New Brewer Wants to get SPICY

[skoodog]

Not sure if this is the place to be asking this question or not, but hey...I'm new.

I went to my LHBS to pick up ingredients to brew w/ some seasoned vets who invited me into their inner sanctum this coming Saturday to embark on what may become a new obsession. My intent was to start w/ a Pliny the Elder clone, but after pricing the ingredients I figured that was a lot of coin to throw away on something that may not work. The LHBS talked me out of the Pliny clone and handed me their simple stout recipe since according to them it's a forgiving first brew. The recipe (sans instructions) printed below:

6 lbs Pale LME
3/4 lb Roasted Barley
1/4 lb British Crystal 135L
0.8 oz Northdown 10.6% (60 min)
Wyeast 1084 (Irish Ale)

Upon picking out these ingredients I wished to embark on an adaptation adding Christmas spices to the bill as per this recipe. However I don't want to waste the ingredients I've already purchased, so...could I essentially do the brew as the instructions say, adding the spice mixture as the second recipe states, or does the malt extract/grain bill need to be changed? My concern is the different proportions of caramalts/dark grains and higher malt extracts.

Thanks in advance for the help!

 

[sparkyaber]

If it was me, I would brew just as stated in the original recipe, then go back, buy one more kit, and try it with the added spices. You are going to make beer no matter what. It is nice on the first few go 'rounds if you practice on getting all of the steps down, then start playing with recipes, addiditions and the like. When it comes to adding stuff to beer, the possibilities are endless. If you do add the spices, it may not taste like the recipe you linked to, it may be better. It may be worse. The only way to find out is to make both and compare. I know this probably did not help much, but that is my take on it.

 

[Richabt]

I'd have to agree with Sparky. Get the basics down first. Beyond that just about anything is possible.

 

[HiGravShawn]

Aw man... you just missed (like two days ago) AustinHomeBrew was having a special on a Pliny the Edler kit. I think it was like 20-30 bucks off!

 

[skoodog]

Thanks for the help! Unfortunately, I am stubborn and will do as I damn well please in regards to customizing the brew.

My main question I think I answered myself with some research with yet another recipe that has a more similar extract/grain bill to mine but less spice and different timings (for instance they add during the boil as opposed to after) which I may end up doing instead. But of course that adds more questions of what to do in regards to the honey. The honey will mainly give the brew a nice head and increase the FG since it's a sugar, correct?

Thanks in advance!

 

[sparkyaber]

If you don't already have it, brewsmith is the way to go. You can plug and play anything you want and see the potential results (adding the honey). To answer your question, yes it will increase the O.G. of the beer, as well as other things. One other thought, if you do add afterwords, use half the amount listed, and split the batch? I have done this before with great results, letting me try something I wasn't sure would work. (I added mint to a stout).

 

[TexLaw]

You know what? If you are going to do whatever you want to do, go ahead and do just that. If you are getting into spiced beers, it's all a matter of what you want out of the spices and the final beer, and only you know that.

You're getting some good advice here, and it's not going to change. I agree with the others. Learn how to brew beer, and then start playing around. Understand how to fry an egg before you try a souffle. You might wind up with a fantastic souffle, but you really won't know why.

If I sound a bit harsh, it is because you would be astounded at the number of folks that come on here and want to brew, as their first batch, some sort of Vanilla, Pumpkin, Christmas-spiced, Coconut, Smoked Honey Imperial Ancho Oyster Kriek Lambic aged in a Bourbon barrel for sixteen months with a rooster's tail, an angel's wing, and the latest Modest Mouse EP. Then, four weeks (or days) later, they come back and say "what's wrong with my beer?" No one can tell them, because they cannot say quite what they did, what it smells like, or what it tastes like because there are so many moving parts in that recipe.

So, I'm taking it out on you, but half (only half) in jest. Welcome to the hobby and the obsession.


TL

P.S. Honey does not increase head retention or FG. With regards to "sugar," honey is virtually 100% fermentable, so it all ferments out (no FG increase) and nothing is left to help form or hold a head. It will boost the ABV, and it may leave very mild honey flavor and aroma (depending on the honey you use and the rest of the recipe). Like I we suggested, start simply. Learn to a brew a basic beer and build a foundation. There is plenty of time to get into all the rest of the stuff.

 

[Effington]

That reminds me, I need to rack my Float On IPA onto Modest Mouse chips in secondary...

 

[beerthirty]

+1 texlaw. You will also find that by altering the yeast and hops you can get many spicy flavors to come out naturally in the beer without having to add other stuff to the brew.

 

[Handle]

If I sound a bit harsh, it is because you would be astounded at the number of folks that come on here and want to brew, as their first batch, some sort of Vanilla, Pumpkin, Christmas-spiced, Coconut, Smoked Honey Imperial Ancho Oyster Kriek Lambic aged in a Bourbon barrel for sixteen months with a rooster's tail, an angel's wing, and the latest Modest Mouse EP.

This is one of the funniest things I've read during my very short time on the forum.

As a newbie who has yet to brew his first batch but has dreams of Habanero Capsicumel and Chocolate Chipotle Stout, I can relate.

 

[Jamo99]

The LHBS talked me out of the Pliny clone and handed me their simple stout recipe since according to them it's a forgiving first brew.

I'm suprised that you walked in wanting a IIPA and they talked you into a stout. A hoppy APA or a regular IPA would not break the bank and the hops would hide brewing flaws just as well as a stout, but be more similar to the brew that you had in mind. If you like stouts though, then you'll be pleased with that recipe.

I think that you should brew the recipe as is, BUT, if you want to spice it, I suggest leaving the spices out of the boil. Soak you're spice mixture in some vodka to leech out the flavors. Taste the brew when you are getting close to bottling time. The best way to get the proper spice profile is to take a measured amount of your fermented brew, add a measured amount of spice tincture, then taste. Do it a few times until you get it where you want, then scale it up for a full batch. Or you may think that the beer tastes great as is and that the spicing is totally unnecessary, at least you don't commit to spicing right away, but you still ahve the option.

It is an added step, and maybe daunting for a beginner, which is why everyone is suggesting to keep it simple. If you brew a great first beer, you are more likely to catch the brewing bug and will ahve more than enough time to experiment with spicing and whatnot as you brew more batches. All that said, do whatever you want! Homebrewing allows us that freedom, but be warned that it is easy to overspice a brew.

Oh and spiced brews typically take a much longer time to condition so that they are at their best and drinkable. I'm sure with your first brew you won't be able to wait and each bottle will have a pretty harsh spice flavor.

 

[skoodog]

+1 texlaw. You will also find that by altering the yeast and hops you can get many spicy flavors to come out naturally in the beer without having to add other stuff to the brew.

Even this stubborn bastard won't mess with the living animal before his first brew.

Just tried a little experiment - put a mixture of the spices I planned to use on my tongue and washed em down with a swig - all kinds of magic on the palette. Of course I'm not brewing Old Rasputin but it brought forth its own questions within the experiment itself...

 

[skoodog]

I'm suprised that you walked in wanting a IIPA and they talked you into a stout. A hoppy APA or a regular IPA would not break the bank and the hops would hide brewing flaws just as well as a stout, but be more similar to the brew that you had in mind. If you like stouts though, then you'll be pleased with that recipe.

I think that you should brew the recipe as is, BUT, if you want to spice it, I suggest leaving the spices out of the boil. Soak you're spice mixture in some vodka to leech out the flavors. Taste the brew when you are getting close to bottling time. The best way to get the proper spice profile is to take a measured amount of your fermented brew, add a measured amount of spice tincture, then taste. Do it a few times until you get it where you want, then scale it up for a full batch. Or you may think that the beer tastes great as is and that the spicing is totally unnecessary, at least you don't commit to spicing right away, but you still ahve the option.

It is an added step, and maybe daunting for a beginner, which is why everyone is suggesting to keep it simple. If you brew a great first beer, you are more likely to catch the brewing bug and will ahve more than enough time to experiment with spicing and whatnot as you brew more batches. All that said, do whatever you want! Homebrewing allows us that freedom, but be warned that it is easy to overspice a brew.

Oh and spiced brews typically take a much longer time to condition so that they are at their best and drinkable. I'm sure with your first brew you won't be able to wait and each bottle will have a pretty harsh spice flavor.

Thank you!!! That was exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for. Many spice beers recommend putting spice in during the boil so this helps me figure out what I need to do w/ my honey/spice tincture.

 

[beerthirty]

Even this stubborn bastard won't mess with the living animal before his first brew.

Just tried a little experiment - put a mixture of the spices I planned to use on my tongue and washed em down with a swig - all kinds of magic on the palette. Of course I'm not brewing Old Rasputin but it brought forth its own questions within the experiment itself...

Grasshoppa, in time you will understand, then you can take this pebble from my hand.

 

[Jamo99]

Thank you!!! That was exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for. Many spice beers recommend putting spice in during the boil so this helps me figure out what I need to do w/ my honey/spice tincture.

I would put the honey in at flameout. You don't want to boil it long because you will lose the delicate properties. These delicate properties are maintained even better if you add it during fermentation, but I think the roastiness and the spicing in your recipe will drown them out anyway. So honey at flameout, spice tincture at bottling, but you may be pleased with the beer as is. Even with the tincture, spiced beers still take a longer time to meld flavors and really hit their stride.

Personally I find it hard to drink a number of spiced beers at a time. You could bottle half regular and scale your spice mix for the last 2.5 gallons that you bottle that day. Just dump it into your bottling bucket after you bottle the first half. Best of both worlds.

 

[RDWHAHB]

I say do it! Lots of people here have a very rigid path one must follow in their brewing. Homebrewing is all about experimentation. Just take good notes, and be willing to "lose out" on a few bad experiments. I have many beers that I have modified the recipe before brewing. There is one that I have brewed 5x now, & I haven't made the base brew yet.

I don't think you'll need to change your malt extract any.

Jeff

 

[skoodog]

Oh and spiced brews typically take a much longer time to condition so that they are at their best and drinkable. I'm sure with your first brew you won't be able to wait and each bottle will have a pretty harsh spice flavor.

So I finished bottling this beer a week ago and cracked a bottle w/ my fellow brewer and I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised, specifically since my final product was totally not what i expected.

When transferring to the bottling bucket we noticed a fantastic banana bread aroma - more than just banana esters but the way the pure vanilla extract worked its way into the beer really invoke baked banana bread. Interesting that the irish ale yeast yielded this kind of flavor.

After 6 days of bottle conditioning, the smell stayed the same - excellent head retention, fantastic opaque midnight brown as what you'd expect out of a stout. The sweetness invoked by the spice tincture balanced things out but I'm going to say I'm a little disappointed there wasn't more complexity to the spices. It's one of the most drinkable beers I've had and just a wee bit stronger than the typical brew (my brew buddy's hydrometer was broken so we couldn't take OG/FG readings - anyone know how to do this after the fact?).

I had a question for the experts out there - how long should i let it sit at fermentation temps (aka 68-71) before transferring it to the fridge? I think the rule of thumb is 2 weeks but given the addition of the fermentable sugars (honey) should i wait longer? What is your advice?

Thanks in advance and thanks to all who gave me feedback!