Neipa

[Biscuits]

What rate are you hopping at?

Because fermentation hopping alone doesn't do it.

Fermentation hopping isn't going to give you a milky appearance, but it definitely does give you a persistent haze. I've experimented with biotrans hops in beers that normally drop crystal clear for me and they became very hazy, although not milky.

But to answer your question, my typical NEIPA is hopped at a rate about 2 Oz/Gal....I usually use a total of 12 Oz in a 5 gallon batch. 6 Oz total in the kettle and another 6 Oz (split between two charges) in dry hop.

I am only using about 10% flaked oats in conjunction to about the same amount of Golden Naked Oats.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Fermentation hopping isn't going to give you a milky appearance, but it definitely does give you a persistent haze. I've experimented with biotrans hops in beers that normally drop crystal clear for me and they became very hazy, although not milky.

But to answer your question, my typical NEIPA is hopped at a rate about 2 Oz/Gal....I usually use a total of 12 Oz in a 5 gallon batch. 6 Oz total in the kettle and another 6 Oz (split between two charges) in dry hop.

I am only using about 10% flaked oats in conjunction to about the same amount of Golden Naked Oats.

No more persistent than chill haze in my experience.

I think it all comes down to hopping rate. What I've found personally is that your 12 oz/5 gallon rate is a bare minimum. Anything less and the haze isn't persistent. The most persistent I've obtained was at double even that (which was downright pulpy looking).

HOWEVER I've found that an increase in hopping rate gives you the haze, but not necessarily an increase in hop character (or diminishing returns at least).

So it's a choice. I'm not gonna throw a butt ton of hops just for appearance.

 

[Biscuits]

I agree. I don't really want to be adding a pound of hops per 5 gallon batch. However, I can say that even some of the beers that I experimented with became hazy, and persisted to be hazy, with much less than 12 Oz of hops. Granted they weren't NEIPA hazy (milky) but they weren't originally designed to be and it was just a way for me to confirm that biotrans hops indeed contribute to haze.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I agree. I don't really want to be adding a pound of hops per 5 gallon batch. However, I can say that even some of the beers that I experimented with became hazy, and persisted to be hazy, with much less than 12 Oz of hops. Granted they weren't NEIPA hazy (milky) but they weren't originally designed to be and it was just a way for me to confirm that biotrans hops indeed contribute to haze.

What are your fermentation parameters? I haven't noticed an appreciable appearance difference from fermentation hopping (hop character in terms of flavor and aroma certainly different though) from any other form of dry hopping.

 

[MapleGroveAleworks]

The "juiciness" described in NEIPAs usually comes from, IMO, the hops and the lower bitterness. They're usually lower in IBUs than "standard" IPAs. And they usually have higher amounts of sulfate and chloride to give them a fuller, rounder, softer mouthfeel. The haze doesn't contribute to the juiciness, AFAIK.

Sulfate is restrained in NEIPA. Chloride is the mineral that gets wildly increased.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

No more persistent than chill haze in my experience.

I think it all comes down to hopping rate. What I've found personally is that your 12 oz/5 gallon rate is a bare minimum. Anything less and the haze isn't persistent. The most persistent I've obtained was at double even that (which was downright pulpy looking).

HOWEVER I've found that an increase in hopping rate gives you the haze, but not necessarily an increase in hop character (or diminishing returns at least).

So it's a choice. I'm not gonna throw a butt ton of hops just for appearance.

I disagree about hopping rate. My first NEIPA had 8 oz hops, some flaked oats, some flaked wheat. It was still quite opaque after almost 4 weeks in the keg (see attached pic)

Would it have been that way after 3 months? Who knows....I don't let them last that long. NEIPAs are meant to be consumed fresh.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Eh. Haze is a hallmark and should be there. It's 3 points though. As far as comps go, far from the end of the world.

Problem is that while appearance is minor for comps, it's not for the average drinker. In most cases it makes clear beer important. In this case, it makes haze important. "People eat with their eyes". I understand why some brewers artificially haze it.

I use about 20% malted wheat (not flaked) amd 6% flaked oats in mine.

I don't understand artificially generating haze. I can understand wanting it, since so many people now see a hazy beer and think "yum". I see people post hazy homebrews on FB and people comment "looks tasty" or "looks juicy".

That being said, I don't think the haze is hard to come by. I started out really worried about the haze and read a ton about it. Literally my first attempt was beautifully hazy and very tasty. My second batch won best in show at a local comp. It's not hard. The only thing I can't seem to get is a nice pillowy head to go with it.

My best NEIPAs all have:

7% flaked oats
3.5% flaked wheat
zero early boil additions
about 9 oz hops distributed between 5 min, FO and WP
another 4 oz in one dry hop just as ferm slows (about 20 hours after pitch for me)
1318 yeast
In the keg within 8 days of brewday

Follow that and the haze holds over a month, it really juicy with the right hops, and will impress any fan of the style. I have several friends who regularly road trip out east and bring back trillium, foam, tree house, etc. I told them I was trying to brew as well as them and they laughed. Then they tried my latest beer and said I'm right there with 'em.

 

[pursuit0fhoppiness]

Looks delicious hawk-i-st8!!

 

[Rob2010SS]

Do you guys cold crash and gelatin your NEIPA's? I did gelatin on my first one and I don't think I'll do it again because my first one cleared in about 3 days after being in the keg.

 

[bradleypariah]

Do you guys cold crash and gelatin your NEIPA's? I did gelatin on my first one and I don't think I'll do it again because my first one cleared in about 3 days after being in the keg.

I put my most recent one in the fridge for a couple days before kegging, but I don't really think I needed to. I wanted to burst-carbonate, and I heard it works better if the beer is cold first. I've always considered the clarity of a beer to be more of a presentation thing. It's novel, and that's about it.

The beer is only about four days old right now, and it certainly isn't clear yet. Not sure how long the haze will last, but I've never had one clear up in less than two weeks, if they clear up at all.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Yeah I'm not sure what happened with mine but it cleared in literally 3 days. I had to swirl the keg a bit to get the haze suspended again. I'm doing another one this weekend where I'm drastically increasing the CaCl additions so I'll see if that helps. Pretty sure i didn't do the correct additions on my first one

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

looks delicious hawk-i-st8!!

lol

 

[Rob2010SS]

NEIPA number 2 competed today. Increased CaCl to get over 200ppm to try and fix my haze problem. See how it goes.

 

[TravelingLight]

I've been more pleased with mine since I bumped the oats up to 20% of the grist. Otherwise, my grist is fairly simple - 2-Row, Flaked Oats, White Wheat, maybe some carapils. Here's my latest (and best) NEIPA.

 

[motosapiens]

Sulfate is restrained in NEIPA. Chloride is the mineral that gets wildly increased.

at least that's the official popular way to do it. I made two identical batches last year, one with 150/50, and the other 50/150 (sulfate/chloride). Both were delicious. After a couple weeks the higher sulfate version seemed to retain more hop 'brightness'. I'd have to double check my notes, but I think i'm doing 100/160 -ish now, and liking that alot.

Of course I don't really GAF if my beer fits into some particular hipster style. I just want it to taste good to me, and I don't wear skinny jeans.

 

[motosapiens]

Do you guys cold crash and gelatin your NEIPA's? I did gelatin on my first one and I don't think I'll do it again because my first one cleared in about 3 days after being in the keg.

i don't use gelatin in anything, but the yeasts i mostly use (london esb and irish hale) drop pretty darned clear and bright anytime i'm not doing a neipa. I do a cold fender-bender (not really a crash) down to mid 40's or whatever temp my garage is just to get the hop material to settle harder so I can rack into keg or bottles.

 

[TravelingLight]

Do you guys cold crash and gelatin your NEIPA's? I did gelatin on my first one and I don't think I'll do it again because my first one cleared in about 3 days after being in the keg.

I cold crash mine, because I cold crash everything, and I especially don't want one chewy with hop debris like a NEIPA. I do not fin with gelatin though. I use gelatin sometimes on some beers, depending on my end goal. But I would never gelatin fin a NEIPA.

 

[Biscuits]

What are your fermentation parameters? I haven't noticed an appreciable appearance difference from fermentation hopping (hop character in terms of flavor and aroma certainly different though) from any other form of dry hopping.

I usually split my dry hops into two charges. First charge goes in 36-48 hours into fermentation, as it begins to slow. My second charge goes in 3 days before I begin cold crash.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I usually split my dry hops into two charges. First charge goes in 36-48 hours into fermentation, as it begins to slow. My second charge goes in 3 days before I begin cold crash.

Was looking for strain, temp schedule, pitching rate, O2, etc. I follow a similar hopping schedule, just 48-72 hours for first dry hop, earlier and fermentation is still too active for my liking and I end up blowing a lot of the dry hop matter off.

Not sure what's going on. Same protocol as others have posted, same or increased hopping rates, NEIPAs are bright in ~3 weeks (but those didn't last long past that marker so may well have been bright in 4)

Normally I'm good with bright beer quickly. I never need fermenter finings. Only beers that DON'T drop clear fast are lagers because I'm partial to a slow moving extra powdery strain (I should just switch to 3470 like everyone else...) but 6 weeks at 33F and usually good to go.

In this case though...

 

[Biscuits]

Was looking for strain, temp schedule, pitching rate, O2, etc. I follow a similar hopping schedule, just 48-72 hours for first dry hop, earlier and fermentation is still too active for my liking and I end up blowing a lot of the dry hop matter off.

Not sure what's going on. Same protocol as others have posted, same or increased hopping rates, NEIPAs are bright in ~3 weeks (but those didn't last long past that marker so may well have been bright in 4)

Normally I'm good with bright beer quickly. I never need fermenter finings. Only beers that DON'T drop clear fast are lagers because I'm partial to a slow moving extra powdery strain (I should just switch to 3470 like everyone else...) but 6 weeks at 33F and usually good to go.

In this case though...

I have never used finings either and I have always had crystal clear beer. It was frustrating for me trying to figure out how to make a hazy beer...I thought there was some magic involved, but for me the biotrans hops seemed to be the key.

I have used WLP002, ESB yeast (high foc) before which remained hazy throughout it's short life span of 3 weeks...but typically I use WLP008 East Coast Ale yeast. My LHBS only carries White Labs stuff and I am too lazy to drive the extra 15 mins to the other shop to get London II.

Anyway, I set my chest freezer to 64 degrees (ambient; not taped to the fermentor) and I will ramp up to 68 usually 2 or 3 days before the second charge at which time I usually lower the temp again to 65'ish until I cold crash.

My pitching rate is even less scientific than my fermentation temp schedule. I usually use a stir plate to create a vitality starter on brew day. I will get the yeast started before I hit the flame to heat strike water...it is usually about 6 hours before I am pitching yeast.

I don't use an oxygen wand or really do much other than dump the wort into my fermentor to introduce O2, which might explain why your fermentations are so much more vigorous than mine. Mine aren't delayed by any means but I have rarely had much use for a blow off...I am also not sure if there are any differences from atmospheric pressure since I am sitting at 6500 feet.

 

[newtobrew1981]

I not sure of the type of equipment you guys are using but isn't cl corrosive to stainless steel at the range of 300ppm. I apologize if I'm wrong