NEIPA recipe feedback

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RyPA

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I am planning to brew another NEIPA this or next weekend. This is the first time building a recipe from scratch and am looking for some feedback before I brew this. I'm attempting to make a nice juicy relatively low-ABV/session NEIPA.

I assume I entered the hops correctly. The citra, mosaic, el dorado and columbus are lupomax while the galaxy is standard pellets from Yakima valley.


Thank you
 

anteater8

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I don't think ever given this advice on this site, but I think your dry hop is too big!

11 oz of lupomax in the dry hop is like 22 oz of standard pellets. I think you want to dry hop at 6-8 oz maximum of standard pellets for an ABV this low. Without more alcohol and body to stand up to it, you might get some pretty intense vegetal flavors and bitterness. I would also consider doing the dry hops for 1 and 2 days instead of 3 and 7 for the same reason. Besides the hop amount, the recipe looks good.
 
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RyPA

RyPA

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I thought about that regarding the Lupomax but I found in other people's experience that they instead used the standard amount of hops in Lupomax form with good experience. I may bump the ABV up a bit by adding 2 more lbs of 2-row.

Edit: Added 2 lbs of 2-row and ABV is now at 6.5%. Anyone with Lupomax experience, please weigh in regarding Yakima's suggestion of using 50%-60% of standard hop portions, or going all in.

I found this thread so I may need to revisit this hop schedule
 
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RyPA

RyPA

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I cut the Lupomax additions in the whirlpool and dry hop in half, and eliminated the second dry hop.
 
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RyPA

RyPA

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I made another edit, can someone please take a look? Hoping to brew it this weekend

 

Ryan_PA

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What you have will make an IPA. Likely a fine tasting one. The opinions you will likely receive are gonna be aligned to personal approaches. For example, I brew a load of NEIPAs and basically just use pilsner and flaked oats. I don't think I have ever used any adjuncts other than lactose. And personally, your hop schedule would give me anxiety. I'm simple. A modest FWH addition (like 1 oz simcoe for a 6 gal batch) then an aggressive hop stand dose (~4oz usually with lupomax hops for 10 mins) then a similar hop charge as a dry hop. Thats what works for me. The middle boil additions (for me) tend to get lost in a good NEIPA or move it closer to a west coast stye. Plus, I like simplicity in my recipes/process. This allows me to either control or tune the hop profiles with less variables in future batches.

But like I said, you can just brew what you got in the latest recipe and make a beer you fall in love with.
 
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RyPA

RyPA

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Thanks for the feedback.. I'm transitioning from being a kit brewer to doing my own thing so just trying to make sure I end up with a decent beer. Still trying to figure out the appropriate times to add hops, and how much.

Regarding my grain bill, I've brewed something very close to it before and it had an awesome color/mouth feel. With this batch I replaced an all Maris Otter base with a mix of 2-row and Golden Promise.

I've never done a FWH, maybe I'll instead do that and skip my boil hops.

Also unsure about mixing these 4 hops for the hopstand and dry hop, I guess I can try and see what happens.
 

DonT

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I would skip the FWH as well, I think it would add too much bitterness. Personally, I use Magnum or Warrior to about 10 ibus @ 60 min., and then skip/leave out the boil hops and just stick to the hop stand and dry hops. I read on one of the hop supplier websites that Cryo hops work better when combined with regular pellet hops... FWIW.
 
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RyPA

RyPA

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I would skip the FWH as well, I think it would add too much bitterness. Personally, I use Magnum or Warrior to about 10 ibus @ 60 min., and then skip/leave out the boil hops and just stick to the hop stand and dry hops. I read on one of the hop supplier websites that Cryo hops work better when combined with regular pellet hops... FWIW.
Wouldn't a FWH essentially provide the same as a 60 minute addition, just smoother taste? Planning to use columbus Lupomax for bittering.
 

DonT

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Granted, I've never done FWH, but I would be worried about too much perceived bitterness in a NEIPA. I guess you could use Columbus Lupo, add just enough to about 9-10 IBUs.
 
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RyPA

RyPA

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Yeah, I'm hesitant to experiment and may just stick to a 1/4 oz 60 minute Columbus Lupomax addition and not do the 10 minute.

I am thinking of experimenting with smaller, like 1 gallon batches. Really don't want to waste 5 gallons from trying things out.
 

Dgallo

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I think it will make a solid beer. That said I wouldn’t use LUPOMAX in boil at all, only whirlpool and dryhop. To me it seems to be a waste of the purpose of the t45 pellets being concentrated, it won’t cause any negative persay, but with their cost compared to t90 pellets, I’d save them for where you’ll get the most out of them.

Also, I like LUPOMAX when used in combination t90 pellets. LUPOMAX is great but doesn’t have the depth of flavor that t90 do. I’ve enjoyed 60:40 and 50:50 t90 to t45.

As always, take this with a grain of salt as everyone’s palate and preference is different
 

Dgallo

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Yeah, I'm hesitant to experiment and may just stick to a 1/4 oz 60 minute Columbus Lupomax addition and not do the 10 minute.

I am thinking of experimenting with smaller, like 1 gallon batches. Really don't want to waste 5 gallons from trying things out.
Your recipe as of now is fine and won’t be a waste. But as I’m sure you’re aware, process, especially minimizing o2 post fermentation is far more important than anything else
 
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RyPA

RyPA

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@Dgallo, I bought Lupomax Columbus which I kind of regret, so I don't mind using it up for bittering.

Do you think I am good as is on this one, minus the 10 minute addition?

 

Dgallo

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@Dgallo, I bought Lupomax Columbus which I kind of regret, so I don't mind using it up for bittering.

Do you think I am good as is on this one, minus the 10 minute addition?

It’s honestly hard for me the follow the hopping schedule in the brewers friend link. There’s additions that say boil but show no ibus.

Oh and if you don’t like Columbus, send it all my way, I love that hop lol
 
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RyPA

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Ok, I think it's because of the 0 minute value, let me try to use something that shows more info.

And it's not that I don't like it, I read that it's a good bittering hop, just not sure how to use it yet as I've been sticking with NEIPAs which don't get much bittering. Im looking to do a west coast IPA next after this NEIPA, maybe it will be better suited there.
 
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RyPA

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@Dgallo, brewgr.com works the same way, flame out and dry hop do not display a calculation for IBU. What do you use for your calculation?
 

Dgallo

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@Dgallo, brewgr.com works the same way, flame out and dry hop do not display a calculation for IBU. What do you use for your calculation?
Strange as it’s showing your whirlpool ibus additions which would be cooler temps. On brewers friend, plug those FO additions in as 200*f whirlpool additions for 5-10 mins. ThAt will give you a better ballpark estimate of your ibus.
 
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RyPA

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Same issue if I pick whirlpool. If I set it to boil at 200F for X minutes, it gives IBU's
 

Dgallo

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Same issue if I pick whirlpool. If I set it to boil at 200F for X minutes, it gives IBU's
When I get a second I’ll run it through beersmith 3 for you, it calculates estimated ibus. With LUPOMAX, these additions could be significant additions of IBUS
 
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RyPA

RyPA

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@Dgallo Appreciate it man, feel free to make adjustments that you see fit. I have 4 lbs of hops to work with. Hoping to brew this on Saturday
 

Dgallo

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@Dgallo Appreciate it man, feel free to make adjustments that you see fit. I have 4 lbs of hops to work with. Hoping to brew this on Saturday
Not a problem. Did you update the alphas for what the packs states or did you run them in your program with the preset?
 
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RyPA

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@Dgallo And the El Dorado are also Lupomax but the site doesn't have it loaded. Here's what I'm working with

8oz Lupomax Citra
8oz Lupomax Columbus
8oz Lupomax El Dorado
8oz Lupomax Mosaic
2 lbs AU Galaxy non lupomax
 

Dgallo

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Yes, updated using what is on the package
Here’s what I’m getting, the ibus are calculating slightly less but I also used 200*f as the whirlpool temps for the flame out addition. retiring on caution your ibus will probably be between 45-55, which is fine it your water Chem and ph throughout is good. It’s on the higher side for the current expectations for a Single NEipA, but that again is a preference thing. I also don’t see verdant getting anywhere near 1.012 as a fg, probably close to 1.016-1.018.

I say run with it or just shift all flameout additions into your 175*f whirlpool/hopstand
E1CF4C7F-F0EE-4667-9DE0-0B017D7BED15.jpeg
 
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RyPA

RyPA

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Just to help me learn...What does moving the flameout to whirlpool do, reduce ibus slightly?
 

Dgallo

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Just to help me learn...What does moving the flameout to whirlpool do, reduce ibus slightly?
Drops the ibus without you having to eliminate any hops from the recipe.
some flavor/aroma compounds are volatile at boiling/near boiling temps and denature them, which causes you to lose some punch. It can also alter some compounds and change the profile of the hops. By pushing it back to lower whirlpool temps, you can hold on to more of the hops.

Take a hop like cascade. The longer you boil cascade you get more floral/slight resin versus the brighter citrus character it can have
 
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RyPA

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Gotcha, I definitely need to do more research, possibly get some books.

Do you think my water profile works? I'm using distilled and building from there
 

Bobo1898

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For what it's worth, I use Lupo, Cryo, etc. 1:1 for standard hops and don't reduce the usage. But I also like my IPAs angry.

Also, I don't know if I would boil any Lupo, Cryo, etc. hops because it feels like you're losing a lot of it's intended purpose, unless it's under 10 or 15 minutes. So anything to add bitterness feels like a waste of money compared to adding your standard hops for bitterness. But that's just me. I'm sure plenty of people have used Lupo, Cryo, etc. for bittering hops.
 
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RyPA

RyPA

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I'm the same way, I like my IPAs with a kick..just don't want to overdo it to the point where it's not enjoyable. So for the most part, based on dgallos feedback, I'm going to roll with it, except I'm going to move the flameout to hop stand.

For the lupo Columbus, I have 8oz of it, I don't mind burning up 1/4-1/2 oz for bittering at 60/10.
 
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RyPA

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Am I pushing the envelope if I add more hops to the dry hop or whirlpool?

 

Dgallo

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Am I pushing the envelope if I add more hops to the dry hop or whirlpool?

More hops doesn’t always equate to better. Can you properly and effectively minimize o2 pick up? If so, the. Yes you can push it a little further. As stated earlier, 1oz of LUPOMAX is equivalent to the same lupulin concentration of 1.8-2.0 oz of its T90 counterpart, so your hoping at an equivalent 3.75-4 oz per gallon, so you are near the 8lbs/bbl which is near the absurd numbers as this is only going to be 6.5-7.0% beer. 5lb/bbl is where the majority of the absolute best hoppy breweries settle for a single ipa. A
 
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RyPA

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Yes, there will be minimal o2. I built a fermonster with QD bulkheads & floating dip tube and am going to do your approach to sanitize the keg/push out sanitizer with fermentation CO2 and then do a closed transfer.

Though, some say they use equal amounts of Lupomax to t-90. If you think it'll be hoppy as is then I can go as is and add more if needed next time
 

Dgallo

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Yes, there will be minimal o2. I built a fermonster with QD bulkheads & floating dip tube and am going to do your approach to sanitize the keg/push out sanitizer with fermentation CO2 and then do a closed transfer.

Though, some say they use equal amounts of Lupomax to t-90. If you think it'll be hoppy as is then I can go as is and add more if needed next time
I think you are good to go with your recipe as is
 

Taket_al_Tauro

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As stated earlier, 1oz of LUPOMAX is equivalent to the same lupulin concentration of 1.8-2.0 oz of its T90 counterpart,

Is there currently more or less a consensus over here on LUPOMAX dosage over T90 pellets?
So far, the recommandation I heard most often was to dose LUPOMAX at ca. 70% of what you would do when using T90 pellets.
In that case, 1 oz LUPOMAX would be more like 1.4 oz of T90 rather than the 1.8 - 2.0 oz you cited.
However if your experience says you can reduce by half (or nearly) relative to T90, I'll be more than happy to follow your advice, because LUPOMAX is damn expensive, at least over here...
Previously I was using Cryo combined with T90...cryo at the generally recommended rate of 50%, which was good. However in the meantime the prices for Cryo have increased beyond reasonable levels at my local online store. That is why I would like to change to LUPOMAX, which is not nearly as expensive right now.
 

Dgallo

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Is there currently more or less a consensus over here on LUPOMAX dosage over T90 pellets?
So far, the recommandation I heard most often was to dose LUPOMAX at ca. 70% of what you would do when using T90 pellets.
In that case, 1 oz LUPOMAX would be more like 1.4 oz of T90 rather than the 1.8 - 2.0 oz you cited.
However if your experience says you can reduce by half (or nearly) relative to T90, I'll be more than happy to follow your advice, because LUPOMAX is damn expensive, at least over here...
Previously I was using Cryo combined with T90...cryo at the generally recommended rate of 50%, which was good. However in the meantime the prices for Cryo have increased beyond reasonable levels at my local online store. That is why I would like to change to LUPOMAX, which is not nearly as expensive right now.
I’ve always based it off this that says 50-70% (I actually thought it was 50-60% when I responded to @RyPA) which would be 1 oz of LUPOMAX to roughly 1.5-2.0 oz of t90 (for simplicity purpose)
AC1BDF08-AB50-4A72-9E38-8023C2590174.png


I’ve always used it at the rate that I posted originally and I like the results but my dosing looks incorrect based on the info coming from HAAS which is specifically 70% to t90
 
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Taket_al_Tauro

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I’ve always based it off this that says 50-70% (I actually thought it was 50-60% when I responded to @RyPA) which would be 1 oz of LUPOMAX to roughly 1.5-2.0 oz of t90 (for simplicity purpose)

Thanks! I think I'll then go with 60% which is the middle of the range from the link you posted. What I remarked is that LUPOMAX seems to be generally lower in alpha acids than cryo...so that would support the notion that it is a bit less concentrated of a product than cryo. On the other hand, I don't know if alpha acids concentration directly translates to hop oils concentration, the last ones being obviously the things that interest us more in such a product...
 
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RyPA

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4 days from pitching and I think it's done fermenting. I'm debating dry hopping now, so I can keg in 3 days, or dry hop in a few more days.

OG = 1.070
FG = 1.012
ABV = 7.35
79% attenuation

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