NEIPA Recipe Advice

[Chris112]

I'm working on recipe building and this would be my second NEIPA attempt. The first NEIPA I made was decent but lacked body and was a bit too light due to some efficiency issues and mistakes on my part (dumped the entire starter in instead of decanting). Looking for any advice / thoughts on this recipe as written below before I brew tomorrow. It seems balanced based on the Brewfather numbers but NEIPA is new to me. Also wondering if I should do a second dry hop addition a day or two before kegging? This batch will be fermented in a unitank so I can dry hop, carb and transfer with minimal O2 exposure.

Thanks!

1) SS Brewtech 3v RIMS (Batch Sparge)​

70% efficiency
Batch Volume: 6 gal (Kettle)
Fermenter Volume: 5.36 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
Mash Water: 5.11 gal
Sparge Water: 3.79 gal (0.19 gal + 3.6 gal) @ 172 °F
Total Water: 8.9 gal
Boil Volume: 7.5 gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.056

Vitals​

Original Gravity: 1.070
Final Gravity: 1.021
IBU (Tinseth): 35
BU/GU: 0.50
Color: 5.2 SRM

Mash​

Strike Temp — 172.4 °F
Temperature — 152 °F — 60 min

Malts (13 lb 10 oz)​

12 lb 8 oz (77.5%) — Briess Brewers Malt 2-Row — Grain — 1.8 SRM
8 oz (3.1%) — Weyermann Carahell — Grain — 13 SRM
8 oz (3.1%) — Weyermann Carapils/Carafoam — Grain — 2 SRM
2 oz (0.8%) — Caramel/Crystal Malt — Grain — 20 SRM

Other (2 lb 8 oz)​

1 lb (6.2%) — JD Carlson Oats, Flaked — Adjunct — 2.6 SRM
1 lb (6.2%) — JD Carlson White Wheat, Flaked — Adjunct — 0.5 SRM
8 oz (3.1%) — Briess Rice Hulls — Adjunct — 0 SRM

Hops (13.5 oz)​

0.5 oz (5 IBU) — Citra 13.3% — Boil — 5 min
0.5 oz (6 IBU) — El Dorado 13.8% — Boil — 5 min
0.5 oz (5 IBU) — Mosaic 11.6% — Boil — 5 min
2 oz (7 IBU) — Citra 13.3% — Aroma — 15 min hopstand
2 oz (7 IBU) — El Dorado 13.8% — Aroma — 15 min hopstand
2 oz (6 IBU) — Mosaic 11.6% — Aroma — 15 min hopstand
2 oz — Citra 13.3% — Dry Hop — day 2
2 oz — El Dorado 13.8% — Dry Hop — day 2
2 oz — Mosaic 11.6% — Dry Hop — day 2

Hopstand at 168 °F

Miscs​

4.59 g — Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) — Mash
1.82 g — Epsom Salt (MgSO4) — Mash
1.87 g — Gypsum (CaSO4) — Mash
33 ml — Phosphoric Acid 10% — Mash
3.5 g — Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) — Sparge
1.39 g — Epsom Salt (MgSO4) — Sparge
1.43 g — Gypsum (CaSO4) — Sparge
4.68 ml — Phosphoric Acid 10% — Sparge
0.62 g — Yeast Nutrients (WLN1000) — Boil — 15 min
1 items — Whirlfloc — Boil — 5 min

Yeast​

1 pkg — Imperial Yeast A38 Juice 76%
1.2 L starter
4.62 oz DME / 5.64 oz LME
371 billion yeast cells
1.05 million cells / ml / °P

Fermentation​

Primary — 69 °F — 10 days
Cold Crash — 38 °F — 2 days
Carbonation — 38 °F — 1 days
Carbonation: 2.4 CO2-vol

Water Profile​

Ca2+97
Mg2+12
Na+12
Cl-136
SO42-91
HCO3-32

 

[spittiz]

My thoughts after a quick glance.

Malt bill: I'd personally ditch the carahell, carafoam and especially the crystal malt. I've made lots of good NEIPA batches with a grainbill of roughly 75% 2-row, 15% wheat malt, and 10% flaked oats. If you want something with a little more complex notes, you can add like 5-8% toasted oats or similar. The wheat malt and flaked oats have given me great haze stability and overall appearance.

Hops: Dry hopping rate seems a bit low, if I did my quick conversion right you got around 8,5 grams of dry hops per liter, I'd target 10g/l bare minimum, preferably closer to 15 g/l if you can afford it. Seems to make a pretty big difference in hop flavor and aroma as long as you keep oxygen out during and after packaging.

Water profile: I'd adjust the cl:so4 ratio more to 2:1

About double dry hopping, it's been debated a lot, but seems to me like there's little to gain from double dry hopping on a homebrew scale, I prefer a single big charge. There was just recently a brulosophy post where they tried if people could notice the difference between single and ddh in an american IPA: exBEERiment | Impact Double Dry Hopping Has On An American IPA

Even if there was some slight advantage aroma/flavor wise with ddh I feel like the additional oxidation and infection risks are not worth it in a homebrew setting. And if you do a big later stage dry hop charge, preferably do it at room or diacetyl rest temperatures, because it may start a secondary fermentation in the beer which you should give time to finish and clean up, otherwise you might end up with diacetyl in your NEIPA. Hop Creep, Diacetyl, and New England IPAs

Again, just my personal thoughts and opinions, but hope it helps!

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Keep your base malt and carapils, drop carahell and crystal malt, add maybe 2% honey malt, switch out the flaked oats for malted oats. Maybe up the percentage of white wheat a bit. As for the dry hop, I usually am 1.5 oz per gallon and I split the dry hop into 2 additions 1 day apart about 3 days before cold crash. Avoiding post fermentation oxygen exposure is a huge player in the style.

Cheers

 

[Chris112]

My thoughts after a quick glance.

Malt bill: I'd personally ditch the carahell, carafoam and especially the crystal malt. I've made lots of good NEIPA batches with a grainbill of roughly 75% 2-row, 15% wheat malt, and 10% flaked oats. If you want something with a little more complex notes, you can add like 5-8% toasted oats or similar. The wheat malt and flaked oats have given me great haze stability and overall appearance.

Hops: Dry hopping rate seems a bit low, if I did my quick conversion right you got around 8,5 grams of dry hops per liter, I'd target 10g/l bare minimum, preferably closer to 15 g/l if you can afford it. Seems to make a pretty big difference in hop flavor and aroma as long as you keep oxygen out during and after packaging.

Water profile: I'd adjust the cl:so4 ratio more to 2:1

About double dry hopping, it's been debated a lot, but seems to me like there's little to gain from double dry hopping on a homebrew scale, I prefer a single big charge. There was just recently a brulosophy post where they tried if people could notice the difference between single and ddh in an american IPA: exBEERiment | Impact Double Dry Hopping Has On An American IPA

Even if there was some slight advantage aroma/flavor wise with ddh I feel like the additional oxidation and infection risks are not worth it in a homebrew setting. And if you do a big later stage dry hop charge, preferably do it at room or diacetyl rest temperatures, because it may start a secondary fermentation in the beer which you should give time to finish and clean up, otherwise you might end up with diacetyl in your NEIPA. Hop Creep, Diacetyl, and New England IPAs

Again, just my personal thoughts and opinions, but hope it helps!

Thanks for the thorough reply! Very helpful info.

 

[Chris112]

Keep your base malt and carapils, drop carahell and crystal malt, add maybe 2% honey malt, switch out the flaked oats for malted oats. Maybe up the percentage of white wheat a bit. As for the dry hop, I usually am 1.5 oz per gallon and I split the dry hop into 2 additions 1 day apart about 3 days before cold crash. Avoiding post fermentation oxygen exposure is a huge player in the style.

Cheers

Appreciate the reply! Thanks.

 

[Chris112]

My thoughts after a quick glance.

Malt bill: I'd personally ditch the carahell, carafoam and especially the crystal malt. I've made lots of good NEIPA batches with a grainbill of roughly 75% 2-row, 15% wheat malt, and 10% flaked oats. If you want something with a little more complex notes, you can add like 5-8% toasted oats or similar. The wheat malt and flaked oats have given me great haze stability and overall appearance.

Hops: Dry hopping rate seems a bit low, if I did my quick conversion right you got around 8,5 grams of dry hops per liter, I'd target 10g/l bare minimum, preferably closer to 15 g/l if you can afford it. Seems to make a pretty big difference in hop flavor and aroma as long as you keep oxygen out during and after packaging.

Water profile: I'd adjust the cl:so4 ratio more to 2:1

About double dry hopping, it's been debated a lot, but seems to me like there's little to gain from double dry hopping on a homebrew scale, I prefer a single big charge. There was just recently a brulosophy post where they tried if people could notice the difference between single and ddh in an american IPA: exBEERiment | Impact Double Dry Hopping Has On An American IPA

Even if there was some slight advantage aroma/flavor wise with ddh I feel like the additional oxidation and infection risks are not worth it in a homebrew setting. And if you do a big later stage dry hop charge, preferably do it at room or diacetyl rest temperatures, because it may start a secondary fermentation in the beer which you should give time to finish and clean up, otherwise you might end up with diacetyl in your NEIPA. Hop Creep, Diacetyl, and New England IPAs

Again, just my personal thoughts and opinions, but hope it helps!

Just wanted to provide some follow-up since I appreciated the suggestions you made. I brewed the recipe below making some suggested changes. Haze was great and my fermentation, dry hopping and transfer processes kept out oxygen, so all wins in those areas.

However, it's missing a creamy mouthfeel and the aroma and hop flavor is underwhelming, which is weird considering the increased hop additions. Also I lost almost half of the batch due to hops absorbing beer - had to dump a bit through the dump valve to keep the transfer line from clogging.

This also had a lot of hop burn for about a week.

Also had a stuck mash and couldn't really recirculate so I resorted to stirring and then sparging for a bit longer once I got the first wort out. I only seem to have this issue with flaked / rolled oats so I am thinking next time I will add those to the top of the mash, rather than mix in or wondering if I should just not recirculate and just stir twice during the mash.

The Juice​

Hazy IPA
6.7% / 19.2 °P
All Grain

1) SS Brewtech 3v RIMS (Batch Sparge)​

70% efficiency
Batch Volume: 6 gal (Kettle)
Fermenter Volume: 5.36 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
Mash Water: 5.63 gal
Sparge Water: 3.45 gal @ 172 °F
Total Water: 9.07 gal
Boil Volume: 7.5 gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.063

Vitals​

Original Gravity: 1.079
Final Gravity: 1.028
IBU (Tinseth): 33
BU/GU: 0.41
Color: 5.1 SRM

Mash​

Strike Temp — 171.5 °F
Temperature — 152 °F — 60 min

Malts (15 lb)​

13 lb (74.3%) — Briess Brewers Malt 2-Row — Grain — 1.8 SRM
2 lb (11.4%) — Briess Wheat White Malt — Grain — 2.3 SRM

Other (2 lb 8 oz)​

2 lb 8 oz (14.3%) — JD Carlson Oats, Flaked — Adjunct — 2.6 SRM

Hops (19.5 oz)​

0.5 oz (5 IBU) — Citra 13.3% — Boil — 5 min
0.5 oz (5 IBU) — El Dorado 13.8% — Boil — 5 min
0.5 oz (4 IBU) — Mosaic 11.6% — Boil — 5 min
2 oz (6 IBU) — Citra 13.3% — Aroma — 15 min hopstand
2 oz (6 IBU) — El Dorado 13.8% — Aroma — 15 min hopstand
2 oz (5 IBU) — Mosaic 11.6% — Aroma — 15 min hopstand
4 oz — Citra 13.3% — Dry Hop — day 2
4 oz — El Dorado 13.8% — Dry Hop — day 2
4 oz — Mosaic 11.6% — Dry Hop — day 2

Hopstand at 168 °F

Miscs​

7 g — Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) — Mash
2.05 g — Epsom Salt (MgSO4) — Mash
2 g — Gypsum (CaSO4) — Mash
40 ml — Phosphoric Acid 10% — Mash
4.29 g — Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) — Sparge
1.26 g — Epsom Salt (MgSO4) — Sparge
1.23 g — Gypsum (CaSO4) — Sparge
4.26 ml — Phosphoric Acid 10% — Sparge
0.62 g — Yeast Nutrients (WLN1000) — Boil — 15 min
1 items — Whirlfloc — Boil — 5 min

Yeast​

1 pkg — Imperial Yeast A38 Juice 76%
1.3 L starter
5.01 oz DME / 6.14 oz LME
397 billion yeast cells
1.04 million cells / ml / °P

Fermentation​

Primary — 69 °F — 10 days
Cold Crash — 38 °F — 2 days
Carbonation — 38 °F — 1 days
Carbonation: 2.4 CO2-vol

Water Profile​

Ca2+
121Mg2+
13Na+
12Cl-
181SO42-
90HCO3-
32

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I add a significant amount of rice hulls to my neipas due to the amount of oats. Mouthfeel, I'm not sure what to point at there. FG seems a bit high which would maybe produce a cloying flavor. I suppose mouthfeel could be corrected by adding some carapils, maybe 3%. Also the stuck mash could have played a role. Hop burn maybe result of hopping during fermentation but if the hop burn is gone after a week, well I wouldn't stress over it. Also lack of hop flavor and aroma could be the same reason. My opinion is to dry hop after a soft crash about 3 days before packaging.

 

[Chris112]

I add a significant amount of rice hulls to my neipas due to the amount of oats. Mouthfeel, I'm not sure what to point at there. FG seems a bit high which would maybe produce a cloying flavor. I suppose mouthfeel could be corrected by adding some carapils, maybe 3%. Also the stuck mash could have played a role. Hop burn maybe result of hopping during fermentation but if the hop burn is gone after a week, well I wouldn't stress over it. Also lack of hop flavor and aroma could be the same reason. My opinion is to dry hop after a soft crash about 3 days before packaging.

Thanks again.