nervous about a yeast starter I made friday... (Lalbrew Abbaye dry yeast)

[Hoochin'Fool]

Made 1 gallon of 1.046 wort (brought to a brief 5 minute boil) from 33% 2-row, 67% flaked oats, and pitched about a quarter pack of LalBrew Abbaye dry yeast.
Anyways, thought I'd check to see if it looks like it'll be usable for brewing a Westvletern clone tomorrow -- still got a nice big krausen/foam, but wow, this is the stinkiest thing I've ever brewed.

I've used this same starter recipe a couple times before, but with S-04 or US-05, and it always smelled pretty nice, but this one stinks! Should I be worried?

 

[lumpher]

Stinks how? Barnyard/phenolic? Normal for Abbaye. Produces a lot of esters.
Rotten/acidic? Most likely a dumper.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Stinks how? Barnyard/phenolic? Normal for Abbaye. Produces a lot of esters.
Rotten/acidic? Most likely a dumper.

Kind of rotten-eggs/sulfur... Rather like the first apple cider I ever made with bread yeast (and too much sugar).

 

[day_trippr]

Curious, as that strain is not known for throwing sulfurous notes

Cheers!

 

[lumpher]

Some sulfur smells are normal, but a high level of H2S like you seem to be saying indicate either a lack of nutrients or not enough oxygen. My best guess is it's ok, but you probably should add a little yeast nutrient or energizer to get that cleared up some.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

It's got plenty of oxygen, 1 gallon of wort in a 5 gallon bucket! As for nutrients, I'm convinced that 33% barley + 67% oats should have plenty of nutrients for the yeasties.

But that said, I've never looked at or sniffed any of my us-05 or s-04 starters before at least 5 days, and this has been just over 2 days, so I'm going to just forget about a brew-day tomorrow, and try to squeeze one in on Friday, assuming it doesn't still stink...

thanks everyone!


update: I just sniffed the bucket again -- krausen has grown a bit bigger (68F here in the basement), the sulfur is mostly gone, there's a whiff of pepper/"barnyardiness". Going to proceed with waiting 'til the end of the week to brew, regardless.

 

[IslandLizard]

Are you agitating that starter, to incorporate oxygen into the starter beer?
Integrating air (oxygen) into the yeast starter is essential to make that culture grow. That's one of the main reasons we use a stir plate, shaker, or shake the starter vessel as often and vigorously as possible (s-n-s method).

It's got plenty of oxygen, 1 gallon of wort in a 5 gallon bucket!

It can be difficult to keep a bucket sanitary, due to the snap-on lid closure.
I hope you're not removing that lid every time you take a peek...

The weird odors may be due to the large amount of oat used in the starter wort.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Are you agitating that starter, to incorporate oxygen into the starter beer?
Integrating air (oxygen) into the yeast starter is essential to make that culture grow. That's one of the main reasons we use a stir plate, shaker, or shake the starter vessel as often and vigorously as possible (s-n-s method).

I take the 2 gallon pot, filled with it's 1 gallon of (chilled) wort, and pour it roughly into the 5 gallon home depot bucket, trub and grits and all. I add a sprinkle of the Abbaye yeast packet, put the lid on (no gasket, no airlock, just a jug of water to keep lid "shut" via pressure). No further shaking or stirring.

It can be difficult to keep a bucket sanitary, due to the snap-on lid closure.
I hope you're not removing that lid every time you take a peek...

Actually, I sniff/look at the mini-fermenter (the test-tube that I fill with about 5 ounces of wort {1 hour after yeast added} and leave a hydrometer inside). Too lazy to find and post a picture, but imagine a picture of a test tube, with a hydrometer obscured by krausen, and covered with saran wrap.

The weird odors may be due to the large amount of oat used in the starter wort.

Hadn't considered that! Virtually all of my beers have lots of chocolate/coffee/caramel malts, and they always smell fantastic! I'll make a point to sniff (at 2 days) the next S-04 starter I make (is it the oats, or is it the oats plus LalBrew Abbaye?)...

 

[IslandLizard]

No further shaking or stirring.

You're basically fermenting that small batch, which gives you some yeast growth. But you're not making a starter, where you'd be maximizing yeast growth by keeping the yeast mostly in her aerobic state. The continuous supply of oxygen (and agitation) are key to that as is the removal of CO2 during that process.

Hence the procedure for making starters is not the same as fermentation, where producing alcohol is key, which is an anaerobic process.

 

[lumpher]

Sounds like lack of oxygen is the culprit, with all the comments. Agitation to keep oxygen mixed in is a good thing for a starter. The esters thrown off by the Abbaye could be making the smell more intense than US05 or S04 would be, as well as, like you.pointed out, the more intense smells of chocolate, etc, hiding it. In short, swirl that starter bucket some to help it when it's working.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

If you aren't used to fermenting with Belgian yeasts you are going to be surprised by the different smells I think. The oats will likely play a part too.

I like the mini fermenter with hydrometer idea! Never come across that before. Cheers.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

I like the mini fermenter with hydrometer idea! Never come across that before. Cheers.

The cheapskate's Tilt hydrometer!

Main drawback is that krausen will stick to the side of the tube and obscure the hydrometer.
What I do is wait until the krausen has sunk, then pull the hydrometer and wipe it and the test tube clean with a paper towel that's been spritzed with star-san, replace the hydrometer in the tube, and cover with fresh cling-wrap, then watch the beer drop it's final few gravity points over the next week.

And now that I've actually typed that out, I'm wondering why I don't just leave the hydrometer out UNTIL the krausen has sunk, and save a spritz or two of star-san? Did I mention that I was a cheapskate?

 

[CarenSolis]

It's normal for some yeast strains, like LalBrew Abbaye, to have strong, funky smells during fermentation. The odor should dissipate as fermentation progresses. If you still have a krausen and active fermentation, it’s likely fine. Just keep an eye on it and make sure it’s fermenting properly!

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

This stupid starter STILL STUNK Monday morning (like 10 days after I made the starter, obviously it had fermented completely dry). So I dumped it all, and oxi-cleaned the hell out of it.

Still, I had the day off, and a pack-and-a-half left of Lalbrew Dry Abbaye yeast, so I went ahead and brewed a 3 gallon batch:
6.0 lbs Baird's Finest Maris Otter (69%)
1.5 lbs Swaen Pilsner (17%)
1.0 lbs Candi Syrup TM D-180 (12%)
0.5 lbs brown sugar (6%)
EKG @ 60 for 35 ibu
OG: 1.092 (I was aiming for 1.090)
Mashed 60 minutes at 149F

Mash water: aim for Brewer's Friend "Balanced Profile II"
OG: 1.092 (was aiming for 1.090)

Going to keep the fermenter between 65F and 68F the first 3 days, then let it sit in a 70F room for another 3 weeks, then bottle.

About 12 hours after pitching the yeast, it's got a bit of krausen, and more importantly, smells pretty good (so far, at least)!

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

About 12 hours after pitching the yeast, it's got a bit of krausen, and more importantly, smells pretty good (so far, at least)!

It's been about 36 hours now, the bucket has a sizeable layer of krausen, and it still smells perfectly fine. Starting to think that maybe Lalbrew Abbaye dry yeast just really, really hates oats.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Gravity is down to 1.026-ish, still smells nice, a touch fruity, but not overly so. What's weird is just how much trub I can see thru the bucket, comes up to the half-gallon mark! Took it out of the swamp cooler to warm up a bit and hopefully finish soon.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

@duncan_disorderly - the cheap-skate's Tilt hydrometer! Just wiped down the gunk from the sides...