New Brewer, New recipe - please give your opinion!

[propush]

Hello everyone!

My name is Avichay (A-vi-CHAY, in case you care :] ), and I'm a new brewer. I actually started with all grain, and made a La-chouffe clone, which was EXCELLENT! Everything went very well with it. In fact, it went SO well, that I gained the confidence to go ahead and try to create my own recipe.

Obviously, accept for some theoretical knowledge, I do not have much experience with creating beer recipes. So I figured I'd ask some of you more experienced guys for your opinions prior to brewing it! I kindly ask that you explain the changes you recommend.

The availability of ingredients in my country is limited. Therefore, I was forced to choose certain ingredients. Please - if you just want to offer a very similar ingredient to what I got in the recipe - don't, I probably cant get the ingredients anyways :[

What will this beer be about (if you do not want to read a lot, go ahead to the table or the Hopville link, and see the recipe.):

This will be an extra special bitter style beer. I tasted some beers that are based on this style and are made locally, and I really loved them. I do not know what they had in them, beside one, which only had CARAFA as specialty malt (they were kind enough to write that on the bottle!).

This beer is to be deep ember in color, sweet tasting with caramel and other sweet tastes present. The sweetness is to be balanced with reasonable bitterness, appropriate to the extra special bitter style. I chose English hops, obviously. I also want it to have a bit of body, and a reasonable head retention.

I also ask specifically about water to grist ratio. The actual total amount of water - will be determined by a calculator, according to the batch size (correct me if I am wrong)

So, without further talking, here it is:

Hopville link: http://hopville.com/recipe/1643066

And in text:
All units are METRIC. Hops in GRAMS and grain in KILOGRAMS.

Batch size: 20L (~5.3 gallons):

water to grist ratio:????

Recipe type: All grain

Mash schedule: single infusion (mash 1 hour at 67C (153F))

Grain bill
Crystal 20 L 0.50 KG (1.1 LB)
Crystal 40 L 0.20 KG (0.44 LB)
Carapils 0.20 KG (0.44 LB)
Chocolate Malt 0.08 KG (0.18 LB)
Pale Ale Pearl 4.50 KG (9.92 LB)


Hops
Fuggle, Bittering, flavor 50g
East Kent Gloding, flavor & aroma 20g


Boil schedule
Time Addition Amount GR (Ounce)
60 Fuggles 40(1.41) Bittering
15 Fuggles 10(0.35) Flavor
15 East Kent Goldings 10(0.35) Flavor
5 East Kent Golding 10(0.35) Aroma
5 Irish moss 5(0.18, one teaspoon)

Yest: Munton's gold DRY yeast, with high flocculation and 73% attenuation.
(Yeast availability in my country is VERY LIMMITED)

Parameters:
O.G. :1.057 (1.050-1.059)
F.G. : 1.015 (1.013-1.016)
ABV: 5.6%
Color: 16 SRM (Deep Amber)
IBU 30 (F:Tinseth)
BU:GU : 0.53
Calories:~200 (30cl)

Thanks a lot for any and all help! I do not know any other brewers in real life, and have not one to ask!

Avichay.

 

[kingwood-kid]

I think you have too much crystal malt, although you did say you wanted it sweet. I would cut the C-20 in half, and switch the C-40 for about 1/4 Lb of a darker crystal, anywhere from 60 to 120. If you go all the way to 120, you can drop the chocolate malt too. The IBU's seem a little low for the style, but if you want it on the sweeter end of the spectrum you might be okay where you're at. You could add some more EKG as a dry-hop, which would give you more hoppy aroma without bitterness. If that's the best yeast you can get, it'll ferment fine, but won't bring anything special to the beer. Maybe you can look into buying a bottle-conditioned British Ale and culturing from that, but if not, you should still be able to make a fine ale.

As far as the water ratio goes, about 1.25 quarts per pound is standard, but I've seen people go as low as 1:1 and as high as 3:1. So roughly 4 Gallons for your recipe. It's best to hold back a half-gallon or so, let your temp stabilize, and proceed from there. Having some ice cubes and some boiling water on hand in case you're several degrees off one way or the other is a swell idea.

 

[propush]

I think you have too much crystal malt, although you did say you wanted it sweet. I would cut the C-20 in half, and switch the C-40 for about 1/4 Lb of a darker crystal, anywhere from 60 to 120. If you go all the way to 120, you can drop the chocolate malt too. The IBU's seem a little low for the style, but if you want it on the sweeter end of the spectrum you might be okay where you're at. You could add some more EKG as a dry-hop, which would give you more hoppy aroma without bitterness. If that's the best yeast you can get, it'll ferment fine, but won't bring anything special to the beer. Maybe you can look into buying a bottle-conditioned British Ale and culturing from that, but if not, you should still be able to make a fine ale.

As far as the water ratio goes, about 1.25 quarts per pound is standard, but I've seen people go as low as 1:1 and as high as 3:1. So roughly 4 Gallons for your recipe. It's best to hold back a half-gallon or so, let your temp stabilize, and proceed from there. Having some ice cubes and some boiling water on hand in case you're several degrees off one way or the other is a swell idea.

Grain bill:
Name Amount
Crystal 20 L 0.25 (1/2 pund)
Crystal 80 L 0.125 (1/4 pound)
Carapils 0.2
Chocolate malt 0.1
Pale Ale Pearl 5

I left in the chocolate malt (even added a few grams), because the low amounts of crystal lower the SRM drastically. And I really enjoy the amber color

Do you think the chocolate malt will be a problem? Basically its there for the color.

I also increased the amount of base malt - so that gravity wont change.

How much E.K.G would you suggest for dry hopping? 15g? (never done dry hopping)

Yeast: I can also get the fallowing (only got dry yeast here :[ ):Safbrew S-33,Safbrew T-58 (which I used instead of Belgian arddenns in my last brew, it was a Belgian strong ale), Safbrew WB-06, Safale US-05.


And thank you :rockin:

 

[ajf]

Extra Special Bitters are my favorite style, so you obviously have great taste.
The Pearl malt is great, and works very well for an ESB.
I would replace the C20, C80 and Carapils with 1/2 pound of C60, and possibly 1/4 pound C120 (if you can get it).
I've tried a small amount of Chocolate malt in Bitters to deepen the color, and I didn't like it. The color was fine, but the flavor wasn't. I have heard that you can get the color with very little flavor impact by adding the Chocolate malt at the end of the mash, and stirring it in before volaufing and sparging; but I have never tried this. It is on my to-do list.
Mash thickness. Ray Daniels (Designiong Great Beers), Greg Noonan (New Brewing Lager Beers), Gordon Strong (Brewing Better Beer) all say that 1 US qt per lb (2.1l per Kg) is traditional.
Mash temperature. Daniels and Noonan both recommend a single infusion mash at about 150F (65C)
I was taught to mash according to these parameters before any of the books had been written.
Your hopping schedule is very similar to mine. I make a bittering addition at 60 minutes, flavor at 15 minutes, and aroma at flameout instead of 5 minutes. I cannot see the 5 minute difference as being a problem. The late hop additions each consist of 20 - 30g depending on the recipe.

Good luck.

-a.

 

[strambo]

Do you think the chocolate malt will be a problem?

No, chocolate malt has a pretty smooth flavor, not too roasted. I use nearly a pound of it in my Porter....and had to add some roasted barley the 2nd time to add some roasted flavor. I think the chocolate will add a nice character to your beer.

 

[propush]

Extra Special Bitters are my favorite style, so you obviously have great taste.
The Pearl malt is great, and works very well for an ESB.
I would replace the C20, C80 and Carapils with 1/2 pound of C60, and possibly 1/4 pound C120 (if you can get it).
I've tried a small amount of Chocolate malt in Bitters to deepen the color, and I didn't like it. The color was fine, but the flavor wasn't. I have heard that you can get the color with very little flavor impact by adding the Chocolate malt at the end of the mash, and stirring it in before volaufing and sparging; but I have never tried this. It is on my to-do list.
Mash thickness. Ray Daniels (Designiong Great Beers), Greg Noonan (New Brewing Lager Beers), Gordon Strong (Brewing Better Beer) all say that 1 US qt per lb (2.1l per Kg) is traditional.
Mash temperature. Daniels and Noonan both recommend a single infusion mash at about 150F (65C)
I was taught to mash according to these parameters before any of the books had been written.
Your hopping schedule is very similar to mine. I make a bittering addition at 60 minutes, flavor at 15 minutes, and aroma at flameout instead of 5 minutes. I cannot see the 5 minute difference as being a problem. The late hop additions each consist of 20 - 30g depending on the recipe.

Good luck.

-a.

Thank you for your help :]

 

[kingwood-kid]

Ajf's malt adjustments would give you an srm around 19, which is all the way at the deep end of amber. Almost any malt you can't buy you can approximate in your oven: http://barleypopmaker.info/2009/12/08/home-roasting-your-malts/
Alas, there are no such remedies for yeast or hop unavailabilities.

 

[propush]

Ajf's malt adjustments would give you an srm around 19, which is all the way at the deep end of amber. Almost any malt you can't buy you can approximate in your oven: http://barleypopmaker.info/2009/12/08/home-roasting-your-malts/
Alas, there are no such remedies for yeast or hop unavailabilities.

Thanks for advice. Hopville calculator says 13 SRM with chocolate, and 11 without. I can not roast at home - I do not have a mill (I cant roast grist, can I? )

Could you guys explain WHY I should change the grains to this or that? It could be really educational for me!

 

[kingwood-kid]

AJF's recipe with the 60 and 120 has an srm of 17-19 (not sure how dark the base malt is), yours with the 20/80 has an srm of 11. For small amounts of grain, you can put them in a ziploc bag and crush with a rolling pin, aka, empty beer bottle. A blender or spotlessly clean coffee grinder could work too. As long as your base malt is crushed properly, you can crush your specialties with less precision and consistency. The lower lovibond crystals are sweeter; the darker ones give more complex flavors like burnt sugar, dried fruit... https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Category:Crystal_and_caramel_malt

You can also make very good, if somewhat non-traditional, english-style beers with no caramel malt at all, if you want more toasted/nutty/bready flavors without the caramel sweetness.

 

[propush]

Thanks a lot for the info :]

 

[ajf]

Thanks for advice. Hopville calculator says 13 SRM with chocolate, and 11 without. I can not roast at home - I do not have a mill (I cant roast grist, can I? )

Could you guys explain WHY I should change the grains to this or that? It could be really educational for me!

See http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter20-4.html

AJF's recipe with the 60 and 120 has an srm of 17-19 (not sure how dark the base malt is), yours with the 20/80 has an srm of 11. For small amounts of grain, you can put them in a ziploc bag and crush with a rolling pin, aka, empty beer bottle. A blender or spotlessly clean coffee grinder could work too. As long as your base malt is crushed properly, you can crush your specialties with less precision and consistency. The lower lovibond crystals are sweeter; the darker ones give more complex flavors like burnt sugar, dried fruit... https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Category:Crystal_and_caramel_malt

You can also make very good, if somewhat non-traditional, english-style beers with no caramel malt at all, if you want more toasted/nutty/bready flavors without the caramel sweetness.

I should have suggested reducing the amount of chocolate malt to achieve the color required.

-a.

 

[terrapinj]

since english yeast is so important to a good english style beer perhaps you can either salvage some yeast from some bottles from the local breweries or any imported english ales or maybe they will even give/sell you some if they use an english strain