I expect here?

Same with dingemanns biscuit malt.

Also, I'm ordering more two row with this because it's cheaper than marris otter. I'm planning on toasting my two row for the first time. What can I expect from this? Is there a way to sub some toasted two row and get close to marris otter?

Also gonna be playing with amarillo, cascade, and huell melon for the first time(s)! Any hints or ideas for these?

Thanks in advance and happy brew year's!

 

[bransona]

Shameless self bump

 

[Queequeg]

I can comment on the wheat.

Fortified has an assertive grainy flavor if used in significant amounts which is normally considered undesirable. Wheat malt at similar quantities will add a sweetness and mouth feel that I quite distinct and commonly desirable.

Both assist with head retention but my experience is that torrified wheat provides the bets affect on head of the two.

You can use as little as 3% torrfied for head retention and about 5% for the malt.

Pilsner malt is going to be a bit lighter and more grainer, often with that distinct DMS flavor. Increasing the boil to 90 mins can avoid that character.

 

[bransona]

I can comment on the wheat.

Fortified has an assertive grainy flavor if used in significant amounts which is normally considered undesirable. Wheat malt at similar quantities will add a sweetness and mouth feel that I quite distinct and commonly desirable.

Both assist with head retention but my experience is that torrified wheat provides the bets affect on head of the two.

You can use as little as 3% torrfied for head retention and about 5% for the malt.

Pilsner malt is going to be a bit lighter and more grainer, often with that distinct DMS flavor. Increasing the boil to 90 mins can avoid that character.

First off, love the name. Lol.

Ok, makes sense. I'll be using the wheat for exactly that (as I don't have a means of hefeweizen-levels of cold for my fermentation), so that's very helpful.

I haven't ordered this yet, so I can still get anything. Will the pilsner give me any maltiness? Or is it just grainy? I was aiming to use it in Belgians, pale ales, and maybe experimenting with replacing one of my two row recipes with it to see the diff. If it's just grainy, I may stick with two row and get some victory, Munich, or something like that. The two row is just so cheap. I've even got candi sugar and special b at my disposal, so could I Belgian with two row?

 

[JonM]

Pilsner and 2-row are very different, but the differences are kind of hard to describe (for me, at least). One thing I enjoyed doing was experimenting with the mash temp with Pilsner. It makes a fantastic lawnmower beer or a Patersbier when mashed around 149, but it also makes a really interesting and tasty beer when mashed higher.

Since you have white wheat, 5lbs of Pilsner and 5 lbs of white wheat make an awesome hefeweizen.

You have some great flavor/aroma hops there. I have started using hops like that only in whirlpool/hopstand additions with great results.

 

[bransona]

Pilsner and 2-row are very different, but the differences are kind of hard to describe (for me, at least). One thing I enjoyed doing was experimenting with the mash temp with Pilsner. It makes a fantastic lawnmower beer or a Patersbier when mashed around 149, but it also makes a really interesting and tasty beer when mashed higher.

Since you have white wheat, 5lbs of Pilsner and 5 lbs of white wheat make an awesome hefeweizen.

You have some great flavor/aroma hops there. I have started using hops like that only in whirlpool/hopstand additions with great results.

I bitter with nugget a lot, and use a ton of whirlpool and hopstand too! Juicy hops are best hops

 

[JonM]

(as I don't have a means of hefeweizen-levels of cold for my fermentation),

They don't need to be cold like lagers or anything. I always do hefeweizens at 62F.\

Oh, and I wouldn't describe Pilsner as "grainy" at all. It has a nice malty sweetness when mashed a little higher.

 

[bransona]

They don't need to be cold like lagers or anything. I always do hefeweizens at 62F.\

Oh, and I wouldn't describe Pilsner as "grainy" at all. It has a nice malty sweetness when mashed a little higher.

Could it roll between 62-64 and still be ok? I can handle that much.

That's perfect, actually. Malty is great. I'm excited to play with a new base malt!

 

[bransona]

Also how is pilsner with specialties and adjuncts? Does it frequently need a diastatic booster like two row? I've seen it as 85-90%, but what if I was making a porter with 25% specialties and adjuncts?

 

[JonM]

Could it roll between 62-64 and still be ok? I can handle that much.

That's perfect, actually. Malty is great. I'm excited to play with a new base malt!

62-64 for 3068 hefeweizen yeast is the perfect temperature range.

 

[bransona]

62-64 for 3068 hefeweizen yeast is the perfect temperature range.

Awesome ! However, I'm currently still a college student/cheap a$$, so I stick with dry yeast. Just no room or money to make and save liquid yeasts (...yet). I was considering a hefe with s-33 or Windsor, but only because they're on hand. Fermentis is my favorite brand. Any particular dry yeast you could advocate using?

 

[IslandLizard]

Also how is pilsner with specialties and adjuncts? Does it frequently need a diastatic booster like two row? I've seen it as 85-90%, but what if I was making a porter with 25% specialties and adjuncts?

Pilsner malts being lighter, less kilned, tend to have higher diastatic power (DP) than 2-row or pale malts, 120-140°L (degrees Lintner) being common. Now the under-modified Pilsner malts, such as Floor Malted Bohemian Pilsner Malt, will have lower DP, even as low as 60-80°L.

As long as the average DP of your grist remains above 35°L it should be convertible.* See this BeerSmith article.

* Only include the grain that needs to be converted. Aside from all malts, include raw and flaked grains, but exclude the darker specialty grains 40° Lovibond and up.

 

[bransona]

Pilsner malts being lighter, less kilned, tend to have higher diastatic power (DP) than 2-row or pale malts, 120-140°L (degrees Lintner) being common. Now the under-modified Pilsner malts, such as Floor Malted Bohemian Pilsner Malt, will have lower DP, even as low as 60-80°L.

As long as the average DP of your grist remains above 35°L it should be convertible.* See this BeerSmith article.

* Only include the grain that needs to be converted. So include raw and flaked grains, but exclude the darker specialty grains 40° Lovibond and up.

Thanks so much! That's the most concise explanation of that I've seen

 

[JonM]

If you can get your hands on Abita Andygator, that's a pretty good example of what Pilsner does when mashed at higher temps.

 

[IslandLizard]

Most Pilsner worts are traditionally boiled for 90 minutes rather than 60 minutes for regular 2-row or pale malt based worts. This is to drive off SMM, a DMS precursor. As it turns out, many of today's highly modified (Pilsner) malts have reduced SMM levels and thus can be boiled shorter. See Brülosopher's write up on this exbeeriment.